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Planning/Listing/Locomotives -- Full of questions about a 4x8

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  • Member since
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  • From: Detroit, Michigan
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Posted by Soo Line fan on Wednesday, October 10, 2007 11:54 AM

 Hawks05 wrote:


I figured the SD40-2 wouldn't be bad at all, but the SD60 would be pushing my limits. Well that makes me feel like I'll be buying a couple Athearn RTR Canadian Pacific SD40-2's now within the coming weeks hopefully, maybe a large Soo SD60.

Do you have any photos of your current or past layout with the Soo power running? Or know of any Soo websites with photos?

Sorry but I do not yet own a digital camera.

What I did on the Kato was to use Kadee extended shank couplers. Later I switched to regular length "whisker" couplers. They have more lateral play due to the lack of the metal spring. This kept them coupled to cars with the tight radius. I used them on the P2K SD 60s as well.

I cannot comment on the Athearn models.

Jim

Jim

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Posted by twcenterprises on Wednesday, October 10, 2007 2:36 AM

Athearn Blue Box SD40-2's will go around 22" curves no problem.  Unsure about 18" curves, will check when I find mine (eventually).  I think they will handle #4 turnouts not problem.

I don't have any SD60's, can't answer that one. 

Brad

EMD - Every Model Different

ALCO - Always Leaking Coolant and Oil

CSX - Coal Spilling eXperts

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Posted by Hawks05 on Tuesday, October 9, 2007 10:34 PM
 Soo Line fan wrote:

 Hawks05 wrote:

Still wondering if getting that SD40-2 or SD60 would be stretching my limits on that small 4x8?

My first layout was based on the SOO using a 4x8 with 18r curves. I ran Kato SD40-2s and P2K SD60s all day with no derailments. I had a choice of not running my favorite SOO engines or running them with a little overhang. I chose to run them and was glad I did. Big Smile [:D]

Jim



I figured the SD40-2 wouldn't be bad at all, but the SD60 would be pushing my limits. Well that makes me feel like I'll be buying a couple Athearn RTR Canadian Pacific SD40-2's now within the coming weeks hopefully, maybe a large Soo SD60.

Do you have any photos of your current or past layout with the Soo power running? Or know of any Soo websites with photos?
  • Member since
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Posted by Soo Line fan on Tuesday, October 9, 2007 8:35 PM

 Hawks05 wrote:

Still wondering if getting that SD40-2 or SD60 would be stretching my limits on that small 4x8?

My first layout was based on the SOO using a 4x8 with 18r curves. I ran Kato SD40-2s and P2K SD60s all day with no derailments. I had a choice of not running my favorite SOO engines or running them with a little overhang. I chose to run them and was glad I did. Big Smile [:D]

Jim

Jim

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Posted by Hawks05 on Tuesday, October 9, 2007 8:09 PM
To add to my long string of recent posts, just got out of class, I would like to ask what a standard diorama size is? I'm thinking of maybe attempting one of these in the time being while I wait until I can get more work on the "bigger" 4x8. Plus I would gain a lot of knowledge with how to work with ballast and what not. I'm looking at different background buildings that I could use as well.

Any information regarding a diorama would also be great.

Thank you!!!
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Posted by Hawks05 on Tuesday, October 9, 2007 7:59 PM
 CPRail modeler wrote:

Why don't you try this CP/SOO roster site?

www.mountainrailway.com

Hope it helps!



Thank you!!! I've browsed some of the pictures. Seems like there are a lot more of the bigger locos up in Canada compared to down here. I'm sure being in Minnesota there aren't to many hills/mountains that need to be climbed so that would maybe explain the smaller locos.

Thank you all for the info.

Still wondering if getting that SD40-2 or SD60 would be stretching my limits on that small 4x8?
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Posted by Hawks05 on Tuesday, October 9, 2007 7:57 PM
 fwright wrote:

If you are willing to start over, something like this might suit what you want to do a little better, and will fit in the same space, assuming you have access to the 4x8 on 3 sides.  See http://www.layoutdesignservice.com/lds/samples/betterbeginnerlayout.htm

Disadvantage is a duck under.  And you have to rebuild and cut up what you have.  Advantages:  wider radius and bigger track plan better suited to your modern era and prototype in HO.  Sectional construction can be taken apart when you move.  Will fit larger industries and longer trains than a 4x8.

just a thought, I won't take offense if you stay on your present course.

Fred W



I would love to do something like that as I think that would be perfect, but even if the room I had was cleaned out I would still have a closet that has to have access to it as well as a small door that goes in an attic/crawl space. I live in a very old house back home with little storage space so I'm thankful to have what I have.

Eventually the traditional around the room like that would be what I'd aim for. Even if I get a job somewhere after college and find a place that has extra room I would do something like this.
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Posted by Hawks05 on Tuesday, October 9, 2007 7:39 PM
 JohnWPowell wrote:

 I was wondering how you know about  the Indiana Railroad? Athern makes a sd42-2 in indiana rail colors Ii have one> John 



I live/go to school in southeastern Minnesota. My bedroom window faces the CP River Sub that goes along the Mississippi River. Literally 50 yards, maybe less and I'm standing on the tracks.

Anyways, lately some IRR locos have been going through on the point of some trains. Usually two IRR units. Last night there was one that was hauling coal and earlier in the day there was an autoparts train led by an IRR unit.

Very similar to the Soo scheme. Would be nice to have on the layout as something different and out of the ordinary. I'm sure not many around here have any of those.

Also seeing a lot of patched up old Southern Pacific GP's doing some local work for the UP.
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Posted by OKrlroads on Tuesday, October 9, 2007 7:39 PM

 

Lot of good ideas posted.

 The most important info I can give up is to just get started.

 A lots of ideas for doing scenery and such are in this forum, what works for one person, doesn't work for the next. So you try different ideas until you hit the one that works for you. You'll learn things, maybe change design several times, and when you've got the room, you will have a lot of knowledge built up for future layout.

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Posted by fwright on Tuesday, October 9, 2007 7:09 PM

If you are willing to start over, something like this might suit what you want to do a little better, and will fit in the same space, assuming you have access to the 4x8 on 3 sides.  See http://www.layoutdesignservice.com/lds/samples/betterbeginnerlayout.htm

Disadvantage is a duck under.  And you have to rebuild and cut up what you have.  Advantages:  wider radius and bigger track plan better suited to your modern era and prototype in HO.  Sectional construction can be taken apart when you move.  Will fit larger industries and longer trains than a 4x8.

just a thought, I won't take offense if you stay on your present course.

Fred W

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Posted by da_kraut on Tuesday, October 9, 2007 6:49 PM

Hi,

try this site:

http://www.personainternet.com/mile77/

Also go to the links.  It all deals with CP.

Frank 

"If you need a helping hand, you'll find one at the end of your arm."

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Posted by JohnWPowell on Tuesday, October 9, 2007 6:40 PM

 I was wondering how you know about  the Indiana Railroad? Athern makes a sd42-2 in indiana rail colors Ii have one> John 

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Posted by CPRail modeler on Tuesday, October 9, 2007 6:08 PM

Why don't you try this CP/SOO roster site?

www.mountainrailway.com

Hope it helps!

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Posted by tatans on Tuesday, October 9, 2007 6:00 PM
Don't sweat the "4x8" syndrome, many people will scoff at a 4x8 layout, well, you can bet there are a lot more 4x8 layouts out there than you can imagine, and they are great, and they are fun ! don't be intimidated by the 42' x 55' boys, they just managed to latch on to a lot of dough. keep in there.
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Posted by Hawks05 on Monday, October 8, 2007 11:19 PM
Haha. Thanks man. Appreciate it. Well the room that the 4x8 is in at home is not very spacious so the next layout will be at my own place in a future date and time, probably a long time from now as I have some heavy travel plans for after college.

I figure I will buy a couple 6 axle (SD40-2's) that will be considered for the mainline running (the big loop) and use the other 4 axle locos as switching and local work. I'm sure I'll figure stuff out eventually. Just anxious to get started on something I don't have.

I'm an education major, I have no homework haha. I suppose I could read some stuff...
  • Member since
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Posted by Heartland Division CB&Q on Monday, October 8, 2007 10:59 PM

My two cents. Consider making this layout the beginning of your next layout. Cut the 4x8 down the middle to make two sections. Put them end to end making a 2 x 16 layout. ...or make in an "L" shape with the two 2 x 8 pieces. A mainline down the middle will eventually be connected to sections of the future layout. For now, model a small town with light industries. Use your existing 4 axle units to serve those industries. Save your money and wait for the next layout to buy larger locomotvies. Enjoy building the town.

Now get back to the books! Time to study! Get some A's!

Best wishes!

GARRY

HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR

EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU

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Posted by Hawks05 on Monday, October 8, 2007 10:38 PM
 Don Gibson wrote:

YOUR 4X8 is a 'beginners' railroad that is simple to make, requires minimum effort, but won't fit  in a 10X10 room.

It' DIMENSIONS require walking arount it - using 10'X16'of space, and severely limiting operations to small short wheel-based equipment (engines & cars).

If you really are limited by space - but not imagination - 'N' scale is what you want.

OR,  in worst case it's  8'X16' of RR'ding on a 4X8 board.



I would switch to N scale, but based on the fact that I have invested almost $2000 into HO already from working in high school and the summers between college, I think I'll stick to HO.

I may just find some insulation foam and start to go to town on it. Just gotta find a place that sells it around my hometown...

Anyone have any advide on the CP/Soo Line info? I found a couple movies that I may look into getting, but the steep cost is a turnoff.

Would SD40-2's be suitable to run on a 4x8 though? I am really interested in a purchasing 1 or 2 CP's to start things out as well as some GP40/GP38-2 Soo locos.
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Posted by ArtOfRuin on Monday, October 8, 2007 10:35 PM

 Hawks05 wrote:
All of my current locomotives are of the GP60, GP40, or GP38-2 variety. I'm looking to add some 6-axle power in the form of some SD40-2's as well as an SD60. My question would be is the SD60 to big to run on a 4x8 without looking "out of place"? I like the all red Soo locomotives. I know the SD40-2's wouldn't be all that bad looking. I know I won't be able to run any of CP's bigger locomotives on this little layout so for now I'm holding off on purchasing any of those. I have some purchases ahead of me to fill a CP/Soo roster. I figure I'll try and snag up a couple GP38-2 Soo locos and add the beacon light on top, probably not hooked up to work though.

<>For six-axle locomotives, it depends on the minimum radius of the curves. Most six-axles look funny on anything smaller than 26". The radii you're probably looking at for a 4'x8' are 22" and 18". Most six-axles like the SD40-2 will be too big for an 18" and could cause derailment problems, and don't fare much better on 22". The only six-axles I can thinks of that'll work on an 18" without problems would be early ALCo RSD's (i.e. RSD-3) and locomotives based on the SD7 frame (i.e. SD7,-9,-24,-26), though they would still look weird negotiating such tight curves . It sounds like you're modeling the modern era, and a quick check at thedieselshop.us's roster lists doesn't show any of those locos currently running for Soo/CP. If you wanted a plausible excuse to run any of those types of six-packs on your layout and stay prototypical, you could use "run-through" power from another road. BNSF's SD9s and Guilford's SD26s come to mind, but I've never heard of either type making it to Soo territory.

I know what you're going through- My layout isn't much bigger and doesn't even have scenery yet. Mine has 18" curves. I've only had one six-axle unit, a dummy Athearn SD45 that would derail most of my cars. I'm in the process of reconfiguring the layout to a switching yard layout so I can have more action in a confined space. If you take the same approach, your GP38-2s and GP40s would look and work fine in such a layout.

<>

-Jonathan Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel, Is just a freight train coming your way - "No Leaf Clover," Metallica
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Posted by conagher on Monday, October 8, 2007 10:28 PM

Many of us struggle to find the "perfect" layout but more times than not, end up suffering from Paralysis through Analysis and NOTHING gets done.

In the December 1992 issue of Model Railroader, Lou Sassi & friends build a 4x8 layout with a center high hill scenery divider, several sidings and great potential. This is a layout you might find interesting, very easy to build and tons of fun to operate.

Prior to seeing this layout in the magazine, I spent almost 30 years trying to find the perfect layout to build as my first effort. I never got beyond the planning stage.

Lou's article is easy to follow and in less than 2 months of working several evenings a week, I duplicated his layout with a few of my own preferences. I operated it for a few years before attempting my next layout with the thought of making improvements and minor changes to the original. It was built even faster than the first because I was able to avoid numerous first-timer errors.

Since the second layout, I've built 10 or 12 for myself and other people. After the first one was begun, I never again suffered from being an armchair modeler.

What's my point? Forget about the perfect layout....you'll never find one. Just lay some track and start on the scenery. Before you know it, something will rise from the ordinary and become spectacular.

You can't have fun with an empty table. Just Do It!!!  :-)

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Posted by Don Gibson on Monday, October 8, 2007 10:21 PM

YOUR 4X8 is a 'beginners' railroad that is simple to make, requires minimum effort, but won't fit  in a 10X10 room.

It' DIMENSIONS require walking arount it - using 10'X16'of space, and severely limiting operations to small short wheel-based equipment (engines & cars).

If you really are limited by space - but not imagination - 'N' scale is what you want.

OR,  in worst case it's  8'X16' of RR'ding on a 4X8 board.

Don Gibson .............. ________ _______ I I__()____||__| ||||| I / I ((|__|----------| | |||||||||| I ______ I // o--O O O O-----o o OO-------OO ###########################
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Planning/Listing/Locomotives -- Full of questions about a 4x8
Posted by Hawks05 on Monday, October 8, 2007 9:49 PM
Looking at figuring out what railroad to focus on. I know I know I've been up and down this beaten path now for some time and trust me it's getting old to me too.

For the last 3 months I've been living right next to the CP River Sub. in southern Minnesota. I see literally 15-20 trains a day go by. Most of which are Canadian Pacific and ex-Soo Line. I've grown fond to the old CP SD40-2 locos and the old Soo GP38-2's that go by and that do the local service. I believe I've finally narrowed down my railroad to CP with some Soo thrown in. I know I can find a lot of that in this area or when I go home to the shows as that's what is popular.

My question is now this. All I have at home is a measely 4x8 that I hardly get to work on. Still just the track on the plywood. I am making a to do list for my winter break that consists of working on that thing nightly and getting it to look respectable. I'm a big grain hopper fan and gondola fan. So naturally I have a large grain elevator (Walthers ADM elevator) as well as a small feed mille type outfit. What is next is how to put all this on the layout. I have been reading and pondering now for a few days the thought of putting a divider in the middle of the 4x8 seperating what would be the large ADM elevator on one side with the small feed mill and a facility that would allow me to have a lot of gondolas. Also a small yard of some sort, very small, would be nice to have on the layout. On one end of the 4x8 I would like to either have a tunnel or a large valley of some sort. I also plan to do this layout in a winter setting as the red of the CP locomotives would pop and be the main focus.

I would like to say I want to model it after where I'm located now, but being it's a 4x8 I will just free lance it. I will wait until I've settled down and get a place of my own to really make a true layout replicating the real life railroad.

All of my current locomotives are of the GP60, GP40, or GP38-2 variety. I'm looking to add some 6-axle power in the form of some SD40-2's as well as an SD60. My question would be is the SD60 to big to run on a 4x8 without looking "out of place"? I like the all red Soo locomotives. I know the SD40-2's wouldn't be all that bad looking. I know I won't be able to run any of CP's bigger locomotives on this little layout so for now I'm holding off on purchasing any of those. I have some purchases ahead of me to fill a CP/Soo roster. I figure I'll try and snag up a couple GP38-2 Soo locos and add the beacon light on top, probably not hooked up to work though.

So with that background I would like to ask:

What engines from CP/Soo should I look into buying?
Do any manufacturers make any Indiana Railroad locos?
Where do I begin on designing a layout like this with the divider?
a. Could someone sketch up something for me if possible?
What are some Canadian Pacific books I can look at for reference, modern era?
What will be different on a winter layout than on any other type? I know white ground cover would be a big difference.

That is all for now. Just any help with designing a 4x8 layout with the above mentioned components, what type of locos to look for, any reference books or videos that would be good. I enjoy looking at railpictures.net trying to get ideas for locos and different industries and what not, but I need some more help with figuring this stuff out, especially how to design/build the layout on a college students budget. If you are a CP modeler and know of any CP model sites that would be great as well.

Thank you!!!


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