I have recently become interested in the CZ myself. Trainworld in Brooklyn (they advertise in Model Railroader) sent me a list of their CZ items in stock a week ago.
http://www.trainworld.com/
08/06/07 14:23 G:\PRODLIST.LST
Date 8/ 6/2007 Product Listing [Mfg=BL Status=ACT]
Manuf
Prod
Status
Description
Inventory
BL
501
ACT 501
CZ CB&Q BAGGAGE SILVER BEAR
0
ACT 502
CZ CB&Q VISTADOME SILVER BRIDLE
15
ACT 503
CZ CB&Q VISTADOME SILVER LARIAT
17
ACT 504
CZ CB&Q VISTADOME SILVER RANCH
ACT 505
CZ CB&Q LOUNGE CAR SILVER CLUB
ACT 506
CZ CB&Q 48SEAT DINER SILVER DIN
25
ACT 507
CZ CB&Q 10-6 SLEEP.SILVER POINT
4
ACT 508
CZ CB&Q 10-6 SLEEP.SILVER SHORE
16
ACT 509
CZ CB&Q 10-6 SLEEP.SILVER BUTTE
18
ACT 510
CZ CB&Q 16SEC.SLEEP.SILVER MAPL
ACT 511
CZ CB&Q SLEEPER SILVER DOVE
14
ACT 512
CZ CB&Q OBSERV. SILVER HORIZON
ACT 536
CZ CB&Q VISTDOME SILVER SADDLE
12
ACT 513
CZ D&RGW BAGGAGE SILV.ANTELOPE
ACT 514
CZ D&RGW VISTADOME SILV.BRONCO
ACT 515
CZ D&RGW VISTADOME SILV.MUSTANG
26
ACT 516
CZ D&RGW LOUNGE SILVER SHOP
ACT 517
CZ D&RGW 48SEAT DINER SILV.BANQ
ACT 518
CZ D&RGW 10-6 SLEEP.SILVER PASS
ACT 519
CZ D&RGW 10-6 SLEEP.SILV.GORGE
11
ACT 520
CZ D&RGW 16SEC.SLEEP.SILV.ASPEN
ACT 521
CZ D&RGW SLEEPER SILVER GULL
ACT 537
CZ D&RGW VISTADOME SILVER PONY
ACT 523
CZ WP BAGGAGE SILVER BEAVER
ACT 524
CZ WP VISTADOME SILVER DOLLAR
ACT 525
CZ WP VISTADOME SILVER FEATHER
13
ACT 526
CZ WP VISTADOME SILVER PALACE
ACT 527
CZ WP LOUNGE SILVER CHALET
ACT 528
CZ WP 48SEAT DINER SILVER PLATT
ACT 529
CZ WP 10-6 SLEEP. SILVER ARROYO
20
ACT 530
CZ WP 10-6 SLEEP. SILVER CANYON
ACT 531
CZ WP 10-6 SLEEP. SILVER PALISA
10
ACT 532
CZ WP 16SEC.SLEEP. SILVER PALM
ACT 533
CZ WP SLEEPER SILVER CRANE
ACT 538
CZ WP VISTADOME SILVER SCOUT
22
ACT 1022
CZ VISTADOME UNLETT.& NO #
1
ACT 1023
CZ VISTA DOME CONDUCT.SPACE
ACT 1024
CZ VISTA DOME DORM/BUFF/LOUNGE
ACT 1025
CZ 48 SEAT DINER UNLETT.& NO #
9
ACT 1026
CZ 10 ROOMETTE,6DBL BEDRM SLEE
ACT 1027
CZ 16 SECT.SLEEPER UNLETT,NO #
2
ACT 1028
CZ 6-BEDRM 5-COMPART.SLEEPER
ACT 1029
CZ 1-DRAW ROOM 3VD BUFFET LOG
ACT 796
H.O. ZEPHYR CB&Q 13 CAR SET
ACT 797
H.O. ZEPHYR WP 13 CAR SET
ACT 798
H.O. ZEPHYR D&RGW 11 CAR SET
I removed the pricing because I think it might break the "no advertising" rule if I left them in. But I think advising others of availability of wanted items is OK.
(Edited)
Didn't have my head on straight - the only observation dome on the list (that I could find) has a zero in the inventory column.
Once again guys, thanks for the help. I will start reworking them as soon as I got the time. They are just a little off but that makes them sensitive as you already know. It's a shame since they are not exactly cheap.
RedGrey62 wrote: If you're still looking for a dome observation, I was in a local hobby shop yesterday and he had quite a few. He still has many of the other cars as well, the car I picked up was 49.95, not sure if it was a dome or not since they tend to be a bit more expensive.http://www.traintimehobby.com/Rick
If you're still looking for a dome observation, I was in a local hobby shop yesterday and he had quite a few. He still has many of the other cars as well, the car I picked up was 49.95, not sure if it was a dome or not since they tend to be a bit more expensive.
http://www.traintimehobby.com/
Rick
I will look that place up, it would be great to get one since the train will look wrong without one. I really appreciate your help, link and everything.
Magnus
Sounds like you somehow got some of the original batch.
Lillen wrote:How do you fix the wheels? Do you mean replace them?
Where can I get new springs? Because they sure do not spring back very well. I will try some of the others tomorrow and see if they are as bad.
Lillen wrote: Thanks as always for the reply. How do you fix the wheels? Do you mean replace them? If so what should I get? Where can I get new springs? Because they sure do not spring back very well. I will try some of the others tomorrow and see if they are as bad. Because right now they are very finicky of the track. I thought Walthers heavyweights where among the worst and that I wouldn't have to go through this again but I guess I was wrong. But man they are beautiful. The domes are so pretty when lit up that I almost want to cry. Of course, they are not as beautiful as B&O heavyweights but you can't have it all I guess. Magnus
Thanks as always for the reply. How do you fix the wheels? Do you mean replace them? If so what should I get? Where can I get new springs? Because they sure do not spring back very well. I will try some of the others tomorrow and see if they are as bad. Because right now they are very finicky of the track. I thought Walthers heavyweights where among the worst and that I wouldn't have to go through this again but I guess I was wrong.
But man they are beautiful. The domes are so pretty when lit up that I almost want to cry. Of course, they are not as beautiful as B&O heavyweights but you can't have it all I guess.
You are right about the beauty of these cars. The LED lighting is very good and the look of the overall train is really great. At the head of my train is a set of Genesis F3's with Soundtrax installed. They really look great with the lighting and sound good too. A friend of mine has installed DCC in the observation and uses it to control the rear lights and red mars light. Is that great or what??? I will probably do my also with individual markers, drum head and mars light.
All you need is a NMRA gauge to check them and twist them into position with you fingers. It may a try or two to get them correct for the first sets, but you will get the hang of it. This is fairly common on many products since the wheels are press on and the quality check portion of most manufacturers is not perfect..
Let us know how it works out. You can correct this problem in just a few minutes.
The web site below has some history for the Californian Zephyr.
http://calzephyr.railfan.net/home.html
Cheers
Lillen wrote: Ok I got them yesterday and ran them today. Four of them anyways. I must say I like there looks and they run good. But there are issues with quality. The couplers are poor on at least two of the cars I tried today. One even fell out as soon as I put it one the track and another gets stuck in one extreme position a lot of the times causing the following to derail. Also, I've noticed that they are VERY sensitive too vertical movement, basically slightest different in height and uneven track work. Now poor track is MY problem and not the cars but nothing else I got have problems with these spots.But enough complaining. Is there a way to adjust how much spring there is on the couplers? I also noticed that the wheels seems to be just a little of gauge on pretty much all of them? But they are of a slightly different build then my heavyweight wheels so I guess it's the sloping insides of the wheels that makes them not fit the NMRA gauge all the way in?But besides this, they look astonishing, I mean they are so detailed and they run so great when not coupled together but rather with something else. The PCM F3 is also the sweetest diesels I have yet to see and they ran great, not a single derailment or problem. It will take some getting used to with there slow start up and stopping speeds but that is just a positive if you ask me. They sound great too. I especially love the sound they make when they are getting ready to leave. Magnus
Ok I got them yesterday and ran them today. Four of them anyways. I must say I like there looks and they run good. But there are issues with quality. The couplers are poor on at least two of the cars I tried today. One even fell out as soon as I put it one the track and another gets stuck in one extreme position a lot of the times causing the following to derail.
Also, I've noticed that they are VERY sensitive too vertical movement, basically slightest different in height and uneven track work. Now poor track is MY problem and not the cars but nothing else I got have problems with these spots.
But enough complaining. Is there a way to adjust how much spring there is on the couplers? I also noticed that the wheels seems to be just a little of gauge on pretty much all of them? But they are of a slightly different build then my heavyweight wheels so I guess it's the sloping insides of the wheels that makes them not fit the NMRA gauge all the way in?
But besides this, they look astonishing, I mean they are so detailed and they run so great when not coupled together but rather with something else. The PCM F3 is also the sweetest diesels I have yet to see and they ran great, not a single derailment or problem. It will take some getting used to with there slow start up and stopping speeds but that is just a positive if you ask me. They sound great too. I especially love the sound they make when they are getting ready to leave.
The first run of tht BLI Zephyr cars had problems with the wheel sets being out of gauge, but they can be corrected quickly. The second run of the cars was better according to many who reported on them.
The springs on the couplers themselves can be replaced if they are defective. The cars do not use the standard coupler boxes and might need some fine tuning.
One other problem I noticed is the baggage car needs extra weight added since it is too light. It might derail if you have sharp radius curves on grades.
Enjoy the beauty of the Zephyr train.
Kadee, Well that was just what I was hoping for. They will arrive on Monday, I'm quite thrilled about that.
Lillen wrote: CAZEPHYR wrote:Look under HO trains and under Zephyr. I know your feelings about Ebay. I don't use it any longer to actually purchase trains. Cheers I will check them out. Are the couplers good on the cars or is it Kadee time before anything else again? Magnus
CAZEPHYR wrote:Look under HO trains and under Zephyr. I know your feelings about Ebay. I don't use it any longer to actually purchase trains. Cheers
I know your feelings about Ebay. I don't use it any longer to actually purchase trains.
I will check them out. Are the couplers good on the cars or is it Kadee time before anything else again?
The couplers are good since they are Kadee's.
Lillen wrote: I'm going to have a look at that, I just don't like shopping at eBay that's all. I don't know why but I don't. Magnus
I'm going to have a look at that, I just don't like shopping at eBay that's all. I don't know why but I don't.
Look under HO trains and under Zephyr.
Lillen wrote: I have become fascinated byt the BLI California Zephyr Passenger Cars, But I can't fint the engine that BLI produced to pull them? Are they out? Wich was it and what would you recomend otherwise. Thanks for your time, Magnus P.s Anyone who got some of them who like to share there experiences with them?
I have become fascinated byt the BLI California Zephyr Passenger Cars, But I can't fint the engine that BLI produced to pull them? Are they out? Wich was it and what would you recomend otherwise.
Thanks for your time, Magnus
P.s Anyone who got some of them who like to share there experiences with them?
I noticed several observation cars are now on Ebay since it was mentioned they were hard to find.
Lillen,
I don't know if Ebay is an option, but I see BLI CZ cars on there all the time and I'd expect dome observation cars to be among the choices you could get.
As for baggage cars, I've never seen a picture of the CZ with more than one baggage car - it seemed to be very consistent up to the very end. I'd say if there were ever 2 baggage cars used, it was very rare. And since there were only 6 purchased, one for each of the train sets in motion - one trainset would be without if another had double. Of course its your train and you can run what make you happy.
Speaking of baggage cars, an interesting exception in the 1960's is a CB&Q Havloc baggage car was often substituted for the CZ Budd made baggage car. I've seen that CB&Q baggage in numerous photo's.
Also, I''ve seen pictures in the late 1960's of Rio Grande Pullman Standard coaches and dome chair cars at the head end of the CZ as special company cars. Walthers carries Pullman Standard 52 seat coach in Rio Grande 4-stripe paint so I ordered 2 of them, they are on sale right now. For general interest, one could put one or two of those right behind the baggage car and be prototypical.
Other foreign cars on the CZ in the 1960's were sleepers. Often a single sleeper by Union Pacific, New York Central, Pennsylvania RR etc were included right at the end of the train ahead of the dome-observation car!
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
That is great guys. I love good diaphragms. I really think it adds to the looks of a train.
I use 36" curves as a minimum.
Nice layout you got there. How big is it?
Lillen wrote:I have yet another question. How do the diaphragms look? do they look good and close to each other? Otherwise is there any replacement that would look better? I really want this train to look it's best.
Lillen wrote: I have yet another question. How do the diaphragms look? do they look good and close to each other? Otherwise is there any replacement that would look better? I really want this train to look it's best. Magnus
I have yet another question. How do the diaphragms look? do they look good and close to each other? Otherwise is there any replacement that would look better? I really want this train to look it's best.
The diaphragms that come on them are about as good as you are going to get. They look great, and if I remember correctly, they even have nice striker plate detail. The diaphragms don't remain "together", but stay close. Fully functional diaphragms with correct car spacing require HUGE radii anyhow.
I know what you mean about the baggage cars. For some reason I love head end equipment myself. On my consolidated Super Chief/El Capitan I have 2 baggage cars (ocassionally the Santa Fe ran as many as three), an RPO, and a baggage dormitory. The head end cars can make for some great passenger train operating sessions.
The LTS here had some obs cars a while back. I will have to check it out, but those cars don't seem to sit on the shelf very long in this state.
OK, I was able to find another baggage car, I for some reason love baggage cars. But I still haven't been able to locate a observation car. Anyone knows of any?
Yes, I know about the observation car. But I couldn't find it anywhere. If anyone knows of a store that have one I would appreciate it. I would also like a conductor car and a another baggage car.
But the observation car is of course a must since without it the train looks naked I would guess.
Well, thanks, guys, you have been a great source of information and it thanks to all of you that i went with this, my first stream liner rather then something else.
Lillen wrote:OK, I ordered this. Please comment about if it will make a good setup?
The only 3 unit sets on the Rio Grande were the ALCo PA's. Keepin mind that they had more horse power than the F3's. The 3 unit ALCo set had the same horse power as a 4 unit ABBA F unit set = 6000 horsepower. I don't believe I've ever seen a photo of a 3 unit F set on the Rio Grande - a mountain RR. The CB&Q was flat land and 3 F's would do the job.
Magnus... it looks like you don't have a dome-observations car in your list. I'd delete one of the 16 section sleepers and one of the 10-6 sleepers and add a dome. Most CZ consists only had 3 10/6 sleepers in the back, unless they were heavy summer trains in the 1960's.
BTW, the 16 section sleepers were converted to coaches in the 1962/63 period from what I read owing to lack of demand for semi private compartments. They still looked the same from the outside after conversion to 48 seat coaches.
A pre-1962 CZ would be the following typical 12 car set:
1-Baggage3-dome coaches (middle one has the conductors window)1-dome lounge1-diner1-6/5 sleeper3-10/6 sleepers (you had four listed - on of them was the trans con sleeper1-16 section sleeper1-dome observation
The 16 section sleeper was before the trans con sleeper in the early years. After 16 section sleepers were converted to coaches, they were usually behind the baggage car at the front, but only in summer when loadings were high. Winters didn't usually see that flat top coach used much at all. If anything you might have a few too many cars. Certainly in the 60's, some summer trains could be 12-14 cars long and winter trains 9-10 cars, deleting dome coaches and sleepers.
Looks like it will will be a sharp train! Three units will look about right pulling it and if the BLI's pull as well as the Genesis Fs (they should), you'll have the power you need to get it over the road.
The Rio Grande often used four units, but I think this was so they had plenty of power for this first class train and to provide some redundacy in case of a road failure. A three unit Rio Grande CZ did run at times. From what I remember being said, the Fs proved to be more reliable than the Alco PAs were for them, but it never hurts to have an extra unit in the mountains. On the other hand, as the Alcos aged, they would have been less reliable for that reason alone. The Rio Grande had committed exclusively to EMD by the time the Fs took over the CZ on a mostly full-time basis in the late 1950s. Somewhat oddly, the CZ didn't always draw the newest F units in this period. I think it still used mostly the F3s well into the 1960s. I don't have my library handy, so I'm winging it on what I remember here.
But you're running a CB&Q CZ. I'm much less familiar with the CB&Q and WP CZ operations. The grades were certainly less of an issue on the Plains. Three F units may have been more standard for them. I'm sure someone who knows more will correct me if I'm wrong about that supposition. I do know the CB&Q went to E units for CZ power after awhile, so that's an option if you want some variety, besides choosing to drop certain cars from your consist.
The mix of cars looks good to me. This was pretty much randomized, unless you are trying to model a specific set on a specific train or something like that and want to match that run exactly.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
OK, I ordered this. Please comment about if it will make a good setup?
I'm I right if I think that the ABA can be broken up and be run as an AB and one A unit. There by running one large and one small train if necessary.
Any suggestions how I should assemble the train to make it the most realistic would be appreciated.
Here is the stuff I ordered:
Very true, I wouldn't be surprised if the redux of that F3AB set 5544, 5543 is smaller but its good news. I have the first half of the set #5541-5544, set #5541,5542 that is sold out, and still need the other half.
BTW, have you noticed that BLI had a inventory clearance sale on the CZ cars? The prices were very attractive but I pretty much have what I need now.
Just specualtion on my part, but I'll bet they are correctly done this time. In fact, in may be that only a few purchasers were aware of the shell swap issue, since many consumers buy things because they look good, not because they're prototypically accurate. No harm -- no foul, they're happy with what they have. It's only we Rio Grande fanatics who probably care...
What may have happened is that Athearn ordered enough of the correct shells to fix everything they shipped in the first batch -- and then got stuck with a whole bunch of the right shells when only a few of us asked that the shells be corrected. Then what do you do? You order a bunch of powered chassis from your vendor. The replacement shells came packed by themselves in their own Genesis boxes, so they even already had those. Just add chassis!
There are certainly plenty of BLI Zephyr cars out there to pull. This also may mean that if you want these, it may be a bit smaller run than usual, given some of them have already gone to those of us who requested the warranty swap.