SeeYou190 ATLANTIC CENTRAL I guess that's why I'm not a war gamer........ . You would be a magnificent wargamer, just probably not fantasy. . Based on your posts, I can honestly picture you commanding a section of a Napoleanic force in an historical scenario and having a great time. . You are always welcome to come to an HMGS/South convention in Orlando and give it try. Zero investment, and we are a very welcoming bunch. Pete would love to have you on the grid. . I'll be in the other room playing Zombies or something. . -Kevin .
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I guess that's why I'm not a war gamer........
.
You would be a magnificent wargamer, just probably not fantasy.
Based on your posts, I can honestly picture you commanding a section of a Napoleanic force in an historical scenario and having a great time.
You are always welcome to come to an HMGS/South convention in Orlando and give it try. Zero investment, and we are a very welcoming bunch. Pete would love to have you on the grid.
I'll be in the other room playing Zombies or something.
-Kevin
Maybe, but the War Between the States would be more my interest, just yesterday I was reading General John Gordan's essay on the causes of the war.......
But I'm not likely to travel 1000 miles for war gaming or model train socializing........
Sheldon
If I can do a quick comment re the original post - and I haven't read all the subsequent replies, so sorry if someone's already said this - but it seems to me a lot people interested in prototype modelling spend a lot of time researching what railroad / period they want to model, and then, after deciding what they want to do, start to look at what if anything is available to model that railroad, place, and time. It may work better to look at what's available first, then determine what you want to do based somewhat on that.
For example, if you really want to model steam railroading, you're going to have a much easier time modelling the Pennsylvania, New York Central, Norfolk & Western, or Union Pacific because so many accurate steam engine models have been made for those railroads. Unless you have the money to buy primarily (or exclusively) brass engines, or are a talented scratchbuilder or kitbasher, modelling many other railroads accurately are going to be difficult, just based on locomotives.
Then, beyond engines, what is available for cabooses, passenger cars, stations etc.? Same issue, some railroads are well represented, others hardly at all.
ATLANTIC CENTRALMaybe, but the War Between the States would be more my interest,
Really?
There is a very popular war game for the American Civil War called Battle Cry that was written by a man named Richard Borg.
Richard Borg lives in Orlando, and he runs the Battle Cry game every year at HurriCon. Playing the game with the rules writer as the official is a thrill, and it sure cuts down on interpretation arguments.
Almost as thrilling as the time I played a game of Ogre with Steve Jackson himself.
wjstix after deciding what they want to do, start to look at what if anything is available to model that railroad,
That is great advice. I cannot imagine going through a time of accurate research just to find out that it cannot be built because I lack the skills to scratchbuild and nothing RTR is available.
Living the dream.
wjstix If I can do a quick comment re the original post - and I haven't read all the subsequent replies, so sorry if someone's already said this - but it seems to me a lot people interested in prototype modelling spend a lot of time researching what railroad / period they want to model, and then, after deciding what they want to do, start to look at what if anything is available to model that railroad, place, and time. It may work better to look at what's available first, then determine what you want to do based somewhat on that. For example, if you really want to model steam railroading, you're going to have a much easier time modelling the Pennsylvania, New York Central, Norfolk & Western, or Union Pacific because so many accurate steam engine models have been made for those railroads. Unless you have the money to buy primarily (or exclusively) brass engines, or are a talented scratchbuilder or kitbasher, modelling many other railroads accurately are going to be difficult, just based on locomotives. Then, beyond engines, what is available for cabooses, passenger cars, stations etc.? Same issue, some railroads are well represented, others hardly at all.
The way I interpret the OP's original post is his desire not only to capture the prototype, but to capture it in minute detail; at least as minutely as possible.
He's done quite a bit of research and has found plans and specs and historical photos . . . enough info to accomplish the task. And he has the tools and the talent to pull it off. The issue is the amount of time and effort it would take to see his vision materialize.
He wants to build an uncompressed model of the Chicago Grand Central Station, circa 1950 or so. Great! I support that effort wholeheartedly. I have seen the historical plans and other info, and I estimate such a project would take me about 200 or so hours. Maybe more. Maybe a lot more. That's modeling hours; and since I have to waste a lot of time at my day job, that would work out to about six calendar months. A reasonable and thoroughly enjoyable way to spend those six months . . . but we're talking about a single building, and the OP wants a dozen or so such buildings and structures, plus street scenes and track work and all the other stuff that goes into a layout.
He gets a lot of credit for his vision and ambition, and loses no points whatsoever for adapting his plans to the reality of the situation.
Just my opinion, of course.
Robert
LINK to SNSR Blog
ROBERT PETRICK wjstix If I can do a quick comment re the original post - and I haven't read all the subsequent replies, so sorry if someone's already said this - but it seems to me a lot people interested in prototype modelling spend a lot of time researching what railroad / period they want to model, and then, after deciding what they want to do, start to look at what if anything is available to model that railroad, place, and time. It may work better to look at what's available first, then determine what you want to do based somewhat on that. For example, if you really want to model steam railroading, you're going to have a much easier time modelling the Pennsylvania, New York Central, Norfolk & Western, or Union Pacific because so many accurate steam engine models have been made for those railroads. Unless you have the money to buy primarily (or exclusively) brass engines, or are a talented scratchbuilder or kitbasher, modelling many other railroads accurately are going to be difficult, just based on locomotives. Then, beyond engines, what is available for cabooses, passenger cars, stations etc.? Same issue, some railroads are well represented, others hardly at all. The way I interpret the OP's original post is his desire not only to capture the prototype, but to capture it in minute detail; at least as minutely as possible. He's done quite a bit of research and has found plans and specs and historical photos . . . enough info to accomplish the task. And he has the tools and the talent to pull it off. The issue is the amount of time and effort it would take to see his vision materialize. He wants to build an uncompressed model of the Chicago Grand Central Station, circa 1950 or so. Great! I support that effort wholeheartedly. I have seen the historical plans and other info, and I estimate such a project would take me about 200 or so hours. Maybe more. Maybe a lot more. That's modeling hours; and since I have to waste a lot of time at my day job, that would work out to about six calendar months. A reasonable and thoroughly enjoyable way to spend those six months . . . but we're talking about a single building, and the OP wants a dozen or so such buildings and structures, plus street scenes and track work and all the other stuff that goes into a layout. He gets a lot of credit for his vision and ambition, and loses no points whatsoever for adapting his plans to the reality of the situation. Just my opinion, of course. Robert
Robert,
You are spot on with your assessments. You followed along with my designing of the trusses for the train shed. You have a good idea of the massive size and details of the station and train shed.
My original post was originally intended as meaning "does trying to get every little detail correct" drive you crazy? I spent so much time looking at photos and gathering info on so much I don't even really need. I did enjoy the research, but I now realize how much time it has taken away from building.
I'm still going to go though with my original intentions. If I don't get every detail correct, so be it. I'm just going to tackle the layout one section at a time and try not to get frustrated by little complicated nuances that only I will notice.
I have decided Grand Central Station will sit tucked in a corner of my layout. Therefore, I will only need to model the south and west facing sides of the building. That will save a lot of time, material, and eliminate a lot of complex details. This will not diminish the quality of the layout at all in my opinion.
This is a photo from Custom Model Railroad. They are currently building a model on Grand Central for a customer. I will only be modeling the sides of the building you see in this photo.
CMR1
The building will sit tucked in a corner like this.
Grand_Central_Station,_201_West_Harrison_Street_(Corner_of_West_Harrison_and_South_Wells),_Chicago,_Cook_County,_IL_HABS_ILL,16-CHIG,18-_(sheet_2_of_4)_LI
To me, this is a good step in simplifying. Why model what you can't see?
Ed
Semi newbie HO scale modeler coming from the O scale world
SeeYou190Too bad that there is so little fantasy model railroading. Other than Thomas and Lego, what is really an option?
There have been a number of Middle Earth model railroads over the years and some are currently active. Many of these use either off-the-shelf or modified British-outline rolling stock, sometimes narrow gauge. The internet search string "Middle Earth model railroad" yields some interesting results. A similar search on “Discworld model railroad” also brings up a few layouts.
I've designed a couple of layouts based on those books and also a layout based on Warner Brothers cartoons (Road Runner, Bugs Bunny, etc.). Unfortunately, none of these have been built as yet.
So it’s really only limited by imagination.
Byron
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
mrrdadThis is a photo from Custom Model Railroad.
Let me see if I can make the images you referenced visible
Thanks.
I was just in the process of fixing that.
mrrdad My original post was originally intended as meaning "does trying to get every little detail correct" drive you crazy? I spent so much time looking at photos and gathering info on so much I don't even really need. I did enjoy the research, but I now realize how much time it has taken away from building.
For what it's worth, I have never really found any harm in having too much data when doing research. It's a lot easier to have info and discard it, than realize you needed it.
Brammy mrrdad My original post was originally intended as meaning "does trying to get every little detail correct" drive you crazy? I spent so much time looking at photos and gathering info on so much I don't even really need. I did enjoy the research, but I now realize how much time it has taken away from building. For what it's worth, I have never really found any harm in having too much data when doing research. It's a lot easier to have info and discard it, than realize you needed it.
I agree, but for me it was turning into nitpicking and unrealistic expectations. Too much thinking and not enough building.
wjstix but it seems to me a lot people interested in prototype modelling spend a lot of time researching what railroad / period they want to model, and then, after deciding what they want to do, start to look at what if anything is available to model that railroad, place, and time. It may work better to look at what's available first, then determine what you want to do based somewhat on that. For example, if you really want to model steam railroading, you're going to have a much easier time modelling the Pennsylvania, New York Central, Norfolk & Western, or Union Pacific because so many accurate steam engine models have been made for those railroads.
That makes it sound like a job.
Part of the fun of this hobby (at least for me) is getting to go off on tangents about whatever interests you.
Paul
I guess learning about an "easy" railroad to model is one way of going about it, but when you live right next to the XYZ RR, your friends work for the company, and you deal with the XYZ in your business, "easy" isn't the main consideration.
And the farther you drill into the details, the less simple the whole industry becomes. You don't have become a historian to have fun, but some of the historians are really enjoying themselves.
You don't HAVE to do any of this. It's a hobby.
OK, now I need to look up discworld model railroads, because I just have to see what sort of nutty things people have come up with to try and match Pratchett's zaniness that is Discworld.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
SeeYou190 In wargaming we have "button counters" as an analog to the Model Railroading legendary rivet counter. . The easiest way to avoid a rivet counter is to go into fantasy wargaming. You can't be a button counter in a zombie infested steam punk battlefield on Mars. . Too bad that there is so little fantasy model railroading. Other than Thomas and Lego, what is really an option? . -Kevin .
In wargaming we have "button counters" as an analog to the Model Railroading legendary rivet counter.
The easiest way to avoid a rivet counter is to go into fantasy wargaming. You can't be a button counter in a zombie infested steam punk battlefield on Mars.
Too bad that there is so little fantasy model railroading. Other than Thomas and Lego, what is really an option?
This guy is doing it:
https://smallurbanrails.wordpress.com/category/mines-of-xenon/
The word "fun," comes up a lot, too.
Gary
mrrdad This is a photo from Custom Model Railroad. They are currently building a model on Grand Central for a customer. I will only be modeling the sides of the building you see in this photo.
Hey Ed-
I did not know CMR was building Grand Central, as a production model or as a limited production model or as a one-off for a private client.
I have no idea what sort of contractual arrangements they have with their client for this project, and I have no idea how they decide to bring new models into mass- or limited production. But I do have some idea as to their capabilities. And since CMR has gotten this far, it appears that the process of researching the original plans and turning those plans into scale model plans and taking those scale model plans and fabricating and assembling the various pieces and parts into what we see here has taken place. And that is a very big accomplishment. They will have worked out the fit-and-finish issues and will have discovered if there are any difficult (or impossible) assembly constraints. They have a reasonable idea of the time and materials required to produce a single kit and might be able to make a scientific wild-ass guess as to MSRP.
All in all, I'd say your chances of finding such a model available in kit form at some time in the not-too-distant future are fair. Or maybe not.
Good luck.
ROBERT PETRICK mrrdad This is a photo from Custom Model Railroad. They are currently building a model on Grand Central for a customer. I will only be modeling the sides of the building you see in this photo. Hey Ed- I did not know CMR was building Grand Central, as a production model or as a limited production model or as a one-off for a private client. I have no idea what sort of contractual arrangements they have with their client for this project, and I have no idea how they decide to bring new models into mass- or limited production. But I do have some idea as to their capabilities. And since CMR has gotten this far, it appears that the process of researching the original plans and turning those plans into scale model plans and taking those scale model plans and fabricating and assembling the various pieces and parts into what we see here has taken place. And that is a very big accomplishment. They will have worked out the fit-and-finish issues and will have discovered if there are any difficult (or impossible) assembly constraints. They have a reasonable idea of the time and materials required to produce a single kit and might be able to make a scientific wild-ass guess as to MSRP. All in all, I'd say your chances of finding such a model available in kit form at some time in the not-too-distant future are fair. Or maybe not. Good luck. Robert
Hi Robert,
This will not be a production piece from CMR. I'm not a facebook user, but my wife is. According to their facebook page, this has been a long project that comes with a close to $20,000 price tag. They have no desire to make it a kit. It does give me a ton of ideas though.
mrrdad This will not be a production piece from CMR. I'm not a facebook user, but my wife is. According to their facebook page, this has been a long project that comes with a close to $20,000 price tag. They have no desire to make it a kit. It does give me a ton of ideas though.
Ummm . . . yeah . . . well . . . there's always a catch, isn't there?
Anyhow, I hope you don't give up. At least don't give up too soon. You can always give up later.
ROBERT PETRICK mrrdad This will not be a production piece from CMR. I'm not a facebook user, but my wife is. According to their facebook page, this has been a long project that comes with a close to $20,000 price tag. They have no desire to make it a kit. It does give me a ton of ideas though. Hey Ed- Ummm . . . yeah . . . well . . . there's always a catch, isn't there? Anyhow, I hope you don't give up. At least don't give up too soon. You can always give up later. Robert
I won't.
I'm working on a model of it in Solidworks right this moment as a matter of fact. I might go broke buying sheets of brick styrene before this is over!
The building is a dark brick with matching mortar lines. I'm thinking of just using smooth styrene. If you were standing back from the building and seeing it in the perspective we are as a model, you'd never see brick lines anyhow.
Oh well... that's for another topic, I guess.
Less is more + Type A personality = It's gonna be big anyway ;0)