Breaking News- Lionel returns to HO

[Anonymous]

Hey Andy; You have contacts, I'm sure, with the LIONEL Folks, how about getting their spokesman to respond here and explain to all on the forum how they can justify such a high price. And while your at it you might want them to chk out these responces and see how poorly their re-entry back to HO has been recieved[:)][:)]

[Anonymous]

Hey Andy; You have contacts, I'm sure, with the LIONEL Folks, how about getting their spokesman to respond here and explain to all on the forum how they can justify such a high price. And while your at it you might want them to chk out these responces and see how poorly their re-entry back to HO has been recieved[:)][:)]

[Anonymous]

I wonder what the " break-even "point would be for quantity on something like this....? That is likely the determining factor as to whether Lionel might produce another redundant style of engine.... [ ie: like say, a $900 Big Boy ???[:0] ].....or whether they find they have misinterpreted a market they have been away from.

Assuming Lionel gets around US$380 for each of these new Challengers from distributors, how many do they need to sell to:
[ a ]amortize their design & tooling costs ?
[ b ] cover their promotional costs ?
[ c ] cover material, labor, & overheads on the first "xxx" quantity units ?
After this, they would only have [ c ] to pay for, on subsequent units.

If I were guessing, I would guess around 2500 units would be the magic number needed to reach that break-even point, mainly due to their offshore manufacturing.
Anyone else have a comment or guess on this?
regards \ Mike[?]

[Anonymous]

I wonder what the " break-even "point would be for quantity on something like this....? That is likely the determining factor as to whether Lionel might produce another redundant style of engine.... [ ie: like say, a $900 Big Boy ???[:0] ].....or whether they find they have misinterpreted a market they have been away from.

Assuming Lionel gets around US$380 for each of these new Challengers from distributors, how many do they need to sell to:
[ a ]amortize their design & tooling costs ?
[ b ] cover their promotional costs ?
[ c ] cover material, labor, & overheads on the first "xxx" quantity units ?
After this, they would only have [ c ] to pay for, on subsequent units.

If I were guessing, I would guess around 2500 units would be the magic number needed to reach that break-even point, mainly due to their offshore manufacturing.
Anyone else have a comment or guess on this?
regards \ Mike[?]

[Anonymous]

I once spoke to LIFE LIKE, about the cost of producing the DL-109 that they did come out with some years after the initial conversation, and the indication was , at that time, around $100,000-$150,000, and that was just for the tooling. Now this was around 5 or 6 years ago so I can just imagine what those cost may be now, but based on those numbers they would have to sell about 2000-3000 units at $70.00 each just to break even. Now I don't even pretend to know what LIONELS tooling and production cost are, but if I had to sell an HO diecast or plastic locomotive for $700.00 just to break even, I really believe I would be re-considering my re-entry into the HO market where competition is already fierce among some really great, well established companies, that ARE NOT going to give up so much as 1% of their market share to what can be considered an HO market upstart.[V][V][V][:(!]

[Anonymous]

I once spoke to LIFE LIKE, about the cost of producing the DL-109 that they did come out with some years after the initial conversation, and the indication was , at that time, around $100,000-$150,000, and that was just for the tooling. Now this was around 5 or 6 years ago so I can just imagine what those cost may be now, but based on those numbers they would have to sell about 2000-3000 units at $70.00 each just to break even. Now I don't even pretend to know what LIONELS tooling and production cost are, but if I had to sell an HO diecast or plastic locomotive for $700.00 just to break even, I really believe I would be re-considering my re-entry into the HO market where competition is already fierce among some really great, well established companies, that ARE NOT going to give up so much as 1% of their market share to what can be considered an HO market upstart.[V][V][V][:(!]

[jsanchez]

I hope Lionel pays their workers in China a decent wage , if they are charging 700 dollars a loco, how many hours does the 14 year old female assembler have to work to purchase one of these overpriced loco's, and are they going to be sold to hobbyshops at your traditional lousy margins, making it prohibitive for many shops to stock these? I think the effort would have been better spent making a 150$ Pacific or Consolidation, something folks could afford and use. I know the O scale market is sailing in rough seas, but I don't think this over priced loco is going to save a sinking ship!

[jsanchez]

I hope Lionel pays their workers in China a decent wage , if they are charging 700 dollars a loco, how many hours does the 14 year old female assembler have to work to purchase one of these overpriced loco's, and are they going to be sold to hobbyshops at your traditional lousy margins, making it prohibitive for many shops to stock these? I think the effort would have been better spent making a 150$ Pacific or Consolidation, something folks could afford and use. I know the O scale market is sailing in rough seas, but I don't think this over priced loco is going to save a sinking ship!

[Anonymous]

Does this mean the Freedom Trainset is back?

[Anonymous]

Does this mean the Freedom Trainset is back?

[Anonymous]

RE: Breaking News- Lionel returns to HO and then passes right by it headed for Nyman Marcus (Needless Markup). That is where they will sell these $700.00 Jewels.
Heck, they are liable to be so good, that Lionel will put one in the Smithsonian museum in the same cage with the Hope (less) diamond.
Oh well another manufacturer is having a going out of business sale, no that is taking their business out side the USA so we can import more foreign nationals to ruin the job market that is already shot. In addition, thank you NAFTA. (No Americans For Today’s Applications.)

[Anonymous]

RE: Breaking News- Lionel returns to HO and then passes right by it headed for Nyman Marcus (Needless Markup). That is where they will sell these $700.00 Jewels.
Heck, they are liable to be so good, that Lionel will put one in the Smithsonian museum in the same cage with the Hope (less) diamond.
Oh well another manufacturer is having a going out of business sale, no that is taking their business out side the USA so we can import more foreign nationals to ruin the job market that is already shot. In addition, thank you NAFTA. (No Americans For Today’s Applications.)

[Anonymous]

Am I correct in assuming that if Lionel died a horrible horrible death, no one here would give a damn, other than to hope that the other manufacturer's woke up?

[Anonymous]

Am I correct in assuming that if Lionel died a horrible horrible death, no one here would give a damn, other than to hope that the other manufacturer's woke up?

[Anonymous]

I don't think thats the case at all but if LIONEL, the premier O Scale company in this country, persists in this insanity we may all see a funeral of sorts. The final demise of LIONEL could occur because, unlike the early 70's when competition was stiff enough from Athern and Atlas, todays competition is 50 times stiffer and as I said in an earlier posting on this forum, there isn't any room in the HO market for a $700.00 diecast locomotive. Lets face it, how many people model RR's that operated these huge steamers, not many I would say, and with so many others on the market that are significantly lower in cost and just as nice, well it just doesn't take a rocket scienctist to figure out that LIONEL has bitten off a whole lot more than it can chew. Better to stay in O Scale and survive, than be considered an HO upstart trying to claw out a piece of a market dominated by the likes of ATLAS, ATHERN, PROTO, and KATO, just mention a few, who aren't going to give so much as an inch, and probably would like nothing better than to bury LIONEL for even having the audacity to enter the HO market to begin with.[V][V][V][V][V]

[Anonymous]

I don't think thats the case at all but if LIONEL, the premier O Scale company in this country, persists in this insanity we may all see a funeral of sorts. The final demise of LIONEL could occur because, unlike the early 70's when competition was stiff enough from Athern and Atlas, todays competition is 50 times stiffer and as I said in an earlier posting on this forum, there isn't any room in the HO market for a $700.00 diecast locomotive. Lets face it, how many people model RR's that operated these huge steamers, not many I would say, and with so many others on the market that are significantly lower in cost and just as nice, well it just doesn't take a rocket scienctist to figure out that LIONEL has bitten off a whole lot more than it can chew. Better to stay in O Scale and survive, than be considered an HO upstart trying to claw out a piece of a market dominated by the likes of ATLAS, ATHERN, PROTO, and KATO, just mention a few, who aren't going to give so much as an inch, and probably would like nothing better than to bury LIONEL for even having the audacity to enter the HO market to begin with.[V][V][V][V][V]

[AggroJones]

If I were to buy a new Challenger, I would wait for the Genesis one, which can be found for $380. They are much cheaper than the Lionel and they have basically the same features, but is metal.

[AggroJones]

If I were to buy a new Challenger, I would wait for the Genesis one, which can be found for $380. They are much cheaper than the Lionel and they have basically the same features, but is metal.

[Anonymous]

lIONEL HASN`T RETURNED! THEYV`E just ventured to see if people are that stupid![:(!]

[Anonymous]

lIONEL HASN`T RETURNED! THEYV`E just ventured to see if people are that stupid![:(!]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AAGJR

lIONEL HASN`T RETURNED! THEYV`E just ventured to see if people are that stupid![:(!]

Please, they might be listening, or are they. I have yet to see an announcment saying they've reconsidered. Hmmmmmmm; you know, you may just have a point.[:)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AAGJR

lIONEL HASN`T RETURNED! THEYV`E just ventured to see if people are that stupid![:(!]

Please, they might be listening, or are they. I have yet to see an announcment saying they've reconsidered. Hmmmmmmm; you know, you may just have a point.[:)]

[Anonymous]

Hey! Did anyone check which date Lionel announced their $700 HO loco? Maybe it was April 1st !
For only another $10 bucks you can buy a British Hornby model of the world record breaking Mallard for HO/OO scale - AND IT WORKS WITH REAL STEAM! Check IT out on their UK website at www.hornbyrailways.com

[Anonymous]

Hey! Did anyone check which date Lionel announced their $700 HO loco? Maybe it was April 1st !
For only another $10 bucks you can buy a British Hornby model of the world record breaking Mallard for HO/OO scale - AND IT WORKS WITH REAL STEAM! Check IT out on their UK website at www.hornbyrailways.com