Sunset brass models

[Anonymous]

I was a little surprised to see how expensive some of the Bowser kits had become.

Bowser has a lot of history to the company. I believe the company has been sold at least once. Many of the steam locomotive kits are not of Bowser heritage. John A. English Company of Yardley, PA built a lot of Pennsy prototype steam loco kits in the early 50's. It appears that Bowser has resurrected these engines in their inventory. Also I find Varney steam locos now selling under the Bowser name. I'm pretty sure the Pennsy 0-4-0 is a English model, and I'm sure the Casey Jones is from Varney. The USRA design engines look very suspiciously like the old English 2-8-2 and 4-6-2 engines and I suspect that these locos have also been resurrected from old English dies. So there are a few engines in the line that don't share common designs in valve gear or even boiler castings and are not truly original Bowser products.

I just read where Bowser purchased the Stewart Products line of diesels. Really nice models with accurate body details. I believe it's great that Bowser can keep alive the heritage and models of these early builders. While the dies and various components needed to manufacture the models have been paid off decades ago the costs in manpower to keep the models in production must be substantial.

[ondrek]

I cant say that i will pass on the Sunset to buy a Bowser, I have built an engine from a kit before, two actually, both were MDC's one was a 4-4-2 atlantic that i feel came out very well. there was a good amount of valve gear to assemble there too. i have no problems with it, I dont think i will keep going that route though, it took an awful long time for me to build it due to limited time and the kit was $40 to start. if i am going to spend $200 the engine should be built in my mind.

I would much rather be running the train than having to keep tweeking with it. i found that many of my current engines, which range from mantua's to two Rivarossi's, if something goes wrong, or it starts to run poorly, i tend to just stop using it instead of trying to get it to run well again. infact i have a 040 rivarossi that runs a bit loud and steppy in forwards but smooth in reverse, but instead of figuring it out, i have gone to using a newer one that i have of the exact same model.

So hearing that the brass models if running well to start with are more reliable, thats music to my ears.

Doing some looking on ebay, i did find the B6 out there. its very good looking and after looking into the seller's website and his history, i feel comfortable, but the price is higher than if i but the one from Caboose hobbies. then of course i find on ebay the 5s that i want. that one is right now less than the one at caboose hobbies, but there are still days left on it. So now i need to wait and watch.

Another factor is that the pre-painted ones are for PRR, thats fine and all, but i dont want any real road names on my engines, I have my own, so getting an unpainted one would do two things, same me some $$ upfront and allow me to put my own road name on it. That brings up other issues, can you paint directly on the brass or does it need to be prepared like i had to do with the MDC model where i had to wash it in vinagar, heat it in the oven, prime it, and then paint it? how easy is it to remove the boiler to paint it? all those nitpick things....

Kevin

[MidlandPacific]

Incidentally, if you can get your hands on one, the latest edition of the Brown Book (John Glaab was the editor) is invaluable for pricing brass. The posted prices in the book are obsolete, but you can extrapolate from the printed prices at Caboose to determine whether you're getting a good deal.

[mikebonellisr]

I have both the Sunset brass[from about 10 years ago],and I built the bowser 0-6-0 kit.The bowser was re-powered w/a helix humper motor[I forget the new name they operate under]The sunset has more delicate,finer detail and is a very smooth runner,The only problem I've noticed was the light paint job that scratched all the way to the brass,even with carefull handling-NO big deal because I striped it and re-painted it as NYC.The Bowser kit has nice "heft" and runs almost as good and as nice as the Sunset.The details wheather they are Bowser or Cal-Scale,are a bit thicker.Side by side the difference can be seen, but when they are seperated on the layout,I have to check the number to tell which one I am running.

[Anonymous]

Kevin,
Yep, you definitely need to prepare the surface for painting on brass engines. Vinegar will do the trick very nicely. I use to paint my brass locos using the oven on a very low setting, but with the new paints out the heating process is not really necessary. I do use a primer on a first coat, followed by the engine black.

The boiler of most locos comes off in one piece, so the painting will be done on the boiler, steam chest, and underframe. I really enjoy painting and with your experience I think you'll find it maybe easier than your die-cast models. The drivers are almost always pre-blackened so you would only have to touch up the tires on the drivers if you wanted a completely black driver. Valve gear is polished, and again if you felt the need to darken that image you would need to thoroughly clean the gear, plus use a primer. Some of the primers allow you to paint over them in less than 24 hours so the process goes quickly.

Good luck. I think you will be very pleasantly surprised with your purchase. Ebay will certainly help you get a feel for prices. I often end up waiting 2-3 months to get an engine I want. If you don't see exactly what you want today, just wait a week, something else will pop up.

And along the lines of the post above regarding installing new motors. Sometimes just a new can motor such as those available from Northwest Shortline can turn a lemon into lemonade.

[Anonymous]

I did my usual Friday afternoon look on eBay. There is a beautiful Key Imports PRR B-8 0-6-0 switcher, factory painted at a current price of $195. Key Imports as well as Sunset were the first importers to begin using Samhongsa for a builder. You couldn't tell a Sunset engine from a Key engine without the box.

This particular B-8 is factory painted in the Brunswick Green scheme. This price or even close to this price is cheap for the engine. When this model was produced by Samhongsa and imported by Key the level of quality and finish was almost up to the Japanese imports that cost three times as much. The paint job on this model is really superb and if it runs as good as it looks it would be a winner. I'd place the value on this engine at least in the $300 plus ballpark, with the paint job worth at least another $100.

The Sunset Prestige series of imports were some of the most recent models that Sunset has sold, although they did not use Samhongsa for the builder. The Prestige series locomotives were built in higher quantities than the typical Sunset model and subsequently allowed Sunset to sell them for less money. Sunset chose some of the most popular prototype engines to model in this series to assure the popularity to sell the quantity of engines that they built. They have a good reputation for running quality, although some of the really fine details have been omitted in order to keep costs down, but not noticeable to most people.

[tatans]

Again, I reiterate, some of the best responses to the never ending debate about brass, I learned a lot, great posts everyone.

[ondrek]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tatans

Again, I reiterate, some of the best responses to the never ending debate about brass, I learned a lot, great posts everyone.

No kidding, i never expected this kind of response. Its absolutly amazing and i am learning a TON.

Kevin

[ondrek]

QUOTE: Originally posted by murrieta

I did my usual Friday afternoon look on eBay. There is a beautiful Key Imports PRR B-8 0-6-0 switcher, factory painted at a current price of $195.

I cant find that one. help

Kevin

[Anonymous]

Kevin,

eBay has a topic that is for HO brass imports. You won't find most of the brass engines in the general HO listing. Go onto ebay, then to HO models, on the left side you will see brass imports listed among all the typical HO builders. Click on that and you will find the engine. I think there are about 350 brass currently on the site. Or you can do a search on eBay and put in Key Imports B8. The auction lasts another day or two I believe. This B8 is truly one of the nicest Pennsy switchers ever made, and the first time I have seen one on eBay. Lots of pictures on eBay too, so you will get a good idea of what you are getting. If you are unable to find the engine let me know and I will get the eBay number for you. I also did a little checking on what some of the Prestige Series Sunset switchers have sold for recently and it seems like the range in the unpainted version is $175-200, so you're not far off with the pricing at Caboose Hobbies.

[Anonymous]

I had forgotten I put this engine on my watch list on eBay so it popped up immediately.

The Ebay number is 5943255798. This Pennsy switcher is what a nicely painted loco should look like. I know you said you wanted to have an unpainted model to work with, but it would be a crime to strip this particular engine down for repainting as good as it looks. Maybe you could keep the Pennsy lettering on for a while. This loco also came from Key in an unpainted version.

[Anonymous]

Good Morning:

In referance to the "Brown Book", since it's out of date by almost ten years and brass has done a lot in that time, I use it just to see what was built, how many, and what years. If you want to know what brass was and is selling for check Caboose Hobbies History of Sales, it used to be availabe on a CD.

The guys at Caboose work with brass all the time and they don't make any money unless something sells so they want to have a reasonable price but also a good profit. They have always been good to work with.

Caboose sold, among other engines, a ATSF Tenshodo Crown PFM 2-10-4 for me for $2995.00 and that was cheap for the time. I've bought several locos from them and off eBay. Some of the eBay purchases had to be worked on, but I knew that going into the purchase.

Caboose also has an employee, (Ron Mayers) that wrote a bunch of articles about fine tuning brass models. A lot of the ideas worked for die cast locos also. If you give Ron a call with a specific problem, he'll be glad to help ypu with it.

Have a good day
Bob

[Anonymous]

As to painting "unpainted" brass models....

Nearly all brass models (except those factory painted) were/are imported with a clear lacquer coating. Some had a brass-colored paint applied. Reason: to prevent tarnishing.

You have to decide whether to keep the lacquer on as a base coat, or to strip it. If there are scratches, sags, drips or runs in the lacquer, it's best to strip it off, treat the brass with vinegar (to etch the surface for better paint adhesion), prime and paint. On the other hand, if the lacquer coat is thin, smooth and intact (the usual condition) you can just paint over it with excellent results.

[ondrek]

QUOTE: Originally posted by fiverings

As to painting "unpainted" brass models....

Nearly all brass models (except those factory painted) were/are imported with a clear lacquer coating. Some had a brass-colored paint applied. Reason: to prevent tarnishing.

You have to decide whether to keep the lacquer on as a base coat, or to strip it. If there are scratches, sags, drips or runs in the lacquer, it's best to strip it off, treat the brass with vinegar (to etch the surface for better paint adhesion), prime and paint. On the other hand, if the lacquer coat is thin, smooth and intact (the usual condition) you can just paint over it with excellent results.

Thanks, thats good information, i will keep it in mind.

Kevin

[Anonymous]

I have a Sunset brass SP GS-4 from aprox 10+ yrs ago. It has a smooth running motor and looks generally good but the detail isn't up to the current p2k heritage locos. Beyond that.. it is VERY picky about trackwork and has never run 'great' on any of my layouts, even with 30++" radius curves. would i buy another? no. would i sell mine? nah it looks great in its display case. ha just my 2 cents to throw in the ring.

[ondrek]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jjwest870

I have a Sunset brass SP GS-4 from aprox 10+ yrs ago. It has a smooth running motor and looks generally good but the detail isn't up to the current p2k heritage locos. Beyond that.. it is VERY picky about trackwork and has never run 'great' on any of my layouts, even with 30++" radius curves. would i buy another? no. would i sell mine? nah it looks great in its display case. ha just my 2 cents to throw in the ring.

excuse my igrorance, what does a GS-4 look like?

any pics would help.

Kevin

[Anonymous]

Southern Pacific Daylight 4-8-4 streamlined northern steam locomotive. The engine was used to pull SP's premier passenger trains, later used in freight service as diesels took over. In passenger service they were painted in the red, orange, and black scheme with silver striping, then to basic black for freight.

[ondrek]

QUOTE: Originally posted by murrieta

Southern Pacific Daylight 4-8-4 streamlined northern steam locomotive. The engine was used to pull SP's premier passenger trains, later used in freight service as diesels took over. In passenger service they were painted in the red, orange, and black scheme with silver striping, then to basic black for freight.

oh, too big for anything i will ever own

huh. doesnt run smooth. i hope i dont have that luck. but chances are...

[Anonymous]

They are very smooth runners, just that out of the box the big engine tends to hunt when going down the track and had troubles with switches. I had the same problerm with a Westside and Max Gray Daylight. I ended up adding some more weight to the boiler and increased the spring tension on the four wheel leading truck and that pretty much solved the problem. The bigger engines, especially some of the articulateds suffered from not being heavy enough to track well. It's easy enough to add more weight, but it would have been nice if they would have came out of the box able to handle the sometimes uneven trackwork of a model layout. Smaller engines do much better on rough track work, especially the switch engines with no leading or trailing wheels.

Sunset and Key have now been in business over 30 years. Samhongsa, their builder, has grown to become the premier quality builder of all Korean imports. Current Samhongsa quality is equal or better to any of the best Japanese builders, museum quality in every respect. While there have probably been at least 50 firms in Korea go out of business in these past 30 years that use to build brass locos for different importers, Samhongsa, Key, and Sunset have continued to thrive with a solid reputation for consistent quality.