The Joy of Installing Hand Grab Irons

[gmpullman]

Still, the nice thing about the General Tool is the geared reduction to 100 RPM.

The specs on those little motors are such:

Specifications:
Material: Metal + Electronic Component
Power Consumption: DC 12V / 500mA
Collet Inner Diameter: 0.5mm, 1.0mm, 1.5mm, 2.5mm, 3.0mm
Drill Diameter: 0.5mm, 1.0mm, 1.5mm, 2.5mm, 3.0mm
Torsion: 530g/cm
No Load Speed: 12000rpm
Load Speed: 8000rpm

Some have collets, others four-jaw and it looks like the one Dave linked to has a three jaw.

I've got several Dremel-type tools, 110V. corded, cordless and the flex shaft one. Although handy for some things, drilling a #78 hole is not one of them. I don't see where those direct-drive motor shaft tools would be any better than a Dremel.

Just last night I made six holes, #42 drill, in the floor of a brass passenger car. The General drill bore down and a nice hole was made in about 30 seconds.

There is a little slop in the gear reduction but for $15. I'm not going to complain.

I just bought a second one to use as they market it, as a power screwdriver.

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Here's a similar model to the one Dave shows but it includes a variable speed power supply. Still pretty high RPM for drilling, though.

https://tinyurl.com/uju62r4 

 

Cheers, Ed

[SeeYou190]

gmpullman

Although handy for some things, drilling a #78 hole is not one of them.

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The smallest hole I drill with the 4.8 volt Dremel tool would be #65 which is about 0.033" I think.

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I don't have a steady enough hand to try and drill #78 with any power tool.

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-Kevin

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[hon30critter]

maxman

Is that a 3 or 4 jaw chuck?

Good question! I don't know.

I will test it as soon as I get it and if it doesn't work as hoped I will return it.

Ed makes a good point about it being a direct drive. If I lower the speed enough to make it useable as a powered pin vice, it may not have enough torque to do anything.

I bought it through Amazon so, as I said, I can return it. They even pay the return shipping in most cases.

Dave

Edit:

I decided to cancel the order based on the fact that there was no reduction gearing.

Dave

[JPD]

trwroute, I like your approach for painting the grab irons and will try it next time.

And thanks everyone for the suggestions, a lot to digest and consider.

[CapnCrunch]

Thanks to everyone for this very informative thread!  Since this is all new to me, I have a few basic questions. 

1.  If the holes are drilled all the way through the car body, do the ends of the grab rails protrude beyond the inside wall or are the rails just the right length so they can be mounted flush with the inside wall?

2.  In either case, how do you deal with the holes or protrusions that can be seen on the inside of a gondola?

3.  Some of the rails are bent down 90 degrees.  Do you make those bends before inserting the grab rails or after they have been installed?

Thanks,

Tim 

[mbinsewi]

Yes, the holes go through the car body, what I do is after the holes are drilled, and the grab irons are in the holes, I use a piece of styrene, usually .04 thickness, to set the depth of the grabs, than bend the back side over against the car body, and glue, with CA from the back.

I get mine here:

https://www.tichytraingroup.com/Shop/tabid/91/c/grabirons/Default.aspx

You can get straight or the drop type (the ones you refer to as "bent down 90 degrees).

On a gondola, since you can clearly see the inside surface, I use the CA to glue the grabs in place, and then trim off the ends that stick inside the car, and maybe cover with a paint match to the gondola, if they show at all.

Hopefully Dr. Wayne will see this, and amaze you with some of his grab iron work.

Mike.

[SeeYou190]

hon30critter

I know that you do a lot of work, but that still seems like a lot of broken drills.

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Dave... Three reasons for broken drill bits.

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1) A lot of resin car kits have the holes for the grabs irons lined up nearly even with the inside thckness of the car end. When this is drilled, the drill will either grab awkwardly into the end casting and snap, or it well bend into the void and snap. The way these kits are made it is not possible to cast a lip onto the inside of the car end to prevent this. Drilling corner grabs in the roof can have the same result.

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2) Just plain recklessness... I have so darned many drill bits that I know I will not run out, so I do a lot of stunts that I know will probably break the bit, but it does not matter, I have plenty. When I start to run low I will become more careful. Right now there are no consequences for carelessness.

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3) My right arm has nerve damage, and sometimes I shake or tremor, and there goes another #78 drill bit into the trash.

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-Kevin

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[doctorwayne]

CapnCrunch

Thanks to everyone for this very informative thread!  Since this is all new to me, I have a few basic questions. 

1.  If the holes are drilled all the way through the car body, do the ends of the grab rails protrude beyond the inside wall or are the rails just the right length so they can be mounted flush with the inside wall?

On closed cars - boxcars, reefers, passenger cars, etc., the wire protrudes into the carbody.  I put a styrene spacer strip, .030" or .040" thick, between the outer sides of the car and the grabirons - use a piece narrower than the grabirons' width, because if the spacer is touching the wire where it protrudes into the car, the ca may wick-out along the wire, cementing the spacer to the car's side.

With the spacer in place, I put a finger of my free hand on the grabirons, pushing them tight against the spacer, then, using an old #11 blade in my X-Acto, bend-over the portion of the grabirons which protrude into the car.  With the grabirons still held tight to the spacer, I apply ca to the bent-over wire inside the car.

The procedure is the same for open cars, such as gondolas and hoppers, but once the ca has hardened, the knife blade can be used to re-straighten the bent-over portion of wire, then re-bent and straightened a couple of times until the excess wire fatigues and breaks off.

Here are a couple of scratchbuilt gondolas built on Tichy flatcars...

CapnCrunch

2.  In either case, how do you deal with the holes or protrusions that can be seen on the inside of a gondola? 

I many cases, I've left them in place, but eventually went back and did the procedure mentioned above.

CapnCrunch

3.  Some of the rails are bent down 90 degrees.  Do you make those bends before inserting the grab rails or after they have been installed?

Thanks,

Tim  

You can buy the drop-style grabirons, along with the straight ones, from Tichy, along with some other styles rendered in plastic.
Tichy also offers phosphor-bronze wire in various thicknesses, if you wish to bend your own - some cars require non-standard widths.

There's some info HERE on bending your own grabirons.

This Red Caboose boxcar (and two others modelled with the same number, differing only in their re-weigh dates and weathering) are modelled on a real car which I used as an example to add the details necessary to create a standard PRR X-29 boxcar that had been modified into an express car suitable for use in high-speed passenger and express trains.  Such cars had a totally different schedule of safety appliances than regular freight cars...

I also replaced all of the plastic free-standing grabirons on my Proto2000 stockcars...

...and tank cars...

I made 8 of these heavily modified Athearn Blue Box boxcars, which use a non-standard width for the side grabirons...

...and this Accurail reefer was backdated by shaving-off the cast-on ladders and grabirons, replacing them with metal ones...

This old MDC covered hopper, along with several similar cars, was upgraded with hatches and outlet details from Bowser, then all of the very heavy cast-on grabirons were removed and replaced with wire...

I have a few more of those to do, and perhaps 50 or 60 open hoppers needing the same grabiron replacements, before all cars have been upgraded.

Wayne

[CapnCrunch]

Many thanks to Doctor Wayne and Mike for the thorough explanations.  Doctor Wayne, the detailing on your models is remarkable...the cars are truly works-of-art.

Tim

[doctorwayne]

And thank you, Tim, for your kind comment.

Wayne

[SeeYou190]

When painting the replacement grab irons it is best to use a color slightly lighter than the body color to simulate sunlight refliecting off of the protruding elements.

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This helps on non-replacement grab irons also.

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-Kevin

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