Brass Track

[gmcrail]

I have friend with a layout that has brass track. It needs considerable work to get it running as it has been stored for some time. I have not worked with brass in some time and don't remember some of its shortcommings.

It should be noted here that "nickle silver" has neither nickle nor silver as part of the alloy.  It is basically brass, with less copper.  The primary electrical shortcoming of brass is that its oxide in a non-conductor of electricity.  The oxide of nickle silver is a conductor of electricity.  Therefore, with nickle silver, the only things you have to worry about are the dust, dirt, grime, oil, etc., etc..   

 

 

Will it take solder like nickel silver rail?

Yes - even better. 

 

What are the characteristics concerning cleaning?

Clean it the same way you would nickle silver.  If you don't run often, you may need to use a metal polish (Flitz is good) to get rid of tarnish.   

 

 Will combining some nickel silver with the brass be ok? ( a few turnouts had to be replaced).

Other than a change of color, yes, it'll be fine. 

 

Niether one of us has a money tree and the layout is 8x8 so to replace all the track may be significant. Should we consider replacing all of it?

I would consider doing so as you can afford it, if for no other reason than it's easier to find nickle silver track nowadays.  If it's buried in ballast and scenery, I wouldn't bother.

Will it run DCC ok?

 

Yes.  As noted, there is no major difference electrically, except that brass is a slightly better conductor, but not significantly so.

Thanks for any feedback.

De nada. 

[Gandy Dancer]

Where I live, brass track is collectible. Put it out by the curb Monday evening. Come Tuesday, it will be collected.

This coming from a person who uses Bachmann EZ-Track.

[cordon]

I agree with the posts above that say clean it and repair as needed.  I remember my track cleaning car - it worked very well.

I remember that many of the problems with the track on my 1950 layout came from grease and oil from the locos of that time.  We also had to clean that munge off the wheels.  I think there is much less of that with modern rolling stock.

Let us know how it works out.  You may be able to confirm or bust a myth or two.

 

[UP2CSX]

My yard track and all the turnouts are brass because I had them available when I started the layout and it saved me about $150 not having to replace all those tracks and turnouts. I originally started modeling in the long-ago era when brass was the only track available. Badly neglected brass can be a real problem because all the weathering is non-conductive and those turnouts realy need a good going over. Once that's done, I haven't found it any harder to maintain than the rest of the railroad, which is N/S. I actually think the brass turnouts work better than the N/S turnouts because brass by its nature is a little more conductive than N/S. Except for the unrealistic color, there's nothing wrong with brass track.  

[Canondale61]

I restarted my layout with brass. My kids cleaned it with steel wool (OOOOOOOPS). I then cleaned it with a contact cleaner and soft cloth. It works well BUT I have been replacing the brass with N/S. The mainline is N/S and all sidings are now brass. No issues. I do not have DCC so I can not comment on how it works on the brass. Only reason I am replacing the brass is it is all I can buy.

Kevin

[The EL RR]

What i would do is get the track up and running with the brass. Then slowly (as you get the money) start replacing the track with nickle silver. I think in the long run that will make your layout easier to mantain and last longer. There is nothing wrong with brass though.

Michael

[tatans]

At last, some common sense answers @ brass track, there is nothing wrong with brass track, but there is something wrong about the misconception that N/S is far superior to brass --nonsense ! ! do the chemical, electrical, corrosive, strength, reliability, etc factors, then post some facts about the wonders of N/S, there are thousands of us out there that use it and enjoy it but we don't sit around condemming N/S, it sounds like a promoters dream to sell new track, anyone that can't clean their track occasionally probably won't clean N/S either.

[Gandy Dancer]

Will it take solder like nickel silver rail?

Yes, actually better.  There is more than one reason all those import locomotives are brass instead of nickle-silver.

What are the characteristics concerning cleaning?

Same, other than the polished rail tops will look yellow rather than silver.  Common thought is that it will require more cleaning than NS, but I am personally beginning to disbelieve that. 

Will combining some nickel silver with the brass be ok?

Yes, the primary difference between brass and NS is the amount of zinc vs. nickel mixed with the copper.  I have not been able to detect any bi-metal reaction between the two.

Niether one of us has a money tree and the layout is 8x8 so to replace all the track may be significant. Should we consider replacing all of it?

Use what you have and just replace with NS as there are problems.  The entire MR industry used brass rail for 30 years without nearly the problems most people today claim we had.

Will it run DCC ok?

When clean it will work better. Regular brass conducts electricity much better than NS.  The problem is keeping it clean, but this is a problem with NS also....

I just happened to have run all Labor Day weekend on an old brass track layout.  I haven't run on brass rails for almost 20 years, but I noticed no difference at all from the NS layouts I normally run on. 

 

[ARTHILL]

Good advice so far. If you are starting new, do NS.

BUT, it will take MUCH less time to clean the old brass, MANY times, than to convert it to NS. I would clean the old brass track fix its quirks and run some trains.

There are some great railroads in my area that started with brass, expanded many times, started to use NS but still run the brass in the old sections.

[easyaces]

First off, brass rail was THE standard until the mid '50s.  Nickel silver's main selling point (originally) was that it looked more like steel.

To answer your questions in order:

Brass and nickel silver have very similar soldering characteristics.  The main thing is to make sure that the surface being soldered is clean.  (I have suggested in the past that train set sectional track acquired at yard sales is good for learning how to solder feeders to rail.)

Brass does require a bit more cleaning, especially if trains are run infrequently.  How much and how often will be determined mostly by the environmental conditions where the layout is located - a damp New England basement will cause more problems quicker than I have found in my garage in the Dessicated Desert.

Directly connecting NS to brass MIGHT lead to galvanic corrosion over time if the relative humidity is high, but I wouldn't lose sleep over it.  I have brass flex at the stub ends of my layover yards, connected to NS flex with unsoldered, un-jumpered NS rail joiners.  No problem.

As long as it's clean enough to make good wheel-to-rail contact, there should be no problem running DCC on it.  I wouldn't recommend changing it all out unless you encounter really severe contact problems all over.  Individual trouble spots can be dealt with individually, usually with Brasso and a clean rag.

Getting back into operation after a long period of inactivity is mainly a cleaning issue - removing accumulated dist, crud and corrosion from the tops and insides of the railheads, and from behind switch points.  Staying in operation can be helped considerably by running a track cleaning car (masonite pad type) as part of your regular consists.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

I agree with Tomikawa TT on this one. Nowadays nickle-silver rail is the way to go, considering its easier to clean and maintain its electrical conductivity.

[loathar]

The rail heads aren't the problem. They're EZ to clean. It's the dirt and corrosion on the point rail pivots on the turnouts. You might want to try a couple drops of TarnX and toothbrush to clean those. I seem to remember that worked pretty good. Use a Q-tip and some TarnX to clean the inside of the stock rails where the point rails contact them.

As mentioned, brass was the standard for years.

[jeffrey-wimberly]

Where I live, brass track is collectible. Put it out by the curb Monday evening. Come Tuesday, it will be collected.

[ndbprr]

Galvanic action from using Nickel silver and brass should be a nonissue.  If it were the solder and copper wire would be a problem also and it isn't or at least never has been for me in forty years in the hobby.  Brass needs to be run regularly in order to not get oxidized.  Some Wahl clipper oil or some other means of keeping the oxygen from the railheads will help considerably.

[dstarr]

I have friend with a layout that has brass track. It needs considerable work to get it running as it has been stored for some time. I have not worked with brass in some time and don't remember some of its shortcommings.

Will it take solder like nickel silver rail?

What are the characteristics concerning cleaning?

Will combining some nickel silver with the brass be ok? ( a few turnouts had to be replaced).

Niether one of us has a money tree and the layout is 8x8 so to replace all the track may be significant. Should we consider replacing all of it?

Will it run DCC ok?

Thanks for any feedback. 

Back in the day, all HO used brass track.  The switchover to nickel-silver in the late 1950's came about because nickel-silver looked better and stayed cleaner.  Both nickel silver and brass solder extremely well with 60-40 tin-lead solder and rosin flux.  Brass tarnishes readily and the tarnish does not conduct electricity.  Locomotives loose electrical contact over tarnished brass and jerk or stall. 

   If you take the trouble to keep the brass rail bright and shiny on top, trains will run just as well as on nickel silver.   If your layout is in a clean dry atmosphere the track may stay bright for months between cleanings.  If the layout room is damp and dusty, you will have to clean more often.  You can use household brass polish to clean brass rail, but I'd surely try to find something else, 'cause the brass polishes are white fluids and spills on the ties will dry out white and look ugly.  I'd try Goo-Gone, it's got some citric acid in it and removes tarnish on a lot of metals.  Mineral spirits (aka paint thinner or charcoal lighter), alcohol, Windex, and 409 spray cleaner are some of the other things that have been used in the past.  I would avoid MEK, acetone or lacquet thinner because they are so strong that they dissolve plastic ties.  

   You can mix brass and nickel silver with no problems. (other than looks).  Once you get the layout running well on plain DC, it ought to run DCC just as well, other than the "DCC turnout problem".  Some turnouts allow metal wheels to short the north rail to the south rail at the frog. DCC power boosters contain protective circuitry that will shut down the booster for a momentary short which is too brief to bother a DC power pack.  You can find good discussions of DCC and turnouts by searching this and other net discussion groups.

   Was it me, I'd clean the track and fix the busted stuff and get the layout running.  It's fun and better a running layout with brass rail than no layout at all.  Once you get her running, you may find the track cleaning requirements aren't all that bad.  The old time model railroaders ran various kinds of track cleaning cars, and it may be that just making a few passes with such a car will be enough to keep the rail bright.  Or, keep the cleaning car in service with the rest of the rolling stock so it gets run regularly.

 

 

[tomikawaTT]

First off, brass rail was THE standard until the mid '50s.  Nickel silver's main selling point (originally) was that it looked more like steel.

To answer your questions in order:

Brass and nickel silver have very similar soldering characteristics.  The main thing is to make sure that the surface being soldered is clean.  (I have suggested in the past that train set sectional track acquired at yard sales is good for learning how to solder feeders to rail.)

Brass does require a bit more cleaning, especially if trains are run infrequently.  How much and how often will be determined mostly by the environmental conditions where the layout is located - a damp New England basement will cause more problems quicker than I have found in my garage in the Dessicated Desert.

Directly connecting NS to brass MIGHT lead to galvanic corrosion over time if the relative humidity is high, but I wouldn't lose sleep over it.  I have brass flex at the stub ends of my layover yards, connected to NS flex with unsoldered, un-jumpered NS rail joiners.  No problem.

As long as it's clean enough to make good wheel-to-rail contact, there should be no problem running DCC on it.  I wouldn't recommend changing it all out unless you encounter really severe contact problems all over.  Individual trouble spots can be dealt with individually, usually with Brasso and a clean rag.

Getting back into operation after a long period of inactivity is mainly a cleaning issue - removing accumulated dist, crud and corrosion from the tops and insides of the railheads, and from behind switch points.  Staying in operation can be helped considerably by running a track cleaning car (masonite pad type) as part of your regular consists.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

[mikesmowers]

   As for me, I would not even consider using any brass track at all because it is really bad about corroding and the electricity will not flow from the rails to the locos. I relize the hardship this will put on you but you will be lots better in the long run.  Brass track will consume a LOT of your time just keeping it clean, and personally, I don't think it looks very good.  Sorry if I burst your bubble.  Others may have a different opinion,     Mike

[spidge]

I have friend with a layout that has brass track. It needs considerable work to get it running as it has been stored for some time. I have not worked with brass in some time and don't remember some of its shortcommings.

Will it take solder like nickel silver rail?

What are the characteristics concerning cleaning?

Will combining some nickel silver with the brass be ok? ( a few turnouts had to be replaced).

Niether one of us has a money tree and the layout is 8x8 so to replace all the track may be significant. Should we consider replacing all of it?

Will it run DCC ok?

Thanks for any feedback.