Soundtraxx to help dying Local Hobby Shop's battle evil Internet

[rrinker]

I just had to dig out a 10 year old Model Railroader to check an article. I happened to find Digitrax's add. They were advertising decoders 'starting at' $49.95. That's an absolute rock-bottom low end decoder, no back EMF, no silent running, lights only. Today you can get a TCS decoder that HAS all those features PLUS lighting effects PLUS it's smaller for 1/4 of that.

As for kadee couplers - yeah the knock-offs sure got them to lower their prices, but I have equipments with all sorts of brands - Accumates, P2K, and even two cars with some EZ-Mates because that's all the lousy excuse for a LHS had and I needed knuckle couplers. Plus older stuff I converted before the copies were available, so they have real Kadees in them. About the only ones I haven't tried so far is McHenry. And you know what, all those other ones I have STINK (well, I wanted to use a different word, but let's keep it clean, this is a family hobby after all..). The EZ-Mates are probably the worse, they fit poorly and will need all sorts of shimming to keep them level and stop the wobbling around the mounting pin. The 3-piece Accumates are a pain in the posterior too, keeping it all together as you try to install it into the coupler pocket, only to find you pinched one of the plastic hair springs when putting the lid on, or ou didn;t have the 'air hose' jammed in hard enough and it falls out. The P2K oes have a tendecney to spring out past the normal 'open' position if they get bumped while assembling the locomotives they come on, and never can be put back in place. It really seems at least in the coupler business you get what you pay for - I am switching all the non-Kadee ones I have to Kadees, as I am rapidly tiring of the various problems with the others, and if this is the kind of issues I'm goign to have when I'm just 'playing around' with the trains while building my layout, I can only imagine the nightmare trying to actually OPERATE with this junk would be.

--Randy

[Paul3]

rockythegoat wrote:

QUOTE: is kadee an excellent company? Yes. did they develop an excellent automatic coupler for us to use as opposed to the "horn-hook" one? Undoubtedly. did they reduce prices only once competition hit the streets? looks like it to me in my experience

Unfortunately, your experience is incorrect. After a little dive into the MR archives at my house, I have determined the following:

Sometime between September 1995 and January 1996, Kadee started selling 10- and 20-packs of #5 couplers w/o boxes. In the January 1996 MR, there is at least one dealer selling 10- and 20- packs of Kadees w/o boxes. In this same issue, there is no mention of any other knuckle coupler available, IOW, there are no ads for McHenry (who was the first among the clones, IIRC). Futhermore, there are no other couplers advertised in September 1995.

Sometime later in 1996, McHenry annouced their "New" plastic coupler for sale, as it is in my September 1996 MR. Unfortunately, I am missing Feb-Aug for 1996, so I can't pin-point it (but I can when I get to my club's library tomorrow).

The result is that Kadee did in fact release 10- and 20-packs of couplers before the plastic clones hit the market. It wasn't by much, but it was a pre-emptive strike by Kadee, not reactive. It would only make sense, they would know all too well when their patents would be running out.

What I find amazing is that Kadee makes their couplers available for less money, and still they get grief for it because they didn't do it soon enough. Sigh. It goes to show you just can't win. The same thing happened to Athearn with their Challenger. They dropped prices and what was the lament? Geez...

dkelly wrote:

QUOTE: I think the prices you point re: Kadee couplers from 1993 until now is a significant price drop. 2.95 then and 3.25 now? That's about a 10% increase over 11 years. Check out the 1993 price for gasoline, cars and the house your living in. Would love to buy your house for 10% more than its market price in 1993.

Well, using the Inflation Calculator on the NASA website (http://www1.jsc.nasa.gov/bu2/inflateCPI.html), and that I also have a 1991 Walthers Catalog that also prices #5's at $2.95 for 2 pair, I some up with the following:

$2.95 (in 1991) should equal (in 2003, latest year for calculator) $3.99. Actual price in 2004: $3.25.

A while back (27 Sep 2004), someone once posted the figures for a #5 2-pair pack of Kadees for 1979. willy6 wrote: 1979 Kadee #5 couplers(#380-5) $2.20. Plugging that into the calculator, a 2-pair pack of Kadee #5's should be around $5.57 these days.

Paul A. Cutler III
*****************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
*****************

[Bikerdad]

MAP Policies currently reside in a turbulent zone of law.

http://www.fredlaw.com/articles/marketing/mark_0401_qtj.html

http://www.freebornpeters.com/docs/publication/DFD4AFF1-F509-4715-A828-BA99492DB562_document.pdf

[Anonymous]

Paul,

Interesting numbers. Thanks for doing the legwork on it.

One other thing that folks should take into consideration. While folks have correctly pointed out that Kadee needed to recoup their R and D costs (which I agree should have already been recouped over the years) their are other nontangibles that need to be taken into account - and for which I do not begrudge Kadee for keeping the price of their couplers a little high during the life of their patent.

The two guys who founded Kadee set the standard for couplers. They had to incurr advertising and marketing costs (ads, attending shows etc) to get the word out. The nowday clones just had to produce clones to match the accepted standard. The Kadee guys also had to start a product and company from scratch. It wouldn't surprise me that in order to get start up capital they deeply robbed their savings or possibly mortgaged their houses. I can't even begin to imagine the risk involved and the stress that that occurred.

Should Kadee have made their invention free for the industry or patent the coupler? I'm unsure about this one. The MTH DCC thing is an example of bad patent protection in my opinion. Related to this is the fact that the NMRA dropped the ball on couplers by refusing to adopt a standard (the horn hook is not an NMRA standard even though it is called sometimes the NMRA coupler) unlike with DCC. Kadee stepped up where the hobby didn't. On the other hand, you don't see much of Rapido which made their N-Scale couplers for use by everyone no cost (and btw was the industry standard for years) and no one can forget what happened to IBM by allowing open architecture for their PC's. This issue can probably be batted around forever.

Bottom line. It appears that the Kadee couplers are superior to others on the market. Kadee has also in my opinion always supported the hobby and I don't mind supporting it.

Just my opinion.

[MAbruce]

I think we all need to stop, take one big step back, and ask an important question:

Just who is this member “Minuteman” and is he/she really a representative of Soundtraxx? The post was suspect, the title contained a provocative remark against the internet (something any dealer or manufacturer would not likely do), and the member profile is blank! Don't you think a real rep would formally identify him/herself???

Until this member can verify his/her identity, I think we all should take this information with a HUGE grain of salt. It could be a troll trying to stir things up here (which did happen).

[Bergie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by PARKERLEGEND

That does not mean jack to me dawg. The prices are not going down! They will remain the same for us "Consumers" but the prices may go down for the local hobby guy. Those stupid *** tiny units cost more than a dvd player. Innovation in the Model railroader hobby is not like in the electronic business of games, music, tv, etc. In fact they are opposites!!!

DVD player 5 years ago $499
DVD player today $59

Plasma Tv 3 years ago $20,000
Plasma Tv today $3,000

Home PC 5 years ago $999+
Home PC today $400

Cell phones 10 years ago $1000+
Cell phones today Free-$400 for camcoders+camera

Camcorders 10 years ago $1000+
Camcorders today $200

DCC 4 years ago $500
DCC today $500

Decoder 4 years ago $30
Decder today $30

Soundtraxx 3 years ago $119
Soundtraxx today $119

Atlas track 5 years ago Cheaper
atlas track today MORE

Plaster cloth 2 year agos $6.59
Plaster cloth today $8.19

*** is crazy man. With new innovations and easier manufacturing in this shtuff the prices seem to only rise. This is especially for the electronic stuff in this hobby compared to other electronic stuff.
Some of the prices are not accurate but they are close.

First, clean up your language. I don't want swearing here... I don't care if you use symbols to mask your swearing. It's still swearing.

Second, comparing DCC products in a niche marketing with a mass market DVD player doesn't work. Go to Google and search for economy of scale. DVD players have gone down in price because they've made, and continue to make, hundreds of thousands of them. You can't say the same thing for DCC equipment.

Erik