After seeing more of the pictures of locomotives and reading more of the origin story, I am now inclined to believe that they are original G&D engines. I would think that restoring them would be a "bad" idea. Being in fire could have damaged them enough that restoration could have harmed effects on the cast metal. So much would have to be replaced on the fire damaged models that it might be easier to start with a contemporary engine, rebuild it to the G&D look and keep the original as an artifact.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Sorry guys if I seemed or got a bit testy- I didn't mean to. To be honest I looked at the slides for comparison last night to unwind at the end of a 12 hour day. Just been back to the house of a man that is passing away. Went to post the prayer request on Facebook and it has me locked out. Fought it for an hour. Kind of a difficult couple of days.
As for the G&D it was a real inspiration to me as a young modeler. I think I wore the Wescott book out and had it memorized. When I saw the story about the satchel a couple of years ago I was amazed at it. I was going to throw this up on the G&D group on Facebook for further documentation and info to help because I heard they had mentioned it but since I cant get into Facebook.........oh well. I guess we model railroaders are a bull headed lot....... I just hope they don't ship us out in a "Bulline" stock car (G&D fans will get the reference)
Guys,Here's what bothers me about those so called satchel survivors.
Back in the day steam locomotives was either Zamak or brass. Zamak melts around 700 degrees fahrenheit while brass melts around 1700 degrees fahrenheit..
I doubt if any Varney Zamak engine would survive a house fire.
I require more proof that these satchel engines are indeed John's.
BTW..While I was never a big fan of John and his G&D, I was still sadden to hear of his death and the house fire that destroyed the G&D.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I enjoyed the links above, because I came back into MR in the 80's and while John Armstrong was referenced, I don't remember any specific articles and there was no Internet to look up pictures.
In most of collecting, you shouldn't attempt to refinish or recondition most collectables. That's not alway true. There are "restorations" that take an inferior example of a very collectable item, and make it better than new.
The "provenance" is that these locos were "John Allen's" They were never Rivet counter models.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
I think the best option, in my own opinion is to preform a interior restoration of the guts, and leave the exterior intact.
Just my two cents.
"No one realizes how beautiful it is to travel until he comes home and rests his head on his old, familiar pillow." -Lin Yutang
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BRAKIE Guys,Here's what bothers me about those so called satchel survivors. Back in the day steam locomotives was either Zamak or brass. Zamak melts around 700 degrees fahrenheit while brass melts around 1700 degrees fahrenheit.. I doubt if any Varney Zamak engine would survive a house fire. I require more proof that these satchel engines are indeed John's. BTW..While I was never a big fan of John and his G&D, I was still sadden to hear of his death and the house fire that destroyed the G&D.
From what I have been able to find out there were some areas that were damaged worse than others. The pictures taken after the fire are all in black and white (on the site too) so it is very hard to tell the exact damage. Several of the crew tried to salvage the French Gulch section as it had taken comparitively little damage. It collapsed not because of fire damage but because of how it was constructed. It wasn't designed to be moved. Where would these engines been at? Nobody knows? Some are clearly more damaged than others. The only one that we might be able to take a guess at was 49- that one appears to have been parked over an inspection pit. There are quite a few from the roster that are missing from the bag too- those may have been completely destroyed.
By the way I agree with the idea that a restoration is probably a bad idea. It would be interesting though if perhaps they could get them running- however that might be even more complicated than a physical restoration.
drgwcsBy the way I agree with the idea that a restoration is probably a bad idea.
I'm on the fence here..
Seeing we restore old steam locomotives,old diesels,stations,passenger cars,cabooses etc why not a model from a famous model railroad?
If one was restored where would it be place for public viewing or should it be sent to MR or the NMRA headquarters for safe keeping?
I don't know.
On the other hand why bother since it wouldn't be John's work?
Again I don't know.
Even if they were restored to exactly how they were before, they wouldn't be John's work. So better to keep them as artifacts. There are plenty of copies of G&D equipment that are quite good, those are the ones that should be displayed to show what the locomotives looked like in all their Gorre.
BRAKIE drgwcs By the way I agree with the idea that a restoration is probably a bad idea. I'm on the fence here.. Seeing we restore old steam locomotives,old diesels,stations,passenger cars,cabooses etc why not a model from a famous model railroad? If one was restored where would it be place for public viewing or should it be sent to MR or the NMRA headquarters for safe keeping? I don't know. On the other hand why bother since it wouldn't be John's work? Again I don't know.
drgwcs By the way I agree with the idea that a restoration is probably a bad idea.
The article by Charlie Getz in the Jm 2006 gazette said that Alen Fenton that donated the remains of the DG&H 0-4-0T combine, flatcar and cattlecar to the narrow gauge presrvation society had donated some other items to the NMRA. Whether if this is the items in the satchel or other items I don't know- the article didn't detail what they were. I would imagine this would have been added to the things for the long delayed Howell Day/ Magic of Model Railroading exhibit???
drgwcs The "Seargent Ennis #8" From Mr Matsumoto's site
The "Seargent Ennis #8"
From Mr Matsumoto's site
Can somone please post Kenichi Matsumoto's Site address?
https://www.facebook.com/Great-Divide-Lines-423511918192732/?modal=admin_todo_tour
I cold be mistaken but I believe the NMRA museum sent these to Mr Matsumoto to be restored.
Great DivideCan somone please post Kenichi Matsumoto's Site address?
Go back to the OP's first post, there's a link, but it needs to be translated. If you use Chrome, it's easy with 1 click.
Mike.
My You Tube
Yep found it.. I was hoping this man had an actual web page... Thanks Mike
Randy
I still remember the day I learned of John Allen's death. I was at the hobby shop buying the current edition of Model Railroader (April 1972, I think) when I saw the black-fringed cover with the photo of John on it. Even though I was pretty new to model railroading then, I knew who he was and had seen many photos of his layout. What a shock that day was!
But though he is one of the few model railroad builders I really revere (Frank Ellison is another, though he was before my time), pretty much everything original that can be said about the man and his creation has been said.
Restoration of these three locos is interesting from a craftsmanship and salvage perspective and to me, nothing more. Whether they were John's or not is of little interest, because even if they were, much of them won't be once refurb is completed.
John and his creation are very nearly 50 years in the past. IMHO it's time to let them rest there, and cherish the memories he created without getting into a fever about small pieces of his world that may remain.
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton