Decal frustration suggestions?

[Jetrock]

arrgh! I just got done applying a few decals, the first ones I've used since getting back into model railroading, and now I remember how much I loathe decals!! I like detail painting and carving bits out of things with X-Acto knives and doing tons of research and carefully spiking down and ballasting track, but whenever I apply decals it makes me long for a less stressful and aggravating activity like taming rabid dogs.

Does anyone have any hints on how to avoid common decal problems--decals that won't stick, decals that fall apart once you get them off the backing, and that exquisite joy, trying to line up individually cut out letters and numbers in a manner that doesn't suggest the guy that stenciled the logo on the train downed a fifth of Ol'Grand-Dad Remover before starting the job?

[Anonymous]

WOW!!!

Now that is frustration! Wish I could help.

[Anonymous]

This might help. I scanned it out of one of my painting books called "Painting and Weathering Railroad Models" by Jeff Wilson.

It has the basic does and don'ts in a nice example project. Save it to your machine so you can use a image viewer to expand it if the text is unclear in your browser window.

http://www.freepgs.com/warrenjbell/decals.jpg

Warren

[DSchmitt]

If you find your decals are falling apart (usually a problem with old decals) Spray the unused decals with a clear paint such as testors dull coat or gloss coat a few days before trying to apply them.

[Jetrock]

hey, now that's a good tip! I have quite a few old decals (those darn hard-to-find prototypes I like!) so that kink might save a few of them...

[Anonymous]

DSchmitt:

That's an interesting thought. When you do that, do you find that you get more air bubbles because of the added stiffness to the decal or do you not notice any difference? If so, do you just allow more time for the setting solutions to work?

Warren

[ndbprr]

If you are just getting back into model railroading and are using old decals they do age and break up as stated. If you just bought them at a hobby shop I would return them and complain. A couple of thoughts on decals. the films today are ultra thin. They need a glossy surface to adhere properly. Float them into place on a drop or two of water and them suck the water out using a corner of a paper towel. If it is crooked put some water on a pint brush and wet the edge. then you can refloat it into position. Microscale microsol does an excellent job of of setting and snuggling decals down. Just don't touch them ever after you have applied the stuff as they may look distorted but 99 out of 100 times they straighten themselves out. They are very fragile until they dry. Solvaset by Walthers is industrial grade setting solution IMHO. After they have set check for raised areas around handrails and latches and bubbles. Break a bubble with the tip of an Exacto knife and put more setting solution on a paint brush. Capillary action will pull it in and suck the decal down to the surface. Be very careful not to put the film break in an area with color. try to stick to the clear film areas when you can. Decaling just takes time to do a good job

[Jetrock]

I restarted without decals--but a friend whose father was into model railroading gave me an envelope full of decals that are probably 15-20 years old. The ones that broke up horribly easily were an old LaBelle set that has probably been hanging on the hobby shop wall for at least a decade. I was able to jockey the broken pieces into position nicely with a little scooting around with a small brush and some water, though. I suppose that in their case, anyone building a LaBelle kit would have the required patience/masochism to deal with them delicately.

[Anonymous]

ndbprr has the tried and true methods of applying decals. Be careful with paper towels, they sometimes suck the decal out of position. Use flat toothpicks to move your decals around, annd CHEAP cotton swabs.... name brands are really fluffy and fibres fall off and usually wind up under the decal.

As far as your letters... cut them as close to the letter as possible, cut a pice of card stock to use as a guide to the hieght you want. Then take a step or two back to make sure they are straight , this is by far the most challenging part of decalling.

[Anonymous]

Have you considered using try transfers rather than decals? I find them easier to use with much less mess. Specially appealing is not having excess decal film spoiling the finished work.

Randy

[Jetrock]

I actually bought some dry transfers today and tried them. I found them quite a bit less frustrating to use than decals, though I think I still need some practice to get the letters on straight. For lettering and numbers dry transfers may be the way to go, but once I get a half-decent printer I may try making custom decals for things like roadnames.

Other things, though, will require decals--traction stripes and other custom shapes. Fortunately large decals aren't as excruciating as those 1/16" tiny numerals...

[Anonymous]

Jet:

You might try using some of the 3M hobby masking tape to make a 'registration line' to use as a reference for your work. Comes in a couple of widths. If you are worried about damaging the finish you 'detack' it by putting it on a sheet of clean glass first to lower the adhesion factor. Isn't effected by water from the decals and peels off cleanly when done.

Randy

PS type thought: If you contact LaBelle I'm sure they would send you another set of decals as replacement for the defective ones. Assuming they still make the ones you had.

R

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rda1964


Have you considered using try transfers rather than decals? I find them easier to use with much less mess. Specially appealing is not having excess decal film spoiling the finished work.

Randy

I do it dry as well... [^]

Custom Dry Transfers http://www.letraset.com/us/info/products/Transfers-Revitalising-rub-downs-Custom-Dry-Transfer.asp

[DSchmitt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by warrenjbell

DSchmitt:

That's an interesting thought. When you do that, do you find that you get more air bubbles because of the added stiffness to the decal or do you not notice any difference? If so, do you just allow more time for the setting solutions to work?

Warren

I have not noticed any difference. I try to spray a thin even coat and always use micro sol.

[Anonymous]

You can rub the transfers to decal paper that you get from the hobby store. Then you can use these new decals you have made. Transfers will last a long time I guess.

[Anonymous]

This is how I apply decals and it seems to work for me:
I like Micro-Scale's best but this seems to work well for all. You need both Micro-Sol and Micro-Set or other decal solvents. In addition, you will need a tweezers and a modifide paint brush with the bristles cut short to about 3/32nds/1/8th inch long. You will need a sharp #11 X-acto knife. Keep your deeks in a dry location in plastic bags. I also occasionally use a magnafying glass, to see really small deeks.

Gloss coat the surfaces to be decaled. When dry, cut the needed deeks from the deek sheet. Lay the surface to be decaled so it's surface is as close to level as possible.
Pour some water into a small bowl and wet out a paper towel. Dip the deek in the water for 10-15 seconds and lay on the wet paper towel. Let lay 2-3 minutes, while you spread a few drops of solvent on the surface to be decaled. Pick up decal with tweezers and gently slide the decal off the backing paper onto the surface with your modifide paint brush. Position the decal with the brush and let dry. Occasionally look the decal over to make sure it is still positioned right. If it isn't right, flow on some more solvent and re-position. When dry, look over carefully for flaws. Poke bubbles with sharp #11 and re-soak with solvent. If the surface has a compound shape or lots of details, I use Micro-Sol to help the decal lay down onto the surface.

When doing individual letters, or close groupings, do one at a time and make sure each is dry and individually bonded to the surface, before laying the next.

When satisfied, use another clear coat to seal and the clear decal between the letters will disappear. Depending on situation, I use either gloss or dull coat.

Hope this is helpful!

Work slowly and carefully! Feel that heart rate slow down! Life is not all speed and hastle!

[orsonroy]

>>decals that won't stick: make sure you've got a GLOSSY finish on your model. Give a dry model an even coat of glosscoat and decal after it's dry. Get rid of the glossy finish afterwards with dullcoat, which will also help to sealt he decals to the model. Also, decals seem to adhere better if you use distilled water (less minerals and crud, I guess)

>>decals that fall apart once you get them off the backing: don't take the decals off the backing until they're semi-positioned on the model, and then slide the backing away from the model. Adding more water around the area to be decalled helps here. Wick away excess water with a piece of tissue. If you've got old decals, spray on a layer of Glosscoat to help them stay together ('d suggest replacing them though)

>>trying to line up individually cut out letters and numbers: when I'm using dry transfers, I use a Post-it. When I'm using decals, I need something waterproof, so I use low-tack Stotch tape that I further weaken by sticking it to a piece of glass a couple of times. That way, when you remove the tape, it won't lift any paint with it.

Decalling isn't a PITA once you get used to it. As with a lot of other things in this hobby, the fear factor disappears once you take the plunge and "just do it". Remember, stripping a badly-painted model is all part of the learning curve, and is no big deal. If you're REALLY "scalerd" of decals, try dry transfers for awhile. But be warned: dry transfers are actuall HARDER to use than waterslide decals, since they're less flexible and harder to position. Both work (and I use both), but decals are actually easier to deal with overall once you get the hang of them.

I can decal one side of 20 twin hoppers in about two hours, while watching TV. Decalling isn't that hard!

[Anonymous]

Jetrock

ROTF at the last line in your post. I do decals and find them to be trouble waiting for the one slip of my knife, finger whatever...

I do not drink coffee or eat anything that winds up the body before the work.. Usually reinforced by a nap with a session of petting the cats. Then a visit to the spa with a sauna etc (Ok ok I am pushing it)

Decals require absolute focus and I usually warn the wife that I am in delicate work and her surprises can wait a few hours. I find them extremly disruptive and in some cases require purchase of another decal set to replace what was lost during a minor emergency.

Practice a method, learn it and do it the same way everytime... Step one, two then three etc zzzzz....

If you need to stop and take a break do so. No one needs to letter data decals on N scale cars at 6 per hour.

ok, I can give you my method for avoiding the "old granddad" look on individual letters. I use dry tranfer decals lined on a straight edge then scotch tape is placed over all of them. That way they can stay there while you rub em out.

Good Luck!

Lee