Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
ndbprr wrote:Well soda or pop as it is called here in the midwest is acidic due to the carbon dioxide and water forming carbonic acid. It also bad for your teetch by the way. Vinegar is another mildy acidic product and when painting brass is one of the suggested materiasl to use to extremely lightly etch the surface as it removes all traces of oil from handling and oxides on the brass. Following imersion and rinsing care must be taken to not handle the product with bare hands until it is fully painted. Today an ultrasonic cleaner and air eraser do a much better job. Rust can be a serious problem or just a surface problem that has bled and covered good areas. The object should preferably be seen in person to make a proper diagnosis.
Alot of sodas has citric acid in them, and if they are colas, they will most likely have a fair amount of have phosphric acid ( the same stuff in navel jelly ) in them as well. Coke has the highest level of phosphric acid in it of all the common sodas and is very good at cleaning out things ( including the insides of people ). In a nut shell Parkerizing is a method of putting a protective finish on a piece of steel ( commonly used on firearms ), by placing the artical to be finished in a vat containing a solution of phosphric acid - many times at or near the point of boiling. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphate_conversion_coating
An odd thing about phosphric acid, it tends to be more forgiving with organic matter than many other acids for a given level of acidity - hence why it's used in the preperation of food & drink.
Depending on what the item is, cleaning with a can or two of Coke, may actualy work.
Vinegar (acetic acid) is corrosive, yes. However, as also already stated, it a weak acid and I suspect you could immerse a metal model in it for a day or even multiple days without losing any detail or doing any other damage. But you would be well advised to keep an eye on it!
This forum is the first place I have seen anybody recommend any soft drink product for the same purpose! I believe, notwithstnading the earlier comment to the effect that coke is the best one to use, that plain old seltzer, which is the closest thing to pure carbonic acid, is as effective as any soda drink to use as an etchant. Carbonic acid is a pretty weak acid too, and probably won't damage the model that is immersed in it. Same advice applies as with the vinegar --- keep an eye on it.
These products both have the rather considerable advantage of being safe to work with --- after all, both are intended for human consumption!
One thing that occurred to me is you might try a multi-step process. Use naval jelly first (BTW, wear rubber gloves when using that stuff), which is specifically intended to be a rust remover, then clean the naval jelly off and immerse the model in vinegar.
I seem to recall that naval jelly is not an effective reducing agent (i.e., rust remover) on just any old metal. I also seem to recall that I have used it successfully on steel tools. I can't speak for brass.
ndbprr wrote: "Vinegar, my friend, might do the job but I am sure there are better materials for removing rust. Vinegar is very corrosive and that is why you buy it in glass and it is moved around the industry in wood - never in metal or plastic!!!"Sorry but vinegar (acetic acid) is not one of the more vigorous acids and its Ph is closer to neutral than most others. HCL, H2So4, Nitric, Phosphoric, Chromic and most others can reach concentrations that surpass vinegar in every aspect. I did not recommend vinegar. I was responding to a question as to why someone would put something in soda pop to remove acid. Carbonic acid formed from CO2 and H2O and household vinegar are very mild acids.
"Vinegar, my friend, might do the job but I am sure there are better materials for removing rust. Vinegar is very corrosive and that is why you buy it in glass and it is moved around the industry in wood - never in metal or plastic!!!"
Sorry but vinegar (acetic acid) is not one of the more vigorous acids and its Ph is closer to neutral than most others. HCL, H2So4, Nitric, Phosphoric, Chromic and most others can reach concentrations that surpass vinegar in every aspect. I did not recommend vinegar. I was responding to a question as to why someone would put something in soda pop to remove acid. Carbonic acid formed from CO2 and H2O and household vinegar are very mild acids.
...and besides, I have two liters of white vinegar in our cupboard that is in a plastic bottle. Don't remember when it came in glass.
Thanks for the input... actually, the weaker acids are quite useful, as long as you have time... Appreciate all the input!
Brian
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
A product here in the midwest called Whink works very well for removing rust. Not sure if it's available nationally, though. My grand daughter in Seattle reports it's not available there.
Tom
Life is simple - eat, drink, play with trains!
Go Big Red!
PA&ERR "If you think you are doing something stupid, you're probably right!"
A few years ago I got into collecting and cleaning kerosene lanterns. This is going to sound strange, but one of the preferred methods of removing rust from a metal lantern is to:
- Get a five gallon sealable plastic container and fill it with 12 oz. of Grandma's Molasses (available at food stores) mixed in warm water.
- The entire lantern, minus the glass globe, was submerged entirely in the solution for 1 day.
- The lantern was removed after a day and lightly scoured with a Brillo pad -not SOS pads
- The soak and scour steps were repeated until the rust and grime were removed (2-3 days)
Jim
p.s. Molasses MUST be Grandma's name brand.
loathar wrote:Sanding and steel wool. Automotive stores have products like Rust Reformer and similar products. I used some on an old truck and it worked pretty good. You still have to do something about the pits though.They say regular Coke is the best soda to use.
Sanding and steel wool. Automotive stores have products like Rust Reformer and similar products. I used some on an old truck and it worked pretty good. You still have to do something about the pits though.
They say regular Coke is the best soda to use.
If there are details nearby you dont want to harm them. You just want something to react to the rust, then be able to wipe it off. The rust has already damages the area its in, so fillers would be needed.
You didn't say what it was that had all the rust on it. So, I'll guess it was a loco....Loathars suggestion is what I'd try first,or if you have a Dremel or similar tool, a brass bristle brush might work pretty good on a low speed setting. Don't let the brush sit in one place very long or you may loose some surface detail.
tstage wrote:Naval jelly
You pretty much have to scrape rust off. You can loosen it with Break Free or something like that, but to get it off you have to scrape/wire brush etc.
To inhibit rust paint is about as good as anything. There are other things. Cosmoline like substances and oil/waxy stuff that comes in spray cans etc.
The real rust experts are yachtsmen. The warm ocean is the most hostile place for rust. Even aluminum corrodes down there.
Naval jelly is a very good rust inhibitor. It can be found in automotive stores. Just don't put it on hot toast...
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Oh, I am NOT going to, but I was just wondering, if I were to tackle it, how would I....
So, I was looking at a rusty item on ebay, thinking of bidding and pondering taking the rust off when I wondered, how would I do that?
My grandpa used to soak things in a pail/cup of soda for a few days... Dunno if this would work, but was just wondering how you all would take a LOT of rust off a metal car, building, etc. that you were going to repaint anyways.
I look forward to your thoughts and ideas!