mbinsewi John-NYBW As I said earlier, I have too much time and moneyinvested in it to simply walk away from it. I could never get back the time and only small fraction of the money. As I said in the OP, if I thought I could get back a tenth of the money I have invested in it, I would get out. Really???? I think you should find something different, as a hobby. Evidently, model railroading, as John Wayne once said in a movie, "doesn't fit your biscuit". "time and money" have nothing to do with a hobby. If you look at it as "time and money", than you better get out. Mike.
John-NYBW As I said earlier, I have too much time and moneyinvested in it to simply walk away from it. I could never get back the time and only small fraction of the money. As I said in the OP, if I thought I could get back a tenth of the money I have invested in it, I would get out.
Really???? I think you should find something different, as a hobby. Evidently, model railroading, as John Wayne once said in a movie, "doesn't fit your biscuit".
"time and money" have nothing to do with a hobby. If you look at it as "time and money", than you better get out.
Mike.
I was going to comment on the time and money thing as well.
I think of every dollar spend on model trains as no different than money spend on vacations or eating out. No way to get that money back either.......
Given a choice between a cruise or a model train layout, I will pick the model train layout every time.........in fact, I have.
Time, we have a limited amount of it, figure out what you really want and use it wisely........
A good friend of mine has a great saying, "In this life you can have ANYTHING you want, you just can't have EVERYTHING you want. Choose wisely."
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRALAs for making decals, no matter how much of a craftsman you want to be, some things are better done with a checkbook.......just my opinion.
So true.
I have traded decals with dozens of fellow model railroaders. The decal sheets with the "DM" or "Rail Graphics" logos are far superior to the ones that are printed at home.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
John-NYBW As I said earlier, I have too much time and money invested in it to simply walk away from it. I could never get back the time and only small fraction of the money. As I said in the OP, if I thought I could get back a tenth of the money I have invested in it, I would get out.
As I said earlier, I have too much time and money invested in it to simply walk away from it. I could never get back the time and only small fraction of the money. As I said in the OP, if I thought I could get back a tenth of the money I have invested in it, I would get out.
tstage So...you're saying you'd rather continue on this joyful path than cut your losses and move onto something you would enjoy better?
So...you're saying you'd rather continue on this joyful path than cut your losses and move onto something you would enjoy better?
My advice to the OP is to get out now before you create any more misery for yourself. And let's end this negative thread while we are at it.
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrainAnd let's end this negative thread while we are at it.
Not a bad idea.
I don't need these negative vibes harshing out my mellow.
John-NYBWMy gripe with model railroading is that it is too much work and not enough play and part of that reason is because things are always going wrong, even things that aren't directly related to the hobby such as my printer. I really enjoy running my trains and conducting operating sessions but at most that constitutes about 2% of the time I spend on this hobby. The rest is spent building and maintaining the the various components of the layout. I don't enjoy doing any of these tasks. Some I dislike more than others but unlike a lot of people, I do not enjoy the process. If I could afford it, I would have paid somebody to build my layout for me. Every bit of it. I'd also gladly pay somebody to handle the maintenance of it. I'm not someone who enjoys the journey. I want to get to the destination and that's not happening.
Is there a club in your area? Perhaps that is a solution. You could participate in op sessions there and not have to shoulder the entire building and maintenance on your own.
The club is a good idea. In all cases, it sounds like you like operating, so why not focus on that. Buy RTR stuff on sale or used. Stop messing around with decals (I loathe that aspect of the hobby too!). Buy diesel locomotives. Take a break from model railroading... as for the money, you can always sell what you don't use, but that to me sounds like a lot of effort for little gain. Bigones are bigones, that's how I see it.
Simon
The hobby can be as simple as this: Also note the X2F couplers.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
For years I was part of a round robin group. Only about half the guys had working layouts.
We meet at a different "layout" each week on a rotating schedule for operating sessions or for work sessions.
Some guys were building layouts, some had largely "complete" layouts, others were no where near having a layout for various reasons.
Maybe that's what John needs.
We all helped each other with problems and construction.
I left the group mainly because of family commitments and time conflicts, although I will admitt the group had changed some and no longer fit my modeling interests as well as it had in the past.
I had to decide how my time was best spent.
BRAKIEThe hobby can be as simple as this: Also note the X2F couplers.
That is a very stress-free way to enjoy model trains.
I admit that when I set up the sectional track and just run some trains, it makes me feel a bit like a kid again.
I would note that what the op was doing, custom logo, is ussually not done by the average model railroader. I am every bit the rivet counter, to a point, I am not going Proto 87 on track or scenery and have not aquired any rooling stock to that standard but settle for Intermountain and the like for rolling stock. I have above average skills but would don't do decals for the most part (yes I have done them well) because the frustration dose not equal the enjoyment of the final product.
rrebell I would note that what the op was doing, custom logo, is ussually not done by the average model railroader. I am every bit the rivet counter, to a point, I am not going Proto 87 on track or scenery and have not aquired any rooling stock to that standard but settle for Intermountain and the like for rolling stock. I have above average skills but would don't do decals for the most part (yes I have done them well) because the frustration dose not equal the enjoyment of the final product.
The creation of the decals has been the hard part made harder by a dead printer. I've found application of the decals for the most part has gone quite smoothly. I did have a short learning curve where I mangled a few but once I learned how to slide the decal off and position it where I want, it's gone very well. I was really impressed by the data only decals I ordered. I thought it was going to be really difficult working with decals that small, but they slid right off and were easy to position. They weren't nearly as flimsy as I thought they would be.
For what it's worth, I went to Staples at the suggestion of another poster and found it will be quite cheap to have them printed there. All I need is a flash drive to take the files to them. That's something I didn't have before but ordered from Amazon for less than $10. I priced printers and was amazed at how much they have soared in price since I last bought one. The low end ones run for $90 if you want one that will print at 8 1/2 X 11 sheets. The photo printers can be had for less. I checked on Amazon and in store at Walmart. It really didn't matter what Walmart was selling them for because they didn't have any in stock. When I asked the clerk why they didn't have any, he told me that they sold out as if that was nothing unusual. I can understand toilet paper and other staples selling out, but printers?
I've decided I can live without a printer. Other than the decals, about the only other thing I print are tax forms. Since that is once a year, I can print them at my library.
John-NYBW I can understand toilet paper and other staples selling out, but printers?
With so many people buildng "home offices" right now, there are a lot of computer accessories that are currently hard to find.
John-NYBWI went to Staples at the suggestion of another poster and found it will be quite cheap to have them printed there. All I need is a flash drive to take the files to them. That's something I didn't have before but ordered from Amazon for less than $10.
Couldn't you have purchased the flash drive at Staples?
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I'm not sure I understand this post at all?
Home made or custom made, I think a large percentage of freelance modelers create a logo as well as roadname decals.
Here are a few examples of mine:
All the multi color work done by putting one decal over another.
I rather enjoy the process.
schief John-NYBW My gripe with model railroading is that it is too much work and not enough play and part of that reason is because things are always going wrong, even things that aren't directly related to the hobby such as my printer. I really enjoy running my trains and conducting operating sessions but at most that constitutes about 2% of the time I spend on this hobby. The rest is spent building and maintaining the the various components of the layout. I don't enjoy doing any of these tasks. Some I dislike more than others but unlike a lot of people, I do not enjoy the process. If I could afford it, I would have paid somebody to build my layout for me. Every bit of it. I'd also gladly pay somebody to handle the maintenance of it. I'm not someone who enjoys the journey. I want to get to the destination and that's not happening. Is there a club in your area? Perhaps that is a solution. You could participate in op sessions there and not have to shoulder the entire building and maintenance on your own.
John-NYBW My gripe with model railroading is that it is too much work and not enough play and part of that reason is because things are always going wrong, even things that aren't directly related to the hobby such as my printer. I really enjoy running my trains and conducting operating sessions but at most that constitutes about 2% of the time I spend on this hobby. The rest is spent building and maintaining the the various components of the layout. I don't enjoy doing any of these tasks. Some I dislike more than others but unlike a lot of people, I do not enjoy the process. If I could afford it, I would have paid somebody to build my layout for me. Every bit of it. I'd also gladly pay somebody to handle the maintenance of it. I'm not someone who enjoys the journey. I want to get to the destination and that's not happening.
I've looked at severak clubs but none had layouts that were very impressive. One hadn't progressed much beyond the Plywood Central phase. Another was a modular club and the quality of the modules varied greatly. A few were very well done while others looked like they had been thrown together in an evening. There also didn't seem to be a cohesive theme. I know this will sound snooty but none of the ones I looked at were as far along as my own layout.
Several posters have asked why I stay in the hobby if it is causing me so much grief. I draw the analogy of running a marathon. If you only had a few miles to go but you were hurting like crazy and realized it was probably a mistake to do it in the first place, would you quit or would you press on to the finish? That's where I am at with my layout. I am getting very near to the point where I have a complete layout. Complete as opposed to finished because a model railroad is never finished. I define complete as all the track being installed and operational and some level of scenery everywhere. My frustration is due to the fact that the constant setbacks, some of my own doing and some not, are preventing me from reaching that completion stage. If I were to quit now, all the time and money I've put into it for the last 20 years would have been a waste.
I bought the book Linn Westcott wrote about John Allen's Gorre and Daphetid Railroad which went to press shortly after Linn passed away. I have it boxed away somewhere so I can't find the exact passage, but John Allen wrote a letter to one of his fellow modelers in which he expressed misgivings about whether the effort had been worthwhile. He still had one major bridge to build before the layout would be complete and until that was done, he had to operate the layout in the reverse of what he planned. Trains originating at Great Divide had to back out and travel in the opposite direction of what he planned. He knew his health was declining and he expressed the hope that he would be able to build that bridge and have at least a few years to operate the layout in the way he planned it. Sadly, he was never able to do that because he passed away shortly after that. I hope I have more than a few years left but who knows. I would have never guessed it would have taken me this long to get to where I am at now. It seems like I should have been able to complete the layout during the past few years but progress has become extremely slow because Murphy keeps showing up. If I had to do it over again I wouldn't have even started but that's not an option I have so I am going to press on and hope to reach a level of completion within a year or two. At the rate I'm going, I'm not going to make it.
tstage John-NYBW I went to Staples at the suggestion of another poster and found it will be quite cheap to have them printed there. All I need is a flash drive to take the files to them. That's something I didn't have before but ordered from Amazon for less than $10. Couldn't you have purchased the flash drive at Staples?
John-NYBW I went to Staples at the suggestion of another poster and found it will be quite cheap to have them printed there. All I need is a flash drive to take the files to them. That's something I didn't have before but ordered from Amazon for less than $10.
I could have but I went to Staples before I went to Walmart to price printers and didn't want to go back. I could probably have bought one at Walmart too but when I saw they had no printers in stock, I didn't want to bother looking for flash drives. Amazon is going to deliver it tomorrow.
snjroy The club is a good idea. In all cases, it sounds like you like operating, so why not focus on that. Buy RTR stuff on sale or used. Stop messing around with decals (I loathe that aspect of the hobby too!). Buy diesel locomotives. Take a break from model railroading... as for the money, you can always sell what you don't use, but that to me sounds like a lot of effort for little gain. Bigones are bigones, that's how I see it. Simon
It would be rather hard to create a plausible fictional railroad without lettering the locos and rolling stock for that railroad.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL rrebell I would note that what the op was doing, custom logo, is ussually not done by the average model railroader. I am every bit the rivet counter, to a point, I am not going Proto 87 on track or scenery and have not aquired any rooling stock to that standard but settle for Intermountain and the like for rolling stock. I have above average skills but would don't do decals for the most part (yes I have done them well) because the frustration dose not equal the enjoyment of the final product. I'm not sure I understand this post at all? Home made or custom made, I think a large percentage of freelance modelers create a logo as well as roadname decals.
At one time I had designed a decal but decided to just go with basic lettering. I can always add a logo later on if I decide it's worth the effort.
Hi John,
May I suggest that you simply take a break from the hobby? I have done it a couple of times when I just didn't feel that I was enjoying the work. You might be out of the hobby for a couple of weeks or maybe even six months, but I predict that after 40 years in the hobby you won't be able to just let it go, and you will feel refreshed when you come back.
Whatever you do, don't sell everything! Maybe cull the herd a bit, but giving your stuff away for next to nothing will not make you happy!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
ATLANTIC CENTRAL rrebell I would note that what the op was doing, custom logo, is ussually not done by the average model railroader. I am every bit the rivet counter, to a point, I am not going Proto 87 on track or scenery and have not aquired any rooling stock to that standard but settle for Intermountain and the like for rolling stock. I have above average skills but would don't do decals for the most part (yes I have done them well) because the frustration dose not equal the enjoyment of the final product. I'm not sure I understand this post at all? Home made or custom made, I think a large percentage of freelance modelers create a logo as well as roadname decals. Here are a few examples of mine: All the multi color work done by putting one decal over another. I rather enjoy the process. Sheldon
rrebellNot you, average modeler. In fact I have never met a person in person who has done custom homeroad decals and I have been involved in more than one club and orginization.
Not sure I understand the reply.
Are you saying you never met anyone that painted and decalled their own equipment for a private roadname with decals they designed?
How is that possible? I have met dozens and I generally try to avoid model railroaders.
Yep, that is what I am saying, have talked to people who were talking about doing it but they never did. Accually I have met few that even did a lot of decaling, done very little myself. Maybe that is a west coast thing, people have more options here, you can surf in the morning and ski in the evening out here so model railroading is not as big out here than when I was on the east coast.
Maybe it is just one of those things where if you do it, you naturally meet more people that do the same thing.
Like being a Brony.
I have never met anyone that takes a private roadname to the extreme that I do. Having designed so many different phases for decorating the basic 40 foot boxcar, and making decals for each one. Designing different paint schemes for different diesel locmotives and services. Designing a paint scheme for an expedited LCL freight service, and so on.
John-NYBW drgwcs Seems like the current problem is more technology than Model Railroading. I have had more than one printer go rogue. Take a breather and step away for a couple of days. Sometimes working on a different area helps and it makes things more enjoyable. I prepped about ten pieces for decaling and got about halfway through. (The ones with individual letters were getting to me......) Set them aside and worked on more trackwork. I had the same thing building a lot of structures for the club- I had to take a break from building them- I commented I was getting "structural fatigue." As for getting things out of our "investment" we probably never will. I am a "bargain shopper" and as such maybe I come out better. We have to look at it as entertainment- right now it does not seem to be so entertaining but give it a few days and it will seem easier. My gripe with model railroading is that it is too much work and not enough play and part of that reason is because things are always going wrong, even things that aren't directly related to the hobby such as my printer. I really enjoy running my trains and conducting operating sessions but at most that constitutes about 2% of the time I spend on this hobby. The rest is spent building and maintaining the the various components of the layout. I don't enjoy doing any of these tasks. Some I dislike more than others but unlike a lot of people, I do not enjoy the process. If I could afford it, I would have paid somebody to build my layout for me. Every bit of it. I'd also gladly pay somebody to handle the maintenance of it. I'm not someone who enjoys the journey. I want to get to the destination and that's not happening.
drgwcs Seems like the current problem is more technology than Model Railroading. I have had more than one printer go rogue. Take a breather and step away for a couple of days. Sometimes working on a different area helps and it makes things more enjoyable. I prepped about ten pieces for decaling and got about halfway through. (The ones with individual letters were getting to me......) Set them aside and worked on more trackwork. I had the same thing building a lot of structures for the club- I had to take a break from building them- I commented I was getting "structural fatigue." As for getting things out of our "investment" we probably never will. I am a "bargain shopper" and as such maybe I come out better. We have to look at it as entertainment- right now it does not seem to be so entertaining but give it a few days and it will seem easier.
Seems like the current problem is more technology than Model Railroading. I have had more than one printer go rogue. Take a breather and step away for a couple of days. Sometimes working on a different area helps and it makes things more enjoyable. I prepped about ten pieces for decaling and got about halfway through. (The ones with individual letters were getting to me......) Set them aside and worked on more trackwork. I had the same thing building a lot of structures for the club- I had to take a break from building them- I commented I was getting "structural fatigue." As for getting things out of our "investment" we probably never will. I am a "bargain shopper" and as such maybe I come out better. We have to look at it as entertainment- right now it does not seem to be so entertaining but give it a few days and it will seem easier.
My gripe with model railroading is that it is too much work and not enough play and part of that reason is because things are always going wrong, even things that aren't directly related to the hobby such as my printer. I really enjoy running my trains and conducting operating sessions but at most that constitutes about 2% of the time I spend on this hobby. The rest is spent building and maintaining the the various components of the layout. I don't enjoy doing any of these tasks. Some I dislike more than others but unlike a lot of people, I do not enjoy the process. If I could afford it, I would have paid somebody to build my layout for me. Every bit of it. I'd also gladly pay somebody to handle the maintenance of it. I'm not someone who enjoys the journey. I want to get to the destination and that's not happening.
I'm a firm believer that the pursuit of technology within hobbies is a subhobby itself. Some like that aspect and some think the time spent detracts from the hobby.
I say go with DC, or at least avoid onboard sound and have silent DCC. Run one train at a time. Stick with Athearn BB rolling stock, Accurail kits or RTR, Atlas Trainman, or even the new Walthers Mainline products are really nicely done.
Don't have a lot of blocks. Don't have spaghetti bowls of track, filled with reversing loops.
Keep it simple, and you'll discover that the model railroad products are very reliable and durable.
Get too proto specific with details, too complex with operations, pursue realism to the nth degree in every aspect of the hobby and you'll probably have a lot less time available for running trains.
The same could be said for life in general, IMO.
- Douglas
John-NYBW snjroy The club is a good idea. In all cases, it sounds like you like operating, so why not focus on that. Buy RTR stuff on sale or used. Stop messing around with decals (I loathe that aspect of the hobby too!). Buy diesel locomotives. Take a break from model railroading... as for the money, you can always sell what you don't use, but that to me sounds like a lot of effort for little gain. Bigones are bigones, that's how I see it. Simon It would be rather hard to create a plausible fictional railroad without lettering the locos and rolling stock for that railroad.
Agreed, but what are custom decals?
Here's an image my favorite decals for applying my RRs name on my locos. All I need is a small tupperware of water, some microset, and blue painters tape to set a line.
And for painting the loco shell, all that's needed is a tennis ball container of 90% alcohol to strip whatever road name my used loco came painted in, a can of Krylon Satin Black, a bent coat hanger to hold the loco away from my hand, and a sunny day.
Take out the number boards first, reuse, and number the loco accordingly.
rrebell Yep, that is what I am saying, have talked to people who were talking about doing it but they never did. Accually I have met few that even did a lot of decaling, done very little myself. Maybe that is a west coast thing, people have more options here, you can surf in the morning and ski in the evening out here so model railroading is not as big out here than when I was on the east coast.
Maybe the west coast just attracts a different kind of person in the first place..........
There is plenty to do here all year round d rather than build trains, but some people choose to build trains as their primary hobby activity.
I have no interest in surfing, and lost interest in sking once I mastered it reasonably well.
Doughless John-NYBW drgwcs Seems like the current problem is more technology than Model Railroading. I have had more than one printer go rogue. Take a breather and step away for a couple of days. Sometimes working on a different area helps and it makes things more enjoyable. I prepped about ten pieces for decaling and got about halfway through. (The ones with individual letters were getting to me......) Set them aside and worked on more trackwork. I had the same thing building a lot of structures for the club- I had to take a break from building them- I commented I was getting "structural fatigue." As for getting things out of our "investment" we probably never will. I am a "bargain shopper" and as such maybe I come out better. We have to look at it as entertainment- right now it does not seem to be so entertaining but give it a few days and it will seem easier. My gripe with model railroading is that it is too much work and not enough play and part of that reason is because things are always going wrong, even things that aren't directly related to the hobby such as my printer. I really enjoy running my trains and conducting operating sessions but at most that constitutes about 2% of the time I spend on this hobby. The rest is spent building and maintaining the the various components of the layout. I don't enjoy doing any of these tasks. Some I dislike more than others but unlike a lot of people, I do not enjoy the process. If I could afford it, I would have paid somebody to build my layout for me. Every bit of it. I'd also gladly pay somebody to handle the maintenance of it. I'm not someone who enjoys the journey. I want to get to the destination and that's not happening. I'm a firm believer that the pursuit of technology within hobbies is a subhobby itself. Some like that aspect and some think the time spent detracts from the hobby. I say go with DC, or at least avoid onboard sound and have silent DCC. Run one train at a time. Stick with Athearn BB rolling stock, Accurail kits or RTR, Atlas Trainman, or even the new Walthers Mainline products are really nicely done. Don't have a lot of blocks. Don't have spaghetti bowls of track, filled with reversing loops. Keep it simple, and you'll discover that the model railroad products are very reliable and durable. Get too proto specific with details, too complex with operations, pursue realism to the nth degree in every aspect of the hobby and you'll probably have a lot less time available for running trains. The same could be said for life in general, IMO.
And if that kind of modeling satisfies you, great, have fun.
I keep a lot of stuff simple and old school too, other aspects I need to be more advanced.
We each find our own balance.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Doughless I'm a firm believer that the pursuit of technology within hobbies is a subhobby itself. Some like that aspect, and some think the time spent detracts from the hobby. I say go with DC, or at least avoid onboard sound and have silent DCC. Run one train at a time. Stick with Athearn BB rolling stock, Accurail kits or RTR, Atlas Trainman, or even the new Walthers Mainline products are really nicely done. Don't have a lot of blocks. Don't have spaghetti bowls of track, filled with reversing loops. Keep it simple, and you'll discover that the model railroad products are very reliable and durable. Get too proto specific with details, too complex with operations, pursue realism to the nth degree in every aspect of the hobby and you'll probably have a lot less time available for running trains. The same could be said for life in general, IMO. And if that kind of modeling satisfies you, great, have fun. I keep a lot of stuff simple and old school too, other aspects I need to be more advanced. We each find our own balance. Sheldon
Doughless I'm a firm believer that the pursuit of technology within hobbies is a subhobby itself. Some like that aspect, and some think the time spent detracts from the hobby. I say go with DC, or at least avoid onboard sound and have silent DCC. Run one train at a time. Stick with Athearn BB rolling stock, Accurail kits or RTR, Atlas Trainman, or even the new Walthers Mainline products are really nicely done. Don't have a lot of blocks. Don't have spaghetti bowls of track, filled with reversing loops. Keep it simple, and you'll discover that the model railroad products are very reliable and durable. Get too proto specific with details, too complex with operations, pursue realism to the nth degree in every aspect of the hobby and you'll probably have a lot less time available for running trains. The same could be said for life in general, IMO.
I'm a firm believer that the pursuit of technology within hobbies is a subhobby itself. Some like that aspect, and some think the time spent detracts from the hobby.
Sure. Staging tracks are pretty reliable. So are power routing turnouts for parking trains on passing sidings. So are many other things beyind the basics, and the more time someone devotes to developing the skills, things become more reliable too, in a way.
Considering all of the trains we have a choice of modeling, the amount of locos and rolling stock that have run in their as-built form and paint is probably pretty low, and many railroads took whatever was available and even removed details they didn't need. Large class IIs look this way. There may not be a common look to anything, except a few letters or a name.
Maybe that wasn't as prevelant during the specific steam era, where railroading was king and each railroad bought everything new from the factories to their railroad specific specifications.
I'm not very picky. I like all trains of all eras and would welcome almost any kind of layout as long as it was realistic. 1910 logging to transisition, transistion to merger, and merger to today. I choose to model what is more easier to accomplish; well, at least that's a big part of it.
If it gets to be to time consuming, getting in over one's head so to speak; find something else to model. I guess if a person has only one thing to model and nothing else, that's a complication...or a restriction....that can create frustration also, IMO.
With so many suggesting the same thing, I don't have more to contribute except the value of finding a club or mentor. Who ever mentioned that being a lone wolf is not a great option in this hobby? Correct that this hobby requires money, time, and energy. What hobby doesn't? Walking away recharges the batteries.
Alot are lone wolves because there are not alot of optins.