UP madness continues

[Jetrock]

The concept of "fair use" seems to be lost on many folks these days.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman

Regarding the question of why don't they restore a DD40X, hello? The UP has had the UP 6936 in excursion and special service for years. Its based out of Chian with the rest of the heritage fleet.

Dave H.

Cool. I didn't know that. I wish I could go to Cheyenne............

[Anonymous]

The part about paintings is true (see UP's website www.up.com for more info) . The rest is just junk.

[dehusman]

Regarding the question of why don't they restore a DD40X, hello? The UP has had the UP 6936 in excursion and special service for years. Its based out of Chian with the rest of the heritage fleet.

Dave H.

[Anonymous]

I'm amazed at how many of you guys are buying this story. Think for a second. If it were true, NO ONE could ever write a book or article with photos about ANY corporation with trademarked logos. You know, like Disney. Or IBM. Or Ford.

The original post a a load of crap. It was intended to get people riled up and is doing just that.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by JDCoop

UP will do as they wish (as allowed by rulings by courts, governmental agencies, etc.). Unfortunately, as a consumer of model products produced and sold by non-UP companies, they probably couldn't care less. It is true that if we don't buy UP logo model railroad products that manufactures will eventaully quit making them, but what impact does this have on UP? With a company their size, the licensing fees are minuscule. I don't think they really care if we boycott boxcars made by a non-UP owned company. However, they do care about 2 things. One, their shipping customers, and two, their stockholders. Now, most of us probably aren't and never will be shipping customers, but anyone can buy UP stock (provided they have money to do so.) Why don't we, the modelers, the model manufacturers, the model manufacturer employees, and all of our families start buying UP stock. We wouldn't have to takeover the company, but if enough of their stockholders started giving them flack about their attitute (and fees), they are more likely to listen to stockholders than modelers. The only downside is that if UP doesn't perform well, it's a lousy investment and we lose more than we gain. It's just a thought (however good or bad it may be).

UP stock costs around $60 so it would be hard to do that.

[JDCoop]

UP will do as they wish (as allowed by rulings by courts, governmental agencies, etc.). Unfortunately, as a consumer of model products produced and sold by non-UP companies, they probably couldn't care less. It is true that if we don't buy UP logo model railroad products that manufactures will eventaully quit making them, but what impact does this have on UP? With a company their size, the licensing fees are minuscule. I don't think they really care if we boycott boxcars made by a non-UP owned company. However, they do care about 2 things. One, their shipping customers, and two, their stockholders. Now, most of us probably aren't and never will be shipping customers, but anyone can buy UP stock (provided they have money to do so.) Why don't we, the modelers, the model manufacturers, the model manufacturer employees, and all of our families start buying UP stock. We wouldn't have to takeover the company, but if enough of their stockholders started giving them flack about their attitute (and fees), they are more likely to listen to stockholders than modelers. The only downside is that if UP doesn't perform well, it's a lousy investment and we lose more than we gain. It's just a thought (however good or bad it may be).

[Anonymous]

I can certainly understand them trying to make some more money, but this is going a little to far. If they have a ton of money, why don't they restore a Big Boy or a DDA40X, build more turntables and straighten more curves? Sounds crazy to me.

[Anonymous]

In regards to a railroad's equipment being used in a movie being bad publicity, I am familiar with a simmilar case. Sometime in the mid-90's UP won a lawsuit against MTV for using a UP train in a music video that innaccurately portrayed engineers. I really don't know any of the details besides that, though. Maybe someone else on here does.

[MAbruce]

Unless the author and publisher are identified, I don't think it should be given any credibility.

After the events involving UP and licensing recently, they are just too easy a target for anyone with an axe to grind against them.

Folks, this is the way Urban Legends are born – by passing on a story without stating sources. Do they teach the basic principals about properly footnoting (identifying) sources in high school anymore?? Or did we snooze through that class? [:p]

[Anonymous]

I live 50 feet from the UP main line going through Iowa. The tracks split this town in half. So IF this is ALL true than will they be putting toll booths at each crossing and charging me to use their tracks to get from one side of town to the other. I don't think this is going to go real far. I'm a Packer fan and a Green Bay hat costs more then a hat with nothing on it. We probably should have seen this coming sooner or later. UP just happens to be the first to do it. I'm not defending them at all, they don't need me. All I care about is keeping my hobby costs down.

I'm no fan of UP. My "empire" has aquired UP and is repainting all their locomotives.

Thanks,
Jeremy

I would say go Packers but our QB choked

[Anonymous]

jez oh petes. i can't belive this. it does sound made up.

[Anonymous]

Avondaleguy makes a very strong case. Issues regarding liability knows no middle ground. It's black and white with little in common as to what is reasonable. This is very much a paper excercise. Some will profit by it handsomely and for all the wrong reasons. Just look at the time period it takes for litigation to work its way through the courts. Justice cannot be afforded by the common man.

[Anonymous]

I was wondering if we are getting to caried away with this. Railfaning and Model railroading are pretty much the only hobbies that people use logos of major companys. If Joes Model Railroad Co. wants to make McDonalds, NFL, and Hershey train sets and BNSF, Norfolk Southern, and CSX sets you can guess which three will cost more.
[2c][2c][2c]

[Anonymous]

Consider, though, that the extremes to which UP is going (whether this specific case is urban legend or not) are brought about by our tort liability judicial system's vulnerability to frivolous lawsuits. I highly doubt that UP is seeking to find a way to license their image and make money off of it- railroads don't do this, they operate the other way around, where their advertised image attracts business to their rails and loads to their trains. The clamp-down on corporate logos and images is anti-advertising, so I suspect that the root of the problem must be with some type of perceived exposure to liability. I'm not sure how it would work, but maybe the thinking is that if a train in a movie (look at the trailers for the movie "Torque" where a motorcycle jumps in front of an E-unit) exhibits their logo while unsafe practices are occuring, then it constitutes an endorsement by the company (UP) of those unsafe practices. Some knucklehead attempts the stunt, gets creamed, then sues UP for endorsing the activity. Similar thing could happen with their logo used in a published work, where UP has no control over the content; someone might claim that statements in the book represent those of UP. But of course, common sense screams out loudly against such stupidity; the point is that our legal system permits anyone to try and argue any lame thing they want, and with UP the settlement stakes can be substantial enough to merit an attempt, even if the legal argument is guaranteed to fail.

I just hope that UP will find a way to permit usage of their logo, perhaps with boilerplate disclaimers. I don't think they are solely to blame, with all the cries of corporate greed. It's greed, yes, but not on UP's part.

[Anonymous]

I think they've really crossed the line this time!!!!!! This is going to the total extremes! There's such a thing as being greedy, but this is way beyond that!

[Anonymous]

This is horrible!! Now this UP junk is being passed on to Espee!! I hope Norfolk Southern buys UP (gasp!)!![:(!][:(!][:(!]

[Anonymous]

Sounds like another 'urban legend' in the making. IE. a total fabrication by some twit with way way too much time on his hands. Second generation posts with no varifiable names or organizations cited = pure BS IMO.

Randy

[AltonFan]

Something doesn't sound right about this...

Assuming this post is truthful, ISTM that the publisher is being spooked by the recent news coverage of UP's trademark policies, and overreacting. I find it difficult to believe that UP would be able to successfully mount any legal action on what amounts to a history book. It sounds like the publisher "isn't taking any chances", and applying a worst case situation approach to prevent trouble that may never come.

According to my contacts, UP is actually losing this battle, and the courts and the regulators are not letting them reregister many of the old trademarks (many of which they never acquired in the first place).

[FJ and G]

This correspondence from a railroad/rail history author (posted on another forum):

"I received notice from my publisher today that the UP has decided (as of Jan. 1st) to take this trademark stupidity one step
further and apply it to all future books, publications and even to railroad artwork.

"As a result I was told that although my next book is on the T&NO (which officially ceased to exist in the early 1960's) that
we cannot use any SP logos anywhere in the publication other than those on equipment in photos.

"This means that no SP logo will be allowed in this historic book featuring the T&L lines of the SP!

"In addition we can not use any T&NO timetable, menu, etc. if it displays a SP logo although these public relation items were
openly handed out for free by the T&NO during the 1940's, 1950's and 1960's.

"The same goes for the Katy book. No MKT logos can be used. Period.

"And now for the next step. We also can no longer use any of John Winfield's artwork on the cover of any book(s) if it shows a
train, engine or equipment displaying any of these trademarked logos. Now although this would have no bearing on the
proposed artwork on the T&NO book, it will keep me from commissioning John do a painting of the TEXAS SPECIAL for use on
the cover of the Katy book.

"In addition to this (and I haven't had a chance to tell John this yet), John will no longer be allowed to run and sell prints of any
UP related items. This madness will also apply to original commissioned works of art if they use or show any of these
trademarked logos.

"Now please keep in mind that the UP has personally stepped up in the past and commissioned and or purchased several of
John's paintings through the years, several of which currently hang in their corporate offices in Omaha.

"Also keep in mind that two years ago the UP opened up their own photo archives and supplied Morning Sun with almost 250
photos of SP trains for a book on the SP. These same rules were not inforced at that time and the UP openly encouraged
publishing companies like these to feature books on the UP and its merger partners.

"I ask everyone to take a few minutes and think over what is transpiring here. This is nothing more than corporate greed or
legal stupidity on a unprecedented scale and something seriously needs to be done. I encourage everyone who feels that this
is wrong to contact the UP, any of their shippers, etc. and voice their opposition to this madness."