Using the space UNDER the layout

[joe-daddy]

I see you have different criteria than I do!  I suppose I should have read that more thoroughly before I posted.  My reply was sort of directed toward everyone, just in case anyone else was thinking along the same line as I am.

Brad 

Brad,

My main point is that I don't want areas of my layout that are inaccesible or difficult to get to.  Cabinets permanetly mounted would pose such a problem to me.  Certainly they can be made portable, removeable etc.

Joe 

[twcenterprises]

I currently have a 4x8 that's 42" high, and has a few plastic totes underneath.  I'm planning an around the walls setup in my adjacent 11x14 foot room.  I plan to use standard kitchen cabinets underneath (or maybe custom built) since my lowest-level staging yard is at a proposed height of about 32-36 or so inches.  I could (and probably will) omit any framing on this level, I should think the cabinets should support the plywood nicely.  Wiring details have yet to be finalized.  The only foreseeable problem might be installing Tortoise machines for the turnouts, that will be addressed prior to construction.

Brad 

Brad,

note my criteria 2, 7, 9, 10

 

My new design has these criteria

1. modular design no section larger than 30" X 72"
2. stuff underneath is portable or moveable for maintenance access
3. modules next to a wall limited to 24" deep
4. ALL wiring in a channel behind front facia
5. modules connected with bolts and nuts not screws
6. 2X2 legs with 5/16 adjusting bolts
7. no use of the wall for support for anything but the backdrops, modules not attached to the wall.
8. minimum height is 50"
9. cabinets under layout either moveable or easy access to the bottom of the layout
10. no blind inaccessible spots under the layout
11. no hidden track, after all the prototype has no hidden track. . . (wrong Joe!)
    

 Just my 2 cents,

Joe 

I see you have different criteria than I do!  I suppose I should have read that more thoroughly before I posted.  My reply was sort of directed toward everyone, just in case anyone else was thinking along the same line as I am.

Brad 

[joe-daddy]

Maybe if I share a few more pictures you will too!

Joe

 

 

 

 

[perry1060]

It was once used by my small children and their friends for a clubhouse. Now I use it to store family treasures, comic books, family heirlooms, and leprechaun traps.

 

 

 

 

[Dallas Model Works]

I have hidden staging under the layout (and some boxes with stored stuff). I'd post a pic but the layout room is a shambles right now!

 

[JBCA]

According to a recent issue of MR we park our Corvettes under the layout.

 As for me, I would have a hard time getting my Honda Civic in the basement.

[R. T. POTEET]

You are absolutely right there jacon12, there is an awful lot of space which can be used for storage under a layout.

When the first Home Despot opened in my area I went on a Grand Opening Browse and managed to browse myself into the purchase of couple of a screwdriver-assembly two shelf unit labeled as a kitchen cabinet. I modified it into a five-shelf unit and put casters under it to make it mobile. I went back at a later date to buy another of these kitchen cabinets only to discover that they had metamorphosed themselves from $29.95 to $59.95 and I left them alone at that price.

On a later layout I took a standard 30 X 96 fold-away table which I was utilizing as a workbench, built a roll-around frame for the table legs, and slid it under the layout. I have some undecided feelings about this latter program; it was a good idea and things worked out okay but I needed a higher layout platform because, with that roll-around frame, the height of my workbench raised to 34 inches and the space between workbench and benchwork was too short; I had to be careful of what I left on the workbench before sliding it under the layout.
This idea of a roll-away workbench is a good one and I would perhaps utilize it again but then I have raised my layout height from 42 to 54 inches.

On my most recent layout I bought a couple of three-drawer screwdriver-assembly chest-of-drawers from Wal-Mart and used those.

I, too, read the Underhill article of two years past and was quite impressed with his ideas I toured a layout during the '84 convention in Kansas City that had built-in under-layout storage and it was very impressive; this was a nationally prominent layout that had had considerable hobby press exposure but the owner ask us not to talk about what he did if he experienced any kind of under benchwork troubles because, he said, he didn't want to break into tears with visitors in the room. That point was well taken and it was the prime reason why I installed casters on those kitchen cabinets referenced earlier.

I have started to build my layouts at chest height and this opens up potential for future use of the under-layout space. Many years ago one of the hobby magazines - it was RMC I believe - had an article about buiding a roll-away storage cabinet. It used a full sheet of 1/2 inch ply and there was a cutting diagram accompanying the article. The unit not only had a back but also a door; the interior was partitioned into shelves, some of which were of the sliding variety. There was an large open space on one side which had an adjustable shelf allowing one to store taller items. Woodworking magazines - most recentlty Family Handyman -  have had numerous articles on rollout shelves and I am giving consideration to building some of these roll-away storage cabinets and installing rollout shelves in each one to facilitate access.

Enjoyed the fact that photos accompanied so many of the responses to this topic.

[ocrr]

My goal is to not have anything under the layout. I am close now. Fortunately, I do have some other storage space so my approach is possible.

My layout fills a 36 by 40 finished room.  The lowest point is 50" high.  One long side is against a wall, the rest is free standing. Track and wiring are done, or would be if I didn't keep getting new ideas. Scenery is about 50% done

One reason I don't want anything under the layout is there is always another reason to get under the layout to do something. If something doesn't need fixing or checking, I dream up just a little, little change to my track and all I have to do is....you get the picture. Changing and improving things is part of the fun of the hobby for me so I don't want to be stymied by moving stuff all the time.

The second reason is appearance. Clear open space under the layout reduces visual clutter that distracts from viewing the layout. Fascia extends 9 inches below the track level and is painted dark green (I model Oregon). The carpet is a light tan. The combination of a dark border and nothing underneath make the layout almost "float" in mid air. It's the same effect as open wall space around a picture concentrating attention on the picture.

I have made an exception along the side of the layout below my yard. There I have attached sliding shelves to the layout legs to hold rolling stock. This was a simple project with plywood and drawer slides. In another location, I have built some short shelves for DCC components and power packs.

Keeping the area under the layout clear encourages me to keep the layout room clean and discourages me was accumulating a lot of stuff I know I'll never use.

[joe-daddy]

Howdy, Joe.

Your first ten points are very good, and valid for you.  I especially agree with #4 (all my wiring is routed inside the steel stud that serves as an L girder, open side facing the aisle and easy to access while sitting in a chair in the aisleway.)

OTOH, I take issue with your #11.  If you really think the prototype has no hidden track, go to New York City and take a stroll along Park Avenue north of 45th Street.  Not a railroad track in sight.  Then get a copy of the track plan for Grand Central Terminal.  Park Avenue is a bridge, floating above a huge expanse of very complex specialwork!  (If you meant, "Not hidden from the engineer," Mister Beasley's TV-equipped subway car is the answer for that.)

IMHO, keeping all of the electricals right along the edge of the layout is a key to under-layout space utilization.  Even if it's on casters, moving a big hunk of cabinetry can get old if you have to do it on a regular basis.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with hidden staging)

Chuck,

Guilty as charged! Living in the open expanses of the west most of my life has jaded me on that one!  The Prototypes certainly do burry them!

As for me, though, been there, tried that and like the wiring, I want to be able to maintain my layout easily and without raising my blood pressure!

 

Thanks again,

joe 

[tomikawaTT]

Howdy, Joe.

Your first ten points are very good, and valid for you.  I especially agree with #4 (all my wiring is routed inside the steel stud that serves as an L girder, open side facing the aisle and easy to access while sitting in a chair in the aisleway.)

OTOH, I take issue with your #11.  If you really think the prototype has no hidden track, go to New York City and take a stroll along Park Avenue north of 45th Street.  Not a railroad track in sight.  Then get a copy of the track plan for Grand Central Terminal.  Park Avenue is a bridge, floating above a huge expanse of very complex specialwork!  (If you meant, "Not hidden from the engineer," Mister Beasley's TV-equipped subway car is the answer for that.)

IMHO, keeping all of the electricals right along the edge of the layout is a key to under-layout space utilization.  Even if it's on casters, moving a big hunk of cabinetry can get old if you have to do it on a regular basis.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with hidden staging)

[joe-daddy]

I currently have a 4x8 that's 42" high, and has a few plastic totes underneath.  I'm planning an around the walls setup in my adjacent 11x14 foot room.  I plan to use standard kitchen cabinets underneath (or maybe custom built) since my lowest-level staging yard is at a proposed height of about 32-36 or so inches.  I could (and probably will) omit any framing on this level, I should think the cabinets should support the plywood nicely.  Wiring details have yet to be finalized.  The only foreseeable problem might be installing Tortoise machines for the turnouts, that will be addressed prior to construction.

Brad 

Brad,

note my criteria 2, 7, 9, 10

 

My new design has these criteria

1. modular design no section larger than 30" X 72"
2. stuff underneath is portable or moveable for maintenance access
3. modules next to a wall limited to 24" deep
4. ALL wiring in a channel behind front facia
5. modules connected with bolts and nuts not screws
6. 2X2 legs with 5/16 adjusting bolts
7. no use of the wall for support for anything but the backdrops, modules not attached to the wall.
8. minimum height is 50"
9. cabinets under layout either moveable or easy access to the bottom of the layout
10. no blind inaccessible spots under the layout
11. no hidden track, after all the prototype has no hidden track. . . (wrong Joe!)
    

 Just my 2 cents,

Joe 

[twcenterprises]

I currently have a 4x8 that's 42" high, and has a few plastic totes underneath.  I'm planning an around the walls setup in my adjacent 11x14 foot room.  I plan to use standard kitchen cabinets underneath (or maybe custom built) since my lowest-level staging yard is at a proposed height of about 32-36 or so inches.  I could (and probably will) omit any framing on this level, I should think the cabinets should support the plywood nicely.  Wiring details have yet to be finalized.  The only foreseeable problem might be installing Tortoise machines for the turnouts, that will be addressed prior to construction.

Brad 

[Walter Clot]

I have 13 of the Wal-Mart rolling cabinets.  They are 15 x22 inches and about 27 inches high with three drawers each.  They are white which helps make a nice appearance.  The only draw back is that if you put anything on top of them or heavy items in them, they sag a little and sometimes are a little difficult to open or shut.  I got most of mine when they were on sale for about $12 to $18  each.

I keep the rolling stock and engines that I am not using in them.  I sort the rolling stock by type, box, tank etc.  The box cars are sorted by road name (the ones I have a lot of) or area, ie:  eastern, central or western roads.  I also use them to store all other supplies, tools, kits to build and item for repair.

Having them on casters makes it easy to clean the area behind them from time to time.

I like all the other ideas and pictures all you guys posted.  This was/is a good post!

Walter

[joe-daddy]

You surely don't run the saws and sanders in the same room with the trains... the dust factor would be horrible.

SNIP

Lee 

 Lee,

Actually I do.  A good shop vacuum with a  clean filter (clean often) and tools that have dust collection ports built into them do a really good job of keeping the dust down.  I am also looking for an air filter to hand in the room and work to keep dust more under control.   All of my tools, including my table saw are extremely portable.  When I have a lot of sawing to do, I wheel the saw to the patio and short circuit the dust issues.  The biggest dust machine and the hardest to manage are the belt sanders!  I had to get rid of one for a built in dust port and I only used my portable belt sander without the vacuum hose attached one time. . .

Best!

Joe 

 

[wm3798]

You surely don't run the saws and sanders in the same room with the trains... the dust factor would be horrible.

On my layout, the first thing one finds below the trains...

is more trains!

This is a fairly good example of what goes on below decks, though.  You can see the black plastic storage bins in the lower left, this is for excess rolling stock.  The smaller white bin holds freight car loads, and markers for the yard operator.  The big blue dresser is, well a dresser... my son is sharing space with the railroad while we renovate his bedroom...

My layout is in what was the attic storage room, so under-layout storage was part of the negotiated settlement with the Real Estate Superintendent.  Since the ceiling slopes under the roof, the storage area below the layout is actually twice as deep as the layout itself.

You can sort of see that above.

I tried to size the space to accommodate two large storage tubs stacked, but every inch I raise the layout, I lose 2" of layout space.  So now it holds a large one, with a flatter one on top.

The good news is when push comes to shove, I can pull everything out to work on wiring or fix a switch machine.

 

Lee 

[leighant]

I have a huge problem making space.  I just tore out an old layout and the room is also completely filled with stuff.  I have built several homemade shelving units over the years.  I have one 4 feet wide, floor to ceiling, with another 4 foot wide 4 high beside. 

I now want to run around the room with a shelf layout, 14 inches to 2 feet or so wide.  Can't do that with a floor-to-ceiling bookcase on one side, so I am taking the top half of bookcase down.  I will shift to another side of room, where there is now a 2x3 portable layout in a box sitting on end.  The layout will run at 4 1/2 to 5 feet elevation above floor- above bottom half of windows and above LOTS of storage.  (But will it be enuff for all my stuff?)

I will have foot deep bookcases against the walls underneath the Mallory hidden staging (top of plan drawing) and against the wall underneath the Demara open staging and the export grain elevator (left side of drawing).  On both of those sides, I will also have a foot deep rollout storage under the layout, which I can remove to get to the bookcases.

On the sulphur dock, bulk cargo dock and open dock space (bottom of the plan), I will have some 18" to 22" deep old desks and tables with boxes and etc. piled under them.

The causeway bridge will be on a rollaway section, open for duckunder when layout is in operation, expected to be rolled out of way whenever layout is not running, for access to room and especially to closet at lower right corner.  No storage allowed under causeway.  (I hope)

 

 

[ngartshore350]

I have some shelves in the narrow areas for general storage, tools, paint, etc (room to still get to areas under the layout if necessary!). But recently I picked up a 7-drawer tool chest to fit under the wider areas. It is on wheels so that I can pull it out of the way if I need access under the layout.

I am going to use the tool chest to store locomotives and rollingstock. I have yet to line the drawers with some type of partitioning.

Regards,

Nige.

[joe-daddy]

It is really a good problem to have, do I want a larger layout or do I want a separate shop?  I had a nice 15 X 17 shop next to my 11 x 16 train room.  Next to the shop was my 14 X 18 office.

I don't know why I took so long to make a decision.  I had continued to buid my version 2 layout while thinking about it, which meant that I just had more good work to dismantle when I started over.

 

I ripped out the walls between the 3 rooms giving me a room generally 43 X 17 for my layout. The big issue had been my workshop, what do I do?  The shop tools now rest under my layout and I put the layout at 51" high.  My table saw, chop saw, bandsaw, drill press, sanders, tool boxes, computer systems and work benches are located under the layout.  John Widmar's layout uses about the same strategy.  

Ultimately, I hope to have the underlayout areas to be behind cabinet doors and wainscoating.  Some nice ideas from MRR show a number of strategies.  I am currently using heavy black plastic for 'curtains'.  I got the idea from a website or magazine somewhere.  Actually I am more pleased with the result than I ever imagined.

More as I get further along.

By the way, Great thread!

Joe 

 

[stebbycentral]

Several years back (August 2005, to be exact) MR ran an article on "the ideal train room".  The author, John Underhill, described how he supported his layout on full partitions that effectively closed in the underside of the layout for a finished appearance.  The area under the layout became a series of tunnels, complete with lighting, carpeting, and access ports to allow for work on the under-table wiring.

The article impressed me enough that I decided to retrofit my layout in a similar fashion.  Since the backside of the layout was already supported by hangars connected to the basement wall, I only had to replace the supports holding up the front side. So I built three 36-inch high partition walls out of 2 x 4 's which I covered with panneling to match the rest of the basement.  There are two openings that allow access under the layout. A couple of under-cabinet flourescent lights provide illumination.  And the floor under the layout is covered with thick rubber tiles of the type sold in hardware stores for use in garages, laundry, and exercise rooms.

It's a surprisingly pleasant place to work, when you have to go there.  And it also is a great place for storage because there are not a lot crossbeams and supports getting in the way.

 

 

[Don Z]

he used a dado bit and put a slot in the frong 

And if you've ever had your frong slotted you know just how painful that can be...

I'm a firm believer in shop safety so I'm happy to report my frong has never been slotted!

Don Z.

[mononguy63]

he used a dado bit and put a slot in the frong 

And if you've ever had your frong slotted you know just how painful that can be...

[jeffers_mz]

My layout is on castors to allow access to the back edge. I hung a fair sized shelf from the benchwork, so it will move with the benchwork, and it holds the subwoofer, a PC, monitor and keyboard for sound samples, and 3 drawer Tupperware type containers for rolling stock and all kinds of other stuff, for about $3 each at Wal-mart. 

If you have any space issues in your abode at all, even outside, you owe it to yourself to have a female give you a guided tour of Wal-mart's space utilization aisles. 

It'll change your life.

 

 

[mondotrains]

I buy those 6-drawer and 4-drawer plastic cabinets available at office supply stores that cost around $20.00 each on sale.  They have plastic castors on the bottom so they can be rolled around.  They are only about 26" high and therefore will fit under most layouts.  I store just about everything in them under the layout including vehicles, light poles, cast plaster rocks, etc.  Next to my workbench, I have a couple more, one on each side of the bench, where I keep all my stuff like my airbrush , paints, couplers, chalks, sheet plastic, unpainted figures, all kinds of electrical supplies like bulbs and wire and just about anything I need for the hobby. 

Hope this helps.

Mondo

 

[lvanhen]

Great post!  I presently have a 4x8 that has a bunch of Rubermaid Totes full of rolling stock & locos.  Next year, when I move, I plan on getting a few drawer units from Ikea.  They have units that are about a 12" wide, 18" deep, 3' high, and have drawers about 3" deep - looks ideal for rolling stock & anything else! They will be on casters so the wiring etc will be accessable.

[trainboy414]

he used a dado bit and put a slot in the frong and put a lip in the bottom as far as i can tell

Terry,

The reason I asked was I'm curious about the construction of the drawers. It almost looks like the bottom of the drawer is dovetailed into the sides of the drawers, yet I don't see dovetails at the rear of the drawer....just wondering.

Don Z.

[mononguy63]

I was the beneficiary when my sister remodeled her kitchen and received her old cabinets which fit perfectly under the benchwork.

Here's an older shot

Somewhat more recent view.

 

Note that other under-layout space has become storage for no-longer-needed-but-indispensible baby toys. Not visible are other cabinets with my rolling stock boxes. There's still more room that remains unallocated - it's pretty amazing the amount of floor space you capture that can be used.

Jim

[dinwitty]

 

since I am doing a shelf style layout, its ..SHELVES!! all over the place and pretty much packed.

I change it so often to morph the areas to the layout I am designing. 

I am getting the space I will start the layout opened up to work on it, its quite different from this photo now. 

[Don Z]

Terry,

The reason I asked was I'm curious about the construction of the drawers. It almost looks like the bottom of the drawer is dovetailed into the sides of the drawers, yet I don't see dovetails at the rear of the drawer....just wondering.

Don Z.

[C&O Fan]

Truly a nice piece of work

Terry,

Do you have another shot of that drawer? Is that a pickled finish on the red oak?

Don Z.

Only this one

You're asking the wrong person i'm not sure what he used

all i know is it's very smooth

as are all the joints

I'll ask him