Operations: simulating passenger loadings

[Dayliner]

OK, so we're getting pretty good at simulating freight operations on our railroads. We have our waybills and our switchlists and all kinds of paperwork that can help us estimate daily tonnage across our lines to the nearest hundredweight.

Now, has anyone thought about doing the same for passenger operations? I'm not just talking about car movements here, but about the number of little plastic people getting on and off our trains. Before you dismiss me as an utterly crazed lunatic, hear me out. Passenger loadings can affect timekeeping, and hence, operations. It's one more thing to throw into the mix. A heavier than normal load will delay a departure. Fewer conditional stops mean your train may have to wait longer at the next major station for time. There needs to be some pattern, but with a certain amount of variation. For example, on many routes, passenger loadings would increase towards the end of the week. A train leaving an urban area in the morning hours might typically expect a light load leaving town, but could pick up passengers along its route. On the other hand, we need to allow for occasional events like the Fire Department Auxiliary making their annual excursion up to the big city.

Many modelers seem to use event cards for certain random events such as equipment defects or required repairs. Could a similar system be adapted for passenger loadings? (Perhaps a series of cards reading "23 on at Albion; 2 on/3 off at Barnhartvale" and so on). What about using a pair of dice? The idea is to generate a random, but plausible, variation in passenger loadings in order to provide some operating challenge to even the most basic branch line accomodation.

Has anybody out there tried to set up a system like this on their railroad?

[douginut]

The 1/1 transit operations and former passenger ops have created tables and by actual counts and observations have this down to a science.
a visit to an operating railway museum with a stopwatch or timer can give you a good idea for the time it REALLY takes to load and unload.
also a friendly letter to the local Transit District may get you the time it takes to load busses.
Passenger rail also depends on WHAT you are filling with people and your platform height. Stepping onto an "L" or subway car from a high platform is much faster than climbing up the steps to a regular passenger coach that has not been optimized for commuters. Also the size of the vestibules makes a big difference.
A new Bombardier GO Transit coach loads much faster than a train of heavyweights running into a Chicago commuter scene in the fifties..

My major interest is in the Trolley, Tram, "L"-Subway and interurban sector.
The real golden age of transit is just beginning!

Doug, in Utah

[Anonymous]

I just ordered some Walthers Commuter cars to go with my BLI E7A. I wait about 60 seconds on my layout and the club layout before going. but i like the Dice idea. When i get my own passenger car i'll experiment and i'll let you know what works pprettu good

[ndbprr]

I like the general concept but I am not sure it is at all prototypical. On long distance trains there was usually enough cushion built into the schedule that minor delays could be rectified when those long stretches of running were possible. On commuter trains once they get late they tend to stay late since there is no chance to run off some miles to make up the time. On the other hand commuter traffic tends to be rush hour only and loaded anyway so the schedule probably takes that into account also. I would tend to go with equipment delays like sticky brakes, broken plumbing, heat or cooling, flat wheels or other mechanical causes as well as mail, baggage and sleeper set outs and add ons as more prototypical.

[Anonymous]

holy cow! you guys are really purist. the closest I get to reality is 2-3 minutes at stops for loading & unloading. than off to the nxt stop to drop off an express car or two. the last thing on my schdule is to drop off a sleeper & pullman to a conecting railroad. I like what you guys are doing. thanks for the ideas

[AntonioFP45]

Hey guys,

Dayliner, you're no looney! If you are, so is everyone else on this forum!

I have an idea for that I've been thnking about for over a year now that I'm going to implement on my new layout:

Imagine looking at your very crowded passenger station platform as a passenger train pulls in. After a few minutes, the train departs and only a ticket agent and a baggage handler are left on the platform! Would be a very neat effect!

I plan on having a passenger platform that can "flip" over. Flip panels can often be found in museum, doll houses, or carnival type displays. For my railroad, one side would be loaded with Preiser figures while the opposite side would be almost empty. So now, I'm the one that sounds like a looney, but I believe it can be done.

The down side to this is that as much as I like the Walthers "Butterfly" platforms, I can't use them since they have the roof support poles in floor's center. To make this work, the supports would have to come from the back edge of the platform so the floor would be free to "flip" 180 degrees.

Dayliner, I think that this idea could "Tie in and complement" your idea with using paperwork for passenger loadings, counts and timekeeping!

I have some basic ideas on how this can be scratchbuilt with flat sheet styrene and pins.

Would appreciate any input you guys have!

Cheers! [:)][:D][tup]

[CBQ_Guy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45


I have an idea for that I've been thnking about for over a year now that I'm going to implement on my new layout:

Imagine looking at your very crowded passenger station platform as a passenger train pulls in. After a few minutes, the train departs and only a ticket agent and a baggage handler are left on the platform! Would be a very neat effect!

I plan on having a passenger platform that can "flip" over. Flip panels can often be found in museum, doll houses, or carnival type displays. For my railroad, one side would be loaded with Preiser figures while the opposite side would be almost empty. So now, I'm the one that sounds like a looney, but I believe it can be done.

I think this is a pretty neat idea...

[cnw4001]

Although it doesn't happen much, if at all with Amtrak, one of the passenger operations I try to do is set out the diner enroute.

To get maximum utilization it was not unusual for a diner to be put out at an intermediate point and the car would then go on another train from there. Since diners were usually in the middle it makes for an interesting switching move. Another interesting move is to split the train for separate destinations down the line. Very interesting moves lining up the power and cars. Then on the way back the two trains are joined into a single train.

My commuter operations are GO Transit and those are simply stop and go at each station where the loading and unloading time is part of the "schedule." Same holds true when I'm running a CNW bi-level commuter train.

And one more wrinkle if you want to make life very interesting. Try getting the passenger trains to the platform when the platform is only on one of the two tracks. You have to cross over before the staiton and then run against the flow until the next crossover after the staiton. Makes life interesting for the freight going in the opposite direction. The alternative is to spot loading doors at a walkway to the second track. Oh yes, how many folks "double" the stops because the passenger train is longer than the platform? I try to have the sleepers up at the front and thus a double is frequent as one can't expect the first class passengers to walk through the whole train to reach a door opposite a platform.

Dale

[Anonymous]

The "double stop" idea sounds pretty appealing as a "random event" passenger operation idea. It requires the train operator to do more than just wait an additional period of time at the station--instead the operator needs to restart and stop the train at a particular spot to accomodate the embarcation or detraining of passengers from different cars. Typically our model station platforms are pretty short, so there is a physical justification for the practice of "double stopping."

On most passenger trains, the "short" passengers were loaded on the first coach. The conductor or head brakeman assisted the engineer in making his stop by passing hand or lantern signals (indicating so many car-lengths from the desired stopping point, etc.), and the closer the signalling employee was to the engine, the better. Also, the head-end (mail, express and baggage cars) had to be worked from the depot platform, so carrying the "short" passengers on the coach or coaches closest to the head-end cars made sense.

With a platform shorter than the train, a "double stop" to embark or detrain passengers from the rear cars was required. However, "double stopping" would only be done when absolutely necessary, and not as a routine matter, since the chances of rough train handling are greatly incresased in the process.

The use of a card or dice system to indicate the random need to detrain passengers from the Pullman at the rear of the train would be an interesting--and prototypical-- addition to passenger train operations.

[Dayliner]

Thanks for your ideas, guys. I had no idea there were others interested in "optimizing" passenger ops in this way.

ndbprr, I like your idea about adding mechanical glitches. Fiverings and cnw4001, the "second spot" (as I hear railroaders up here call it) is a good idea and very familiar to me (having lived in small towns with long trains and short or no platforms to speak of). VIA does it with the Canadian quite regularly. Unfortunately, my passenger service (right now at least) is limited to a single RDC. And AntonioFP45, I am simply in awe--you are taking this to a whole new dimension! Let us know how this one turns out.

One of the reasons I started thinking along these lines was to make a fairly mundane passenger operation more interesting. Keeping track of who got on and off, and where (and whether or not I would have to make all the flag stops on a given trip) added some of the activity and interest that's already built into our freight operations.

Here's what I did since my last post. I made up a set of cards, one for each station stop or flag stop along the route (only four at the moment). Each stop was given seven cards, one for each day of the week. Then, for each stop and each day, I threw the dice to determine the number getting on and off. I flipped a coin to determine whether a flag stop would be made on each day, then rolled the dice. Terminal stations don't need an "off" count, because that is already determined by what happened earlier in the trip. Now, when a crew goes to make a trip, they simply pull a card for each station, and they have their passenger count. If the number "off" at a given station exceeds the number on the train, they return that card to the pack and take the next one for that station.

The only drawback so far is disappointingly low passenger counts. If everything goes right, a trip can have as many as two dozen passengers, but seven to ten is more likely, and they look pretty lonely rattling around in half a Budd car (it's actually very true to the prototype I model). I don't know about your railroads, but on mine the passenger trains are all full all the time!

[cnw4001]

Originally posted by Dayliner

Thanks for your ideas, guys. I had no idea there were others interested in "optimizing" passenger ops in this way.

no platforms to speak of). VIA does it with the Canadian quite regularly.
Unfortunately, my passenger service (right now at least) is limited to a single RDC.


Since you're obviously in Canada you might want to run the occasional Sault Ste Marie - Hearst train. All sorts of interesting possibilities there including all kinds of flag stops. Last time they put off a stove and refrigerator at one after loading it at Hawk Jct. Another interesting possibility is assuming it is fall and your Hearst train takes the "second section" of the Canyon Train north and drops it at Agawa and then the southbound picks up the "second section" and takes it back to Sault Ste Marie.

Dale

• Reply