Sorry to necropost but this makes me want to pick up a 60s big boy
Oh boy, an unbalanced armature! That's bad news. You could try balancing it. I've seen some motors balanced with moldable epoxy putty added to the lighter side of the armature, which seems safer than trying to drill into the laminations, as long as you can add enough mass.
The Stewarts tires are good, and are much truer than the stock Rivarossi. The best I've found are the ones I mentioned from my LHS, but they get him from a local guy, and I don't know his source. They're inexpensive, at any rate.
Nelson
Ex-Southern 385 Being Hoisted
SteamFreak wrote:I have an old Berk with the ball bearing motor, and it's mounted upsidedown in the cab, so the BB motor will sit too low in the can motor mount. Rivarossi was infuriatingly inconsistent with their motor mounts and screw spacing (you'd think it would have been a cost saving measure to standardize them, but what do I know? ), So you either need to find a ball bearing motor with the screw holes drilled on the right centers, or just epoxy or RTV the sucker to the motor mount.
I know what you mean about that! The ball-bearing motor I put in didn't have the right mounting for a Big Boy, so I just super-glued it in. It doesn't seem to be causing any problems.
Darth, another nice retro review! That 4005 was my first Big Boy as well. I'd rethink the motor swap, because the large can only got lukewarm at its worst no matter what I threw at it, even extra weight. IIRC it wasn't especially noisy, and certainly a lot quieter than their square bronze bearing motors that immediately followed the ball bearing versions. They were garbage.
The can motor in my Big Boy is a good runner, but one end of the armature was unfortunately cut at an angle, throwing the motor off balance enough to cause a lot of vibration and put a low rumbling through the track. I may not have swapped it for the ball-bearing motor if it was made properly (I still have it incase I ever do want to use it again).
P.S. See if better traction tires don't eliminate the wobble. I bought a Riv Pacific in the 70's that shook so badly that it almost tipped over at high speeds. I thought it had a quartering problem, but it turned out to be uneven tires.
I'll be sure to check that. Do you know if the Stewart Products tires are any good? I've looked at them over and over, but never bought any because they seemed so expensive.
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rs2mike wrote:Actually no it has the round motor in it. To be honest after having the riv rs-2 I really thought it would run like crap without alot of tinkering with the motor. Were can I find the ball bearing motor. Is it easy to change it?
I have an old Berk with the ball bearing motor, and it's mounted upsidedown in the cab, so the BB motor will sit too low in the can motor mount. Rivarossi was infuriatingly inconsistent with their motor mounts and screw spacing (you'd think it would have been a cost saving measure to standardize them, but what do I know? ), So you either need to find a ball bearing motor with the screw holes drilled on the right centers, or just epoxy or RTV the sucker to the motor mount.
Sorry to hear you had that problem with the front engine pivot straight out of the box, but then Q.C. wasn't a top priority in those days. I found the 90's version of that engine to be superior in every way, including tracking ability, in spite of RP25 flanges. The earlier version was too stiff and top heavy. But judging by what they're selling for on the 'bay, I guess they're classics!
rs2mike wrote:Were can I find the ball bearing motor. Is it easy to change it?
About the easiest place to find a ball-bearing motor is eBay. Old hobby stores may also have them back in old-stock. I found mine in an old parts drawer in my LHS's basement.
The BB motors were made to use the same mounts as the standard motors, so as long as you get the right one, they're a direct replacement for all square motors, and a near-direct replacement for can motors.
alco's forever!!!!! Majoring in HO scale Minorig in O scale:)
RUNNING UPDATE:
I decided to swap the stock motor for one of Rivarossi's better ball-bearing motors.
The ball-bearing motor is definately a smoother runner than the stock can motor. It is a little weaker, since it's smaller, and also draws more current, but I'm still happier with how this motor runs than the other one. Running free at 12 volts, the speed is now about 92 scale MPH, with an average current draw of 0.38 amps. The maximum stall current is about 1.4 amps (it just occured to me I never gave the stall current of the other motor). The minimum speed I could keep it running at was about 7 scale MPH, which I found is mainly due to some very slight binding in the axle gears, which should work itself out after some good run time. The motor makes a medium amount of noise, but the ball bearings actually give it kind of a cool sound, so I don't mind the noise. Because the BB motor is smaller than the can motor, it doesn't have as much power, so I wouldn't put quite so many cars behind it (if you're good with motors, it is possible to swap the stock magnet with one made from Neodymium, which should make it even stronger than the can motor ).
Overall, I've found the Big Boy's performance with a ball-bearing motor to be much more pleasing than with the original motor.
QUOTE: Originally posted by Berk-fan284Hi Darth, Glad you like your Big Boy, some of those early Rivarossi's can be a bit funky running (I prefer to think they have character). I'm biased I like Rivarossi old,new and in between. Your B Boy should be good for about 40-43 out of the box Roundhouse and Athearn Blue Box cars (before tuning the cars, etc). I find Rivarossi's are like potato chips you can't have just one .....You ought to check out the Allegheny 2-6-6-6 is one very sweet locomotive, someone here said there's supposed to be a sound equipped version sometime soon. Enjoy your B Boy! Andrew
Enjoy your B Boy! Andrew
You're right, they can run a little funky at first, but once you do some fine tuning on them, they run great!
I do actually have a 2-6-6-6, and it's definately the best steam engine I've got. I think the sound equipped ones will come with Lok-Sound.
QUOTE: Originally posted by rs2mikeI just picked up an old riv 2-8-4 berkshire. runs like a champ looks great with all its detail and it only cost me $30.00. I am hooked on riv!!!
Sounds like you got a great deal!! My 2-8-4 cost me $70, but I'm still happy with it. Does yours have the ball-bearing motor (the ball-bearing motors are square and have a hex nut on the end)? If it does, that could partly explain why it runs so well.
Hi Darth, Glad you like your Big Boy, some of those early Rivarossi's can be a bit funky running (I prefer to think they have character). I'm biased I like Rivarossi old,new and in between. Your B Boy should be good for about 40-43 out of the box Roundhouse and Athearn Blue Box cars (before tuning the cars, etc). I find Rivarossi's are like potato chips you can't have just one .....You ought to check out the Allegheny 2-6-6-6 is one very sweet locomotive, someone here said there's supposed to be a sound equipped version sometime soon.
This review is on Rivarossi's late 70s production Big Boy, sold under the AHM name not long before they stopped importing Rivarossi products.
For being made with 60s technology, Rivarossi's Big Boy is really a very well detailed model of the real engines. Of course, most of the detail is molded on, so it doesn't quite compare to all these newer models by manufacturers like PCM or Athearn, but the nice, clean castings still look great. There's a lot of 3-Dimensional detail molded on, which appears to be separate unless you look closely. All the piping is molded on, but it also has some 3-D spots on it, and almost looks separate. All the handrails are separate parts, but all except for one are a bright silver color, instead of being blackened, which Rivarossi was perfectly capable of doing. The drawbar, bell bracket, stamped metal frames, the grab iron over the headlight, and valve gear hanger brackets are all blackened. All the walkways have finely molded safety tread, which easily rival modern steam engine walkways in detail. The middle of the cow-catcher is hinged, and can be swung around to reveal a front coupler! The coupler's a dummy, but it's still pretty neat. The headlight is rather poorly designed, with the tiny light bulb down in the frame nearly a half-inch under the headlight, so the light barely shows up. I painted the inside if the housing with Model Master chrome-silver, which helped, but it's still not as bright as I'd like. The cab looks pretty good, with good detail all around it, but like most other early Rivarossi steam engines, the inside is filled with a large motor. The siderods and valve gear are all very nicely detailed, but you do have to watch the small rods around the crossheads to make sure they haven't flipped over, which happens sometimes after turning the engine upside-down. All the drive wheels have very detailed plastic centers and look great, but all the wheels also have large flanges that won't work on track under code 100. The front engine has all the large hinged piping, and it all looks good and has enough swing for very tight curves. The rear cylinders are separated from the large piping on the boiler so the rear engine can swing, so the Big Boy can make it around tight curves easier, but it looks less realistic. One thing I like about Rivarossi is they always find some way of hiding the screws holding their engines together. On this one, the rear screw is under the firebox, the middle screw is inside what I believe to be the removable sand dome, and the front screw is the hex nut holding the bell on. Because of Rivarossi's interesting mechanism, the firebox has a full front, and the boiler is almost fully closed around the bottom. The tender is well detailed, with wire grab irons all around, clean castings, and one of the better coal loads I've seen. The paint is all coated very smoothly, and the lettering is very good for its day. The engine's all black color isn't right for any Big Boy that I know of. The smokebox and firebox are usually silver or graphite, although I did see a picture of #4005 from the 70s or 80s showing a red firebox, which I thought was pretty interesting.
The Big Boy ran very wobbly right out of the box, and I had to do a couple things before it would run well. I tightened both engine mounts, because the massive amount of slop originally in them let the boiler go wherever it wanted. I also had to grind away some of the front engine mount, because it was touching the verticle shaft and slowly tearing it apart (I had to fix one end of the shaft because it fell apart). After all that and a little tune-up, the Big Boy ran pretty smoothly and quietly through its speed range. The wobble is gone enough to look good, but it will never be gone completely. The maximum speed running free at 12 volts was about 85 scale MPH, with an average current draw of 0.22 amps. The minimum speed I could keep it running at was about 7 scale MPH, which could be improved if the spring tension in the drive wheel contact "plungers" is reduced. All the linkage works smoothly. For being a Rivarossi, the Big Boy is actually pretty heavy, and with its traction tires, I bet it could pull 60-70 cars. There's plenty of room for more weight, so this could be a very powerful engine if the boiler is filled. The extra space could also be used for a DCC board, since the tender's glued shut. The engine only picks up electricity with 8 of its 24 wheels, but it didn't seem to have any problems running though switches. The Big Boy gets to have the advantage of Rivarossi's largest motor, which is about 50% larger than their standard can and large square motors. The larger motor has a lower high-end speed, the low speed control is better, it's more powerful, and it draws less current than the other motors. It's also fully insulated, instead of having a contact bar going to the right side brush, so DCC is easier to install. The rear coupler is body mounted in a molded-on box, but the opening's large enough that it's pretty easy to install a Kadee coupler. If the tender can be opened, there should be plenty of room for a decent sound system.
Rivarossi's Big Boy was a great model in its day, and is even pretty decent now. It has it's problems, but at only about 1/2-1/4 of the cost of a modern Big Boy, I can live with it. I know I'm happy with mine, and it's let my dream of having an HO Big Boy finally come true.
EDIT: I've posted an update on the Big Boy's running a few posts down, showing how it runs with a different motor.