Metal vs. plastic...A different slant

[loathar]

I know most people say change plastic wheels out for metal and that clubs require this, yadda, yadda, yadda...I've got about half of my cars converted to P2K's and the more I run them, the more annoyed I'm getting with the noise. I'm really torn between finishing the swap, or going back to a quality plastic wheels. I think someone said the Athearn plastic wheels worked really good. I'll never run any of my stuff on a club layout.
Just wondering if anyone ever went back to plastic because of the noise?

[SpaceMouse]

I happen to like the noise.

That said, one of the owners of a layout I operate on likes the plastic because they don't roll.

The co-efficient of friction is too high.

My layout is dead flat except one corner. You can't see the rise, but it is a hair higher than the rest of the layout. But the cars  with metal wheels know it and park themselves in the street once you release them, The plastic wheeled cars stay put.

[loathar]

I've heard that about the rolling too. Somebody on the Atlas forum was complaining about them not staying in place during switching moves. I'm only going to run short trains (15-20 cars max) so I don't need any super rollers. I was doing some painting the other night and every time the train went down the grade it was really loud and distracting.

[VAPEURCHAPELON]

I've heard that about the rolling too.

Not only the rolling alone, but plastic wheels will collect dirt much quicker than metal ones. I use metal wheels exclusively and know the P2k wheels. I sold them quickly as well as KADEE wheels. The noise comes from the uneven tire surface of these wheels. Try a NWSL or INTERMOUNTAIN wheel, these are turned, and are much more quietly than P2k. At least this is my personal experience.

I will never go back to plastic wheels.

[loathar]

I'll have to give the IM's a shot. I've only got P2K's and KD's right now. I never thought that there might be a sound difference between brands. Unfortunately my grades have that WS foam road bed which makes everything louder. I REALLY hate that stuff, but I'm not going to rip up 40' of track and replace it.

[twhite]

Loathar--

I've changed mine out to metal wheels because I have a California Basement layout (garage) and the metal wheels don't seem to leave as much 'debris' on the railheads.  I don't mind the noise, in fact I kind of like the clickety-clack--reminds me of the old days when rail sections were only about 40 feet instead of 40 miles, LOL.   And since I'm modeling that era, doesn't bother me at all. 

One thing I do agree with--metal wheelsets are much more sensitive to grades than plastic, which I've found a couple of times when one of my trains break in half (due to a car I forgot to retrofit with Kadee's) and they start whizzing back down the grade at breakneck pace.  And yes, they can be a lot more 'interesting' to spot on yard tracks if your trackage isn't almost perfectly level.   But I'd rather put up with that than having to clean the track continually every time I want to have an operating session in the garage. 

If my MR were in an insulated attic or a basement, I might have second thoughts about metal vs. plastic, but I've found that in my particular circumstance, metal is better. 

BTW, I use WS foam roadbed, myself.  What's the base you have UNDER the foam?  That could make a really BIG difference, if it's on raw plywood.   I've been using 2" extruded foam as an underbase and it seems to quiet the wheels considerbly. 

Tom

 

[on30francisco]

Besides their excellent running charateristics, I like the noise and clickity clack of metal wheels as they roll over the joints. You get some loud clickety clacks in Large Scale.

[loathar]

I've got concrete floor and metal roof, so the room is an echo chamber chamber chamber...

Even a light rain shower is enough to drive me out of there.

[GAPPLEG]

I can't relate to the noise problem , being totally deaf in the left ear and not very good in the right ( service injury 1965-69) But the dirt that collects on plastic just kills me , that's why I use metal only. Like mentioned above spotting good metal wheeled rolling stock can be interesting at the least. Had many a car find non-flat track real quick. And away they go .

[bogp40]

I've got concrete floor and metal roof, so the room is an echo chamber chamber chamber...

Even a light rain shower is enough to drive me out of there.

Sounds like it might be time for flooring and a ceiling, or at least insulation. Must be a tough spot to be in in Feb.

[Texas Zepher]

Not only the rolling alone, but plastic wheels will collect dirt much quicker than metal ones.

Just a thought.  If the dirt isn't collected on the plastic wheels - where is it?

[luvadj]

I went back to plactic....when the noise of the whole train is more than the loco, something has to change.

And why is it that clubs only want metal?...wouldn't it stand to reason that metal will attract crud faster and retain it longer?

 

[loathar]

I've got concrete floor and metal roof, so the room is an echo chamber chamber chamber...

Even a light rain shower is enough to drive me out of there.

Sounds like it might be time for flooring and a ceiling, or at least insulation. Must be a tough spot to be in in Feb.

Sounds like it's time for more $$$

I wonder if the dirt IS the plastic wheels wearing down because of the difference in hardness factors.

[larak]

I wonder if the dirt IS the plastic wheels wearing down because of the difference in hardness factors.

That actually is one of the theories.

I use IM, Kaydee and Atlas metal wheels and come to think of it, there is a slight difference in sound between cars.  Have to look further into that ...

With WS roadbed over 1" to 2" pink extruded over 3/8" plywood (I got a stack of CDX really cheap ) the sound is actually kind of pleasant to me. Not too loud, more "real" than the plastic and definitely less crud on the rails. Perhaps you can attach sound deadener (car audio) strips to the underside of the layout to lessen the vibration? Even just some more mass should help. Glue bricks to it ... not!

It is also MY theory that metal wheels help to burnish the rails (aka "gleem") and further cut down on dirt deposits. Can't prove it though.

 Karl 

[bogp40]

I went back to plactic....when the noise of the whole train is more than the loco, something has to change.

And why is it that clubs only want metal?...wouldn't it stand to reason that metal will attract crud faster and retain it longer?

 

It would stand to reason that friction and movement of the plastic will build a static charge much greater than that of a metal. I believe that with turned brass and a coating of nickle silver the charge would be nill.

[trainman6446]

Gotta love the sound of the metal wheels hitting the turnout frogs. Sounds like you are trackside. I agree that it is loud when using the pink foam but its a tradeoff im willing to make.

[Texas Chief]

I've got concrete floor and metal roof, so the room is an echo chamber chamber chamber...

Even a light rain shower is enough to drive me out of there.

Rain on a metal roof would put me to sleep in a New York minute!!

Dick

Texas Chief

 

[doctorwayne]

Most of my rolling stock has plastic wheels, but I won't change them out unless there's something actually wrong with them, such as out-of-round, or not perpendicular to the axle.  I don't notice any difference between plastic or metal as far as dirt goes, and I've never had to clean track in over 15 years. 

Wayne

[jfallon]

I've heard that about the rolling too. Somebody on the Atlas forum was complaining about them not staying in place during switching moves. I'm only going to run short trains (15-20 cars max) so I don't need any super rollers. I was doing some painting the other night and every time the train went down the grade it was really loud and distracting.

 

    I run on modules, which have no grades. It's interesting trying to couple "hands free" to a car with very free-wheeling trucks (the Tool is used religiously). Unless it's up against a bumper or a string of cars, you could chase it all the way around the layout!

                                                                                      John
 

[jblackwelljr]

Funny - I don't even notice the noise with metal wheels.  I installed IM metal wheelsets on some cheapie IHC passenger cars at the suggestion of a poster here - never regretted it and have since installed them on all my rolling stock.  It adds weight and just seems to have a more quality roll - does that make sense?   I wouldn't go back to plastic. 

[frisco kid]

In the last few months I have switched from plastice to IM metal and I have noticed a big increase in noise. My HO layout is in a main floor room with WS inclines and risers on MDF. I personally like the noise since it is more like the real thing. That is my two cents worth!!!

[BRAKIE]

I know most people say change plastic wheels out for metal and that clubs require this, yadda, yadda, yadda...I've got about half of my cars converted to P2K's and the more I run them, the more annoyed I'm getting with the noise. I'm really torn between finishing the swap, or going back to a quality plastic wheels. I think someone said the Athearn plastic wheels worked really good. I'll never run any of my stuff on a club layout.
Just wondering if anyone ever went back to plastic because of the noise?

Well,I will no longer change out to metal wheels..You see half my cars have metal wheels and the other half have plastic wheels and I found the metal wheels collect gunk just like the plastic wheels and locomotive wheels.So,if the cars come with metal wheels they will stay on the other hand if the cars come with crappy plastic wheels I will change 'em out to the Athearn trucks with plastic wheels except the cars that I plan on using at one club..These will recieve Athearn trucks with metal wheels..

 

[loathar]

Brakie-I thought that was you that was talking about the Athearn plastic wheels being good. I think that I'll try those IM's and see if that helps. If not, I might go back to plastic. It's not in the budget to get carpet, insulation and a drop ceiling right now.
Guess I'll just fix it by turning the stereo up louder.(That makes sense, right?)

[Soo Line fan]

I decided to do a test so I installed P2ks on all the cars currently on my small layout. Mostly BBs, some MDCs and Walthers.

I wanted to see if I noticed a difference with the track and also with buildup on the wheels. I did not notice much of a difference.

I like to run 2 trains continuously and the noise level was much higher. I was careful to clean the track prior to this test but the wheels still picked up dirt. When they got a coating of dirt they did quiet down however.

I switched back after having tracking problems with P2K wheelsets. I noticed that during backup moves with longer trains, the shorter length of the P2ks was causing the wheelsets to drop down in the Athearn BB trucks. This was causing derailments.

For now I will use plastic.

Jim

[BRAKIE]

Brakie-I thought that was you that was talking about the Athearn plastic wheels being good. I think that I'll try those IM's and see if that helps. If not, I might go back to plastic. It's not in the budget to get carpet, insulation and a drop ceiling right now.
Guess I'll just fix it by turning the stereo up louder.(That makes sense, right?)

 

Yuppers it was me..I do like the way those trucks roll and the newer Athearn trucks with metal wheels are just as free rollin'.

The IM's are excellent trucks and a good choice..As a side note have you considered using Atlas trucks?

[trainfan1221]

Any model train can make noise, even my N scale trains make a good amount of noise when they get rolling.  I am not well versed in metal versus plastic though have heard the argument for a long time.  But what's a little noise..after all real trains aren't quiet.

[Texas Zepher]

Gotta love the sound of the metal wheels hitting the turnout frogs. Sounds like you are trackside.

The tinny clicky click of tiny metal toy train wheels is nothing like the thunky thunk of a trackside experience.

[jackn2mpu]

I've got concrete floor and metal roof, so the room is an echo chamber chamber chamber...

Even a light rain shower is enough to drive me out of there.

Must be hell during a hail storm.

[aloco]

All of my cars have plastic wheels except for my Atlas 33,000 gallon 'whale body' tank cars.  The only reason why those cars kept their metal wheels is because they are of a larger diameter than the wheels on the rest of my rolling stock.