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MTH annouces its second HO locomotive

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Posted by dinwitty on Saturday, September 29, 2007 6:21 PM
you might find discount houses dropping the price a bit.
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Posted by wgnrr on Saturday, September 29, 2007 3:23 PM

I am really interiested in the Triplex model, even though I live in Wisconsin. It was a unique and impressive locomotive that looked down-right pretty. The large box headlight, the marker lights, Russian Iron on the boiler, and 3 sets of cylinders; only something a mother could love, right?

I'll wait a little while before I buy mine, as I don't want to pay $499 for an engine just because it looks cool. I'll wait till I see them on clearence.

Someone on the forum mentioned GN steam. I am also going to get one of the PCM S2's, once they come out. PCM really hit the jackpot with me when they released a plastic version of "the brass sensation" as they call it.

Phil

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Posted by ndbprr on Saturday, September 29, 2007 9:21 AM

As Lou Pinella said after the Cubs had won a couple of games earlier this year, "Let's not go and get all giggly here now".  Announcing and producing and when as we know from experience are far different things.  

I guess we can all get "Giggly" now.  The Cubs won the Central Division last night.

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Posted by marknewton on Saturday, September 29, 2007 7:21 AM
 tomikawaTT wrote:

Taking my line of reasoning to its (il)logical conclusion, all Bayer-Garratts are tank engines...


Perfectly logical Chuck. Beyer, Peacock always classified Garratts as tank engines, as did most of the railways that ran them. And I might add my tuppence worth about the Kiso engines - they were lovley little machines.

Cheers,

Mark.
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Posted by marknewton on Saturday, September 29, 2007 7:17 AM
 dinwitty wrote:
 tomikawaTT wrote:

 

Strictly speaking, the Erie 2-8-8-8-2 was a tank engine, since it didn't have a separate tender!

I see your angle there, I went, umm waitaminute, oh, OK. But it didnt hold water at the side of the boiler...


So? Well tanks hold their water between the frames - but they're still tank engines. Skirt tanks, too. The FCAB had engines with the fuel oil bunker forming a (thick) cab roof, but they were still tank engines.

Cheers,

Mark.
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Posted by marknewton on Saturday, September 29, 2007 7:11 AM
 selector wrote:
My point, exactly!  We have collectively lamented the plethora of BB's , Challengers, K4's, 0-X-0, USRA Whatever, and we even have the latest iteration (not that it's a bad one, mind you) of the H-8, but when someone comes out with a real gee-whizzer, the noses rise...

I would never lament the availability of any USRA engines. Not only were they the closest the US rail industry ever got to a standardised steam loco, they can be acceptable stand-ins for many others. And in my entirely subjective view, they were good looking engines.

I personally have no used for a Triplex because I like to model the ordinary locos, but I wouldn't begrudge anybody else having one.

Cheers,

Mark.
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Posted by marknewton on Saturday, September 29, 2007 7:02 AM
 Hal M. Hare wrote:
Since they seem to prefer the unusuakl, perhaps they will consider a Garratt?

You want a Garratt - why wait?

http://eurekamodels.com.au/Garratt.html

Cheers,

Mark.
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Posted by marknewton on Saturday, September 29, 2007 6:56 AM
 selector wrote:

All true enough, Mark. 

I was just thinking; he sure knows how to get a buzz out of us.  The other major forum has some excitement building, plus the usual upturned noses Laugh [(-D], and we are no different.  There's nothing in the media quite like a juicy tidbit, eh?

-Crandell


You're not wrong, Crandell. I suppose half the battle in selling anything is getting the word out into the market that you have something to sell. MTH have certainly achieved that. Take me as an example, I have no interest in such a model, and yet I have mentioned to three people who I know will be interested.

Cheers,

Mark
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Posted by Lillen on Friday, September 28, 2007 3:50 PM

 selector wrote:
The other forum is from the major manufacturers of flextrack. Big Smile [:D]

 

Thanks, I'm not a member there but I read it on a daily basis.

 

Magnus

Unless otherwise mentioned it's HO and about the 50's. Magnus
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Posted by tomikawaTT on Friday, September 28, 2007 2:38 PM

Side or saddle tanks don't make a tank engine, water and fuel all carried on the locomotive frame that holds the drivers make it a tank engine.

My favorite loco of all time is the 762mm gauge Kiso 0-4-2T.  Baldwin built it with its tank (and an immense wood bunker) behind the cab.  The little, skinny (36" diameter) boiler didn't even have running boards, so the little beast looked like a drumstick (chicken or turkey variety.)

The Southern had a couple of standard locos fitted with tender engines - kind of super-boosters.  The loco-tender coupling was the usual drawbar link, not a Mallet hinge.  (N&W J 604 actually had a tender booster for a while.  When the boiler pressure was raised to 300#, 604 had more tractive effort than a UP Challenger!)

Taking my line of reasoning to its (il)logical conclusion, all Bayer-Garratts are tank engines...

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

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Posted by dinwitty on Friday, September 28, 2007 12:53 AM
 tomikawaTT wrote:

 

Strictly speaking, the Erie 2-8-8-8-2 was a tank engine, since it didn't have a separate tender!

I see your angle there, I went, umm waitaminute, oh, OK. But it didnt hold water at the side of the boiler. The rear set is separated from the main boiler section. When the Virginian de-tripped it, it "became" a tender. 8-D There was a 2-8-2-8-2, non articulated engine with drivers under the tender. Putting tender booster trucks wasnt unusual and I think the 2-8-4 NKP berks had trailing truck boosters, or some engines had that.  Every ounce of tractive effort worked in.

 

 

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Posted by selector on Friday, September 28, 2007 12:50 AM
I can't argue with you, Chuck.  I think that they are wonderful engines, came in all sizes (didn't the IC have monster Consolidations?), and it is the one run-of-the-mill steamers missing from my stable...well, except for a 0-8-0.  My wife and I will be pulled by former CN and now Kamloops Heritage Railway's #2141 on Saturday the 6th on an all-day excursion.  Looking forward to it very much since I know this engine.  It is a beauty, and the restorers held nothing back when they worked on her.  I could stand beside her pumps and listen all day.
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Posted by tomikawaTT on Thursday, September 27, 2007 11:32 PM

The Trip was articulated just like any other Mallet.  The boiler was fixed to the high pressure engine (actually only at the cylinder saddle, the firebox end could move as heat expanded the boiler,) the front low pressure engine wss hinged at the high pressure cylinders (swung in a horizontal plane but was vertically rigid.)  The rear engine was hinged at the cylinders, and the entire tank-and-bunker assembly was mounted to its frame.

Strictly speaking, the Erie 2-8-8-8-2 was a tank engine, since it didn't have a separate tender!

Other things it didn't have - a combustion chamber, decent-size grate area and good draft (only the front engine exhausted up the stack.)  Once 10mph was no longer acceptable as a maximum speed (even for a pusher) the Triplex joined the various pre-superheat compounds (Vauclain, Cole, cross and tandem,) the dodo and the passenger pigeon.

In all the preceeding discussion, nobody ever mentioned PFM's most successful locomotive, the Santa Fe 2-8-0.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - running 24 drivers under 3 separate boilers) 

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Posted by selector on Thursday, September 27, 2007 11:09 PM
If it were not articulated, it would only be able to operate on tangent track...period.  So, it must be articulated, and the obvious place would be between tender and main engine.  Because the specs say it is good to 27", it must have at least one other engine under the boiler articulated, and my bet would be the front.  However, I think that its overall length means that MTH will have to articulate all three.  Twenty-seven inches is only three more than the stated minimum for the BLI 2-10-4, so I am fairly confident with my expectation.
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Posted by GTX765 on Thursday, September 27, 2007 10:20 PM
Is this engine Articulated? Where would the best price be found? Have anyone here owned a MTH? Can you give us a full review? Just would like to know more please
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Posted by selector on Thursday, September 27, 2007 9:57 PM
My point, exactly!  We have collectively lamented the plethora of BB's , Challengers, K4's, 0-X-0, USRA Whatever, and we even have the latest iteration (not that it's a bad one, mind you) of the H-8, but when someone comes out with a real gee-whizzer, the noses rise.  What's going on?  Let's extend our boundaries, folks, and enjoy the wider range of things already.  Maybe MTH will condescend to produce a Z, or that super Hudson as their next offering.  Let's give them credit for reaching around the corner on this one.  If they do it justice, and can reduce the price point more than a tad, they can give BLI a run for their money...the way I see it.
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Posted by 7j43k on Thursday, September 27, 2007 8:49 PM

While I'll "probably" get the Triplex just 'cause of the ooh-aah factor, I do agree about the Z-6's.  I could use maybe three of these in SP&S.  With the rear engine attached to the boiler, just like the real ones, please.  HO, of course.

Ed

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Posted by twhite on Thursday, September 27, 2007 8:31 PM

Isn't this a hoot?  I was perusing the last issue of RMC and what did I see?  A couple of GN/SP&S Z-series 4-6-6-4's, probably the handsomest Challengers ever built (okay, except for the Rio Grande L-105's from Baldwin) and as my heart stopped, I saw--O SCALE BY MTH.  And I immediately thought, "How come O-scale, which I admire, gets THESE and all we HO'ers ever get is ANOTHER UP 3985--or whatever it is--Clone by whatever manufacturer got bit in the butt by the the Bug THIS month?" 

So, instead of designing those handsome "other Alco" 4-6-6-4's in HO for us, MTH decides on a Triplex? 

Hey, guys, somebody out there AIN'T LISTENING!

Tom Angry [:(!] 

 

 

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Posted by 3railguy on Thursday, September 27, 2007 8:27 PM
Trixplexes are cool. For $500 list, I should hope MTH gets it right.
John Long Give me Magnetraction or give me Death.
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Posted by dinwitty on Thursday, September 27, 2007 8:07 PM

 Hal M. Hare wrote:
Since they seem to prefer the unusuakl, perhaps they will consider a Garratt?

Want to go unusual? Make the never built experimental ACE loco project.  Thatll put a steam loco out that fits in the modern diesel age. MR ran plans for it and someone modeled it.

BTW the Virginian Trip was rebuilt into a 2-8-8-0 with the third engine a 2-8-0 slapping a boiler on, they ran till 1953, so it was a failure as a trip, but fine when remodded.

 

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Posted by Hal M. Hare on Thursday, September 27, 2007 12:10 PM
Since they seem to prefer the unusuakl, perhaps they will consider a Garratt?
Best Wishes, Hal M. Hare
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Posted by selector on Thursday, September 27, 2007 11:40 AM
The other forum is from the major manufacturers of flextrack. Big Smile [:D]
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Posted by Lillen on Thursday, September 27, 2007 4:53 AM
 selector wrote:

All true enough, Mark. 

I was just thinking; he sure knows how to get a buzz out of us.  The other major forum has some excitement building, plus the usual upturned noses Laugh [(-D], and we are no different.  There's nothing in the media quite like a juicy tidbit, eh?

-Crandell

 

What other forum?

 

I do hope they sell a lot since that would lead the way for other manufacturers to take chances and not just repeat the same old locos.

 

Magnus

Unless otherwise mentioned it's HO and about the 50's. Magnus
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Posted by dinwitty on Thursday, September 27, 2007 4:47 AM

 selector wrote:
I'm with you on the ATSF Hudson, Jerry.  I'd also like to see the Bessemer & Lake Erie monster 2-10-4.  A Yellowstone would be their ticket to stardom in HO.

ha yeh, I bought my ebay brass one now, you train makers listen up.

 

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Posted by selector on Thursday, September 27, 2007 12:13 AM
I'm with you on the ATSF Hudson, Jerry.  I'd also like to see the Bessemer & Lake Erie monster 2-10-4.  A Yellowstone would be their ticket to stardom in HO.
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Posted by JerryZeman on Thursday, September 27, 2007 12:00 AM

Well, I got to give MTH credit, they went out on a limb and picked a really ODD locomotive for their second kick at the cat.  It is a nice looking piece, and if this is indicative of what MTH is willing to produce, then I hope they sell a boatload of these things.  Maybe then they will consider coming to their senses and producing some late model GN steam.  It was pretty successful for PFM all those years ago, no reason it wouldn't work for MTH.  It would be too simple to do a successful locomotive like a Great Northern O-8 mikado.  How about a Northern Pacific W-3?  They were the GP9s of the steam era on NP! 

Sadly, last time I told this to Andy Edlemen, I got the deer in the headlight looks.  Evidently, if the locomotive didn't work east of the Mississippi, they are not interested.  Typical shortsighted 3 rail thinking.  Hopefully the person they hire for their HO product line has a clue, and there is still hope for them. 

They did a very nice looking Z-6 in O scale (2 and 3 rail) recently.  Too bad that it was done two years earlier by 3rd Rail division of Sunset models. 

These guys are not working very hard to get my dollars in either scale.  Pity, I wouldn't mind dropping some green in their store if they actually made something I modeled, unless it was recently produced by somebody else. 

At least they have come out with some really nice steam era rolling stock in O. 

All they have to do is pick up a "Brown Book of Brass" and look at the models that have been run like crazy over the years.  Off the top of my head, some examples would be:

  • AT&SF 2-8-0
  • GN O-8 2-8-2
  • GN S-1 4-8-4
  • GN R-2 2-8-8-2 (they did this in O already)
  • GN F-8 2-8-0
  • GN C-1 0-8-0
  • GN Q-1 2-10-2
  • GN N-3 2-8-8-0
  • UP / SP 2-8-0
  • UP / SP 2-8-2 (UP MK6 and SP MK were pretty close)
  • UP 4-8-2 (not the Bathtub thing)
  • AT&SF Hudson
  • DM&IR Yellowstone
  • UP / SP 0-6-0
  • SP 4-6-0

And I'm sure a whole bunch of others that escape my memory at this late hour. 

For the diesel guys, do a SD70ACe, it sure was a good pick for O. 

regards,

Jerry Zeman

 

  

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Posted by dinwitty on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 8:57 PM

Right now the Triplex in HO is rare in brass only with a handful of home brew versions.

I found an RMC article, feb 1958 on how to build your own Erie triplex, using John English 2-8-2 (now bowser) mechanisms. That model could take 22" radius, with blind drivers, 18".

Making the boiler takes brass tubing and a bit of metalworking. Good article.

Someone made the Virginian using Mantua mechanisms, featured in the Model of the Month award in MR recently.

I wasn't interested in the K4, but more on the Triplex, but has to be Virginian detail correct. 

The engine isnt going to attract the kind of interest like the Big Boy but it IS a unique engine, successful or not.

Buying a brass triplex goes over 1000 bucks. 500 bucks isnt bad for MTH's, and I bought the Rivarrossi 2-6-6-6 for around 400 bucks and the BLI 2-6-6-4 about the same so the pricing isnt far off.

 As far as DCS goes, if I dont like there DCS, its presto-chango and put a true DCC in.

So far now however, its no buy for me on the Erie Trip. Thnx, no thnx MTH, have a mod for a true Virginian, I'm on, otherwise I look for the Brass one.

 

 

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Posted by selector on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 6:29 PM

All true enough, Mark. 

I was just thinking; he sure knows how to get a buzz out of us.  The other major forum has some excitement building, plus the usual upturned noses Laugh [(-D], and we are no different.  There's nothing in the media quite like a juicy tidbit, eh?

-Crandell

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Posted by marknewton on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 5:37 PM
I agree with those posters who noted the "bigger is better" mentality among modellers, and also those who mentioned the curiosity value of a Triplex - but even so, I think it's a shame MTH chose such an atypical loco to build.

If it were my choice, the Erie engine I'd choose to model would be their K5 4-6-2. Not only were they a very handsome machine in all their various guises, but they could also be used to represent other USRA-derived heavy 4-6-2s with relatively minor changes.

They wouldn't be perfect replicaas, but they would be much more convincing than painting "Virginian" on an Erie engine...

Cheers,

Mark.

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