Help with structure lighting

[wm3798]

Go to Walmart the day after Christmas and buy a couple cheap strings of 100 lights. Each bulb works out to about 1.5 volts.

I cut up the strings, then run circuits of about 5 bulbs each off a 12v power supply. They last forever. They're also easy to change if you ever need to.

I do use Miniatronics bulbs for exterior applications..

like my train order stands, and the running lights on my turntable...

But for interior structure lighting, those Christmas lights can't be beat. The best part is that just about every year I have a string that I use outside go bad, so I don't even have to go out an buy a set special!
Lee

[markalan]

Tom,

I really like the lighting you've shown.  I was looking for information on exterior lighting techniques.  I did a search and found this thread and your posts.

Can you tell me the source of the lights and shades you used on them?  I'm looking at the Walthers Catalog and see a couple of possible options.  Yours look great and are just what I've been thinking about for the outside dock of my warehouse.

Thanks,

Mark 

[accord1959]

I am going to try using fibre optic strands to light my indoor and outdoor structures, street lights and vehicles. You can have LED's under your layout and run fibre optic cable to lamps, ceiling lights and even vehicle head and tail lights. With 1 LED you can run 10 or so different strands, and there is no need for colored lights cause all you have to do is use a marker of any color to mark the tip of the strand and it will emit that color.

I bought my fibre optic strands ( .7mm x 18 inch length ) from Monroe Perdu Studios, a pack of 25 strands for $4.00. They also sell some neat LED's that flicker to look like arc welding or campfire for a decent price.

Here is the link: http://www.monroeperdu.com/

[Autobus Prime]

I'll second the motion on the 2.5V mini Christmas tree lights.  The week after Christmas a few years ago I bought a couple of cases of them for peanuts - less than a penny a bulb, sockets included.  I use them in series strings of four across the 6.3V center-tap circuit of a cheap 3 amp 12.6V filament transformer, which gives them a nice yellowish color, not too bright.  At 70% of rated voltage they should last forever, but, if they don't, changing them is a snap - they just push in, no screw socket.

3T:

I'll third that motion, and I saw a Marklin layout at the train show whose owner would fourth it.  He even used the same mounting method as I have - cut apart the light string, drill a hole in the tabletop, and press the socket tightly into the drilled hole with the leads hanging below the table.  The same train show, of course, had scads of old $1 trainset packs that nobody wanted, that would have made excellent, dimmable lighting supplies.

 

[cwclark]

 I don't use LED's for lighting buildings because it's a linear light beam and is not seen well. What you can do is use incandecent 1.5 volt bulbs instead of 12 volt bulbs. Here is a circuit that has enough power to run about 6 - 1.5 volt lights (click to enlarge) The red and black wire at the bottom of the diagram connects to the 12 volt power supply

  chuck

[MisterBeasley]

MisterBeasley, were your building interiors downloaded or are they downsized photos of the real thing. I have tried to find some downloadable interirors but have only found a few without a lot of variety and the angles are wrong on so many of them.

PS. Love the Woolworth's store. Excellent job with a basic DPM kit.

Thanks!  Everything is downloaded.  I Googled for "grocery store shelves" and found the pictures, even the odd-angle side ones.  I've flipped some around, and re-sized them all.  (If you look closely, the left shelf of the Woolworths interior contains "giant" ketchup bottles, probably about 5 gallons in 1:87.)  For the grocery store itself, I printed up pairs of shelves, one upside down and one right-side up, with a blank space between them, on card stock.  Then I just cut them out, folded them and added "end caps" with a different shelf material.

The Woolworth sign, again, was Googled and downloaded.  I even took the sign color and used it to make the awning in MS Paint.  Again, I printed it on cardstock and folded along the dotted lines.

[tomikawaTT]

I'll second the motion on the 2.5V mini Christmas tree lights.  The week after Christmas a few years ago I bought a couple of cases of them for peanuts - less than a penny a bulb, sockets included.  I use them in series strings of four across the 6.3V center-tap circuit of a cheap 3 amp 12.6V filament transformer, which gives them a nice yellowish color, not too bright.  At 70% of rated voltage they should last forever, but, if they don't, changing them is a snap - they just push in, no screw socket.

To control where the light goes, aluminum foil is a positive light blocker - even better than black paint.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

[dstarr]

I use an old AT computer power supply for power of my structure lights.

I then pair two (2) two and a half to three volt mini Xmas bulbs together in a series circuit. The power leads are fed down through a predrilled hole at the structure location where they will be wired in a parallel circuit that connects all the structures with the low voltage side of the power supply (five volts). The next step is to simply place the structure at it's location. I've had over ninety bulbs connected in this fashion with no ill effect and have had only three bulbs burn out over a ten year period with the lights on 24/7. The only break they got was when hurricane Rita came through in '05.

That's gotta be the most economical way to go.  There are lots of old computer supplies kicking around.  My town dump has a pile of old PC's, from which power supplies could be extracted. Which are about as cheap as it gets.  The christmas tree lights are also cheap,  lots of polk have a dead string or two kicking around. Or buy some the day after Christmas. 

  In addition to painting the inside and sealing up light leaks, I will install the upstairs floor in two story buildings.  The view in thru the windows is better when a floor shows in the expected location, rather than emptiness.   

  Very useful.  Copper foil tape with stickum on one side.  You can then solder the bulb wires right to the foil, making for easy bulb change.  The foil tape can be stuck to the inside walls and won't show thru the windows.  Wires tend to make a Shelob sized spider web filling the inside of the building.  You can find it a good electronics places (forget Radio Shack) and sometimes at places that carry do-it-yourself doll house stuff.   

 

[tstage]

That looks very nice, Mike.  Thanks for the info.

Tom

[Anonymous]

 It is quite true that the common T1 LED is very directional and don't do well in structure lighting. 

However, the newer Surface Mount LEDs are great for structures. Their "top hat" shape make them easy to mount in places you can't put T1's or some incandsescents. They diffuse light nicely, almost as well as an incandescent bulb, and light a struture's rooms quite realistically.

The main drawback is soldering the wires to the small pads on the back - something that takes a steady hand (and a magnifying glass) but once you get the hang of it, it's east enough. (I'm 59 and don't have great eyesight and manage it.)

Here's a pic of my Hercules plant, lighted entirely with LEDs.

My favorite is a "frosted white" that mimics flourescent light, but the lens can be tinted with a Sharpie to almost any color or shade you want. I tint them a yellowish orange for house lights, use them straight for commercial lighting.

Mike Tennent

[jeffrey-wimberly]

I use an old AT computer power supply for power of my structure lights.

The first thing I do is paint the interior of the stucture black. Since the light level I use will be low I glaze the windows with Matte Finish.

I then pair two (2) two and a half to three volt mini Xmas bulbs together in a series circuit. The power leads are fed down through a predrilled hole at the structure location where they will be wired in a parallel circuit that connects all the structures with the low voltage side of the power supply (five volts). The next step is to simply place the structure at it's location. I've had over ninety bulbs connected in this fashion with no ill effect and have had only three bulbs burn out over a ten year period with the lights on 24/7. The only break they got was when hurricane Rita came through in '05.

[jecorbett]

MisterBeasley, were your building interiors downloaded or are they downsized photos of the real thing. I have tried to find some downloadable interirors but have only found a few without a lot of variety and the angles are wrong on so many of them.

PS. Love the Woolworth's store. Excellent job with a basic DPM kit.

[secondhandmodeler]

You could always ask old Sluggo!

Tatortot

[tstage]

Reese,

Here's a link to a good web site on basic electricity:

Basic Electricity 101

One of the guys here on the forum, Dave Loman, put it together.  It will help in learning a few of the basics and understanding concepts like the difference between wiring "in series" and wiring "in parallel".

Hope that helps...

Tom

[jblackwelljr]

Tator,

I've used Miniatronics 14v bulbs along with this power supply (only $20):

http://circuitspecialists.com/search.itml?icQuery=ps-28

All other advice given here is excellent.  Using a 14v bulb with a 12v power supply gives me a little more bulb-life and ensures I won't blow the bulb if I turn the power all the way up.  Works for me.

[tstage]

Reese,

I agree with MB and prefer incandescent lighting for both interior and exterior lighting of structures and buildings.  As MB stated, LEDs are directional and stark; whereas, incandescents are non-directional and have a "warmer" glow to them.

I used incandescents wired "in parallel" to light the interior and exterior of my NYC Freight depot below:

Click picture(s) to enlarge

When wiring "in parallel", I use slide or toggles switches to control my lighting so that I can turn lights or groups of lights on and off individually.  This allows me to change the overall look of a building and/or my layout in just a few flicks of a switch or two.

MBs suggestions of painting the inside of your styrene structures black and hidding the light sources are good ones.  Light-colored styrene is generally translucent - i.e. it allows light to travel through it and will "glow" when a light is placed behind it, if not painted.  Since black absorbs all colors, black paint is a terrific barrier to light.  Consequently, wood doesn't have the same characteristics as styrene.  So I've found that you don't have to paint the interior walls of wood structures like you do styrene.

As far as hiding light sources, objects and/or walls can hide these very well.  On my depot, the wires coming from each switch run up through the layout base underneath and up through the floor (at the corners) through painted brass tubing disguised as ventilation pipes.  The wires and lights are then suspended from the removable roof with black electrical tape.  (See and click on picture 3 above for details.)  With the wires hidden inside the tubing, the lighting is not visible through the windows from the outside.  (BTW: Tthe tubing doesn't need to be brass.  It can be styrene.  I just happen to have some lying around so that's what I used.)

Obviously, the less windows you have in your building or structure; the less you need to hide the lighting source and wires.  Outdoor lights, however, can be a little more challenging to disguise well.

Click picture(s) to enlarge

The light pole wires pictured above are actually part of the structure of the light pole itself.

The other thing you need to keep mind is how are you going to change you light bulbs when they burn out.  Most of my structures and building have removable roofs on them for this very purpose.

Light bulbs also come in various sizes and ratings; usually marked in volts (V) and milliamps (mA or 1/1000th of an amp) and given a life expectancy (rated in hours).  The lights in my depot are rated at 12V, 40mA (1/25th of an amp), and have a life expectancy of 5,000 hours.

One beauty of incandescent lighting is that you can run them at less than their peak voltage.  For instance, I use an old DC power pack (in my case, an MRC 1370 Rail Command with a big variable knob) to power my 12V depot lighting at ~8V*.  This gives it both a nice warm and inviting glow and will actually extend the life of the bulbs considerably because the bulbs generate less heat as they operate.  Even a cheap starter set power pack will work just fine for you in this way.

---

*CAUTION: Reese, if you use a power pack with a voltage output higher than your light bulbs voltage rating (e.g. 18V power pack and 12V bulbs), you can only turn up your power pack up to a certain level.  Otherwise, you'll blow you bulbs.

Either use a power pack with a lower voltage output than your light bulbs or be sure to either clearly mark the outside of your power pack or put a physical stop on it so that you (or someone else) don't accidentally "crank it up" and blow out all your lights.  It can happen.

---

I do like and prefer LEDs over incandescent bulbs for headlights in locomotives.  As mentioned above, an LED is very directional so that the beam is concentrated out through the lens more.  Also, LEDs run much cooler than incandescent bulbs, thereby you run less of a risk of cooking the styrene shell on your favorite locomotive.  Conversely, incandesent bulbs work and look better as a Mars lights.

Reese, I am by no means an electrical guru nor all that knowledgeable about wiring.  I've just managed to learn from books and discover and try things on my own over the past 3-1/2 years.  A good book or web site on some very basic electricity might be some time well spent and get you started on your lighting projects.  Perhaps some others can chime in on a few suggestions.

If it isn't obvious by my answers, I am quite fond of lighting because it adds such a visual dimension to a layout.  Even the addition of one or two lights is undeniable.

Anyhow, I hope that helps more than confuses... 

Tom

[MisterBeasley]

Well, I get the reference for your user name.  Good one.

I don't like LEDs for structure lighting, in contrast to some others.  LEDs are directional, and shoot a beam of light out one end.  For structure lighting, I prefer something more omnidirectional, like the old fashioned light bulb. I also like light bulbs for their color, as opposed to the glaring white of most LEDs.  Yes, incandescent bulbs take more power, but to me they give a more realistic glow inside the building.  Run them at a few volts less than their rating, and they will last a long time.

Yes to the "paint the insides black" suggestion, though.  Otherwise, your buildings will look like the Chernobyl Valley Railroad, all aglow from the inside, right through the walls.  Blocking off some of the windows is a good idea, too.

Take a look at the size and placement of the windows.  If you've got big windows that can be seen from your viewing area, you should consider modelling some sort of interior.  For very small windows, or windows broken up into a lot of small panes, it's hardly worth it to put anything but a plain bulb inside.

I don't like to see the bulb directly, though.  I try to position it so that only reflected light comes out.  You might place it against the wall where there are no windows, or close to the ceiling.  Or, you might put a blocking piece of cardboard or plastic between the bulb and the windows so no direct light gets through.  Be careful not to put the bulb too close to a plastic wall or roof though.  The bulbs can get hot enough to melt plastic.

This grocery store has big windows and a detailed interior.  The bulb is against the wall, and can't be seen directly.

From the outside, it looks like this:

This one uses a base-mounted light, but blocked by store shelves:

The shelves, backgrounds and walls of both of these were printed on my computer, by the way.  Cheap, easy and effective.

[AntonioFP45]

Check these links out.  Some good info on them:

 http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/748165/ShowPost.aspx

http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/795486/ShowPost.aspx

[jecorbett]

I suggest you paint the inside walls with a base coat of black especially if your stuctures are made of thin styrene. Otherwise, the light will penetrate the walls of your structure and resemble a lantern. Also determine which room(s) of your structure you would like to have lit. Usually, you don't see structures with every light in the building turned on so divide the interior space into sections so you can light just the ones you want. Also, if you light a room, it almost demands that you detail the interior (at least the rooms that are lit) unless you want to use curtains or shades over the windows. With an unlit structure, you don't really see much inside the windows unless the building has a lot of glass. With lights on, you'll be able to see everything inside and if all you can see is an empty shell, you'll lose a lot of the effect you were striving for by lighting them in the first place.

I have decided to make interior lighting one of those fine details that I can put off until the rest of the layout is reasonably complete. I can live with structures that are dark on the inside. The structures I plan to light will be glued gently in place so they can be easily lifted and retrofitted with lights and interior details.

[ndbprr]

at this point in time I think I would use LEDs to light structures.  They use far less amperage than  bulbs and probably won't burn out in your lifetime.  If you hav never used them there is a small learning curve but they have the added advantage of not generating any heat.

[tatorsalad]

I need help with the lighting in my structures.  Can anyone give me some tips.