I am making an around the walls layout 14'x16'. Actually it is against two walls and the other two sides are open to the rest of the room.
The problem is, to enter the layout I have to duck under it. It is 40" to the bottom of the benchwork but that still requires a lot of bending to clear.
I wanted to make a lift out section or a hinged section that swings up so I can enter. The swing up section is more appealing however, I don't have a clue how to build one. For that matter either. I was hoping someone here has done it successfully and has a drawing and can describe how they built it.
Or is there any published drawings, books, or anything out there that shows and describes the building process.
I appreciate any information you may have.
Thanks,
Bill
Jerry SP FOREVER http://photobucket.com/albums/f317/GAPPLEG/
How wide is your layout at that point? If it's relatively narrow, you might be able to put in a swinging gate. In fact, you could even build a gate with a wide platform on top if you can put an appropriately-curved arc into your design.
Also, how far along is your layout? If you've got a lot invested in construction of that area already, it's going to be harder to retrofit an access point. On the other hand, you can make changes if you're still in the planning phase. One popular option is a lift-off bridge, simulating a wide waterway but actually only having a 1 or 2-track span going across.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Bill,
You might want to consider a swinging-door design, rather than a lift up/down/out. There was a good description of one (three tracks on two levels) in RMC a few months back.
Advantages of a hinged door:
Whatever method you decide on to arrange clear access to the layout space, two things to keep in mind:
On my last layout I was planning to use a bascule arrangement for access (short end down, long end up.) Before it got built I was granted title to a space big enough to allow walk-in access. The bascule survives as a cassette connection feature.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
If you have wooden or metal guides at the end that does the high arc, the opening end so to speak, that part can be relatively easy for any type of movement, whether swing-up or swing wide. The bear, as suggested above, is getting the hinged and rotating axis and its environs to work tightly and to look good once the integrity of the moving section is restored to align at the free end, i.e., when closed. You would have to machine a curved arc, one concave, the other convex, and curve, or cove maybe, the slipping surfaces so that the seam is essentially invisible. To keep it working reliably, the key is a robust and relatively good hinge.
Lift off is simplest, but the most prone to edge wear due to continual banging when trying to get things aligned sufficiently to fall into place...which is about what it will do if it weighs more than 10 lbs and you are holding this substantial item out near arm's length. Damage to the near-edge rails is likely.
Personally, I would think hard and try for the swing up, but that is just my preference. You will probably not want a gate type to swing inwards since it will take up a chunk of space for you and a guest to avoid while you both try to restore it to its closed position. So, if I were to want a gate, I would look carefully at its intended swept path in terms of what is likely to cause it to come to grief out there.
Just some thoughts, never actually made one, but I have thought about it. In the end, I chose the duckunder, mostly because I am short, and young, and was able to make it 44" high. Even then, I still do a scrape when I am distracted. If you are anything over 5'7", your stoop will be very awkward, and will have to be called a failure often...I'm pretty sure.
Mr. Beasley, the area is 24" wide and it is on a straight section. I was planning for the lift out / swing up to be 18" wide and 36" long.
A swing out won't work because there is not be enough room for the section to swing out.
I have the book, Basic Model Railroad Benchwork, from Kalmbach but it doesn't go into detail about swing up sections.
I went to a show this past weekend. One exhibit had a layout with a swing up section. However, I never got a chance to speak with the person that built that module. It had swing arm that looked like it was made from a 5/4"x6" board on both sides and 3/4" plywood as the sub-roadbed. It was connected to wooden legs that seemed to be made of the same 5/4"x 6" wood. There was a section that connected both legs at the bottom that stood about 2" from the floor and was topped with a 2"x12" board.
Still looking for more information and thanks for everyon'e input so far
I've build a lift out section and I'm very satisfied with this. It's simple to build.
More at my site under "room".
Wolfgang
Pueblo & Salt Lake RR
Come to us http://www.westportterminal.de my videos my blog
Okay, if you are still open-minded about your problem, I will demonstrate that a swing down need not be an invitation to a knee-jerk disaster. Mine works quite well for a non-craftsman to have done it. A cabinet maker would probably have to cough before telling me I did a good job, but in the photo below, you see that the diagonal bridge spanning the operating pit works quite well. A more particular and skilled modeler would have done a few things differently, but this span has two small brass hinges at its pivot axis, at right where it meets the bench, and is held in place only by two small brass barrel locks. The latches of the barrel locks are the conduit for the power that comes up to the rails...they complete the circuit.
If I were to do it over again, I would have made the mating surfaces at the left side angled so that they could come closer during the swing up and latching. I missed that part and realized, too late, that I would have to pare back the foam a bit to get clearance. Luckily, it was only as bad as you can see. Don't be put off by the blue foam, it's all a work in progress.
To close this, my point was that a swing down is viable, but it needs to be thought out, A, and B is that it needs a retainer, hook and wire loops maybe, to keep it swung down and then continued on up and tucked out of the way of knees...hence the "knee-jerk" comment above.
-Crandell
Bill, if you are open to another option, you might try a swing gate (like a door). It a) eliminates ducking, b) eliminates the necessity for finding a place to put the lift-out section while it's out and you have to go back and forth through it, c) has no bulky hinges sticking above the benchwork like a lift gate does, and d) you don't have to worry about knocking any scenery off the drop-gate while it's down. I made one that I'm pretty satisfied with:
http://gmcrail.newsit.es/swing_gate/swing_gate.html
You might check it out...
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Gary M. Collins gmcrailgNOSPAM@gmail.com
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"Common Sense, Ain't!" -- G. M. Collins
http://fhn.site90.net
For a finished, hinged, lift up section, you need to consider the following:
1. Hiding the hinges on the hinge side. Easiest way to do this is the same way most of the doors in your home do it. The hinges go in the crack between fixed sectionm and hinged section.
Going a step further, check with your hardware store and if they can't help you with "invisible cabinetry hinges", try a specialty woodworking store. Don't be afraid of mortising for the hinges. Screw them to one side or the other, scribe around them with a sharp utility blade, dig in slowly with a sharp chiesel, and all you really have to worry about is going too deep.
You'd think you have to eyeball a perfect placement of the mortises for the other side of the hinge, but it isn't as hard as it seems. Use a square and tape measure to get close, scribe again with the knife, but don't drill your screw holes for that side till you test fit and adjust.
2. The non-hinged side has to have a slight slant to it, so it doesn't stick, due to it's thickness, when you try to open it. The longer the hinged section, the less of a slant, or bevel you'll need. Get this just the way you want it, after the hinges are in, but before laying any track. If you need to dress the edges of the liftout section because the hinges weren't perfectly installed, now's the time to do that too.
3. Locking into the perfect position, time after time. Sliding joiners can be a bit of a pain. Very often, you will forget to do this, like when the phone's ringing and you're in a hurry, and it's very hard on your track. If you get the woodwork done first, then lay the track, uninterupted across the hinged section, then cut the rails last, you are most of the way home to not having to use joiners at all.
The final ingredient is to be able to fix the non-hinged side into position when it's closed, avoiding the slight play you'll find in many hinges. One way to do that is to put regular door hinges on the non-hinged section. Door hinges allow you to easily remove the hinge pins, making for an inexpensive locking system that's easier to work with than tiny joiners with sharp edges that require a tool to push into place, or else risk the skin of your fingers with easily infected puncture wounds. For longevity, the non hinged side hinges should carry no weight at all. The "door stop" should be in wood or use something other than the locking hinges. All they are for is to precisely lock the non-hinged side into the proper place. Graphite will make the hingepins even easier to remove and replace.
Placement of the non-hinge hinges is on the bottom of the hinged section, so that the fixed hinge hinge-half sticks way out from the fixed benchwork, while the fixed hinge hinge-half on the gate section is wholly underneath the gate section. Otherwise, this will catch when you try to close the gate.
If this is hard to visualize, think of a regular door in your home. Close that door, then make it impossible to open again by installing hinges on the non hinge side of the closed door. Install the locking hinges so that when you remove the hinge pins on them, the two halves of the new hinges aren't in the way of the swinging door. Now apply that idea to your layout gate. If you want, use steel hinges for the locking mechanisms, and screw your power leads directly to the hinge, so that it carries the current. Hinge pins removed, gate open, no power flows.
4. Hiding the cracks in the scenery. Not near as tough as you might think, at least if you're working in foam, plaster cloth and lightweight spackling compound. With "invisible hinges", both sides of the swing up section will come down onto the fixed section scenery. Foam and plaster cloth the fixed sections first. Let that dry thoroughly. Cover the edges of the fixed sections at the cracks with saran wrap. Lay plaster cloth on the swing up sections so that it drapes onto the saran wrap half an inch or so. The overlap on the hinged side can depend on the exact model of your invisible hinge, eyeball it to get the idea down first. The overlapping scenery can't interfere with the swing of the hinged section or you'll break it off. Repairs are easy if you get it wrong the first time, but in the long run, you don't want to do scenery repair every entry and exit.
While the plaster cloth is still wet, work the overlap down as tight as you can with your fingers. The saran wrap will make perfection impossible, but the closer you get, the easier the rest becomes. Check it every half hour or so while it's drying and if necesary, push it down tight when it needs it.
You have a pretty nice joint as soon as the plaster cloth is dry, but longevity requires at least two layers of plaster cloth. The most invisible joint comes when the second layer of cloth overlaps less than the first layer. The sturdiest joint comes when the two or more layers of cloth overlap the same amount.
To really make the joint invisible, close the gate, and add spackling compound across the joint, sealing it shut. Get the surface the way you want it, then wait about ten minutes, and jiggle the gate open. The spackle will crack, randomly, close to, but not right on the plaster cloth joint. Leave, closing the gate behind you. and let the spackle dry thoroughly. It may re-seal itself a little bit, but once dry, more wiggling will crack it loose again, probably on the original crack made ten minutes into the drying process. Repeat this process, building up the spackle layer by layer, as long as it takes to get the joint hidden to your satisfaction.
Remember, each time you moisten the joint from then on, while painting, or applying glue for grass or shrubbery, it can re-seal itself, but that ten minute interval between application and opening the gate will keep the crack "alive" enough for you to leave and come back to a joint that's not too hard to unseal.
Joints created in this manner are almost invisible even before painting. Once you paint and add foliage, they disappear forever, or until you break the plaster or spackle when opening or closing the gate.
There are five different liftout sections of terrain in this picture, plus the fixed terrain base that all of them join to:
In addition, each section adjoins to at least one other lift out section, two of them mate to two other liftout sections, and one of them mates to three lift out sections, plus the fixed base, for a total of 12 hidden joints. All were done as described above.
How many of them did you spot?
Look at this pic, and then try again.
Unless your eyes are a lot better than mine, (distinctly possible), them joints is hid.
:-)
Hope this helps.
Building a Swing Gate - An alternative to the duckunder!
The link above will take you to Part I of a tutorial that I put together based on my answer to a similar problem I faced on my layout. So far I have not had any problems with this design, still I am awaiting the first full year of weather changes to see how it holds up, and that will be March of 2008 before the first full cycle is met.
I have the photos, but still need to pen the documentation for Part II before I put it up on the site.
Cheers,
Ryan
Ryan BoudreauxThe Piedmont Division Modeling The Southern Railway, Norfolk & Western & Norfolk Southern in HO during the merger eraCajun Chef Ryan
I've done a temporary liftout. It's about 40" above floor and it becomes a duckunder when I am running trains. I will replace it with a swing gate - count on it!
Regards,
Tom
Lots of great ideas and photos. I appreciate everyon'e help on this.
I never thought of using a second door hinge on the un-hinged side as a means of "locking" the swinging gate in position. That's a great idea.
I made two liftouts from foam...
Basic shape prior to carving...
Test fitting - the blue will be carved out deep and below the plywood for a 'pit'
Finished piece in place - all the straight lines are broken up...
Dale Manquen standing inside tha first access hatch area --- from his recent visit...
Second access hatch in place to the right of picture --- foreground mountain...
Ann standing inside the second access hatch area...
After looking at the swing gates shown here I may reconsider how wide I want to go with that section. If I were to go slimmer I would be able to do the swing gate.
Thanks everyone for all the great ideas and for all the pictures. I can see light at the end of the tunnel. No pun intended.