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Software
Posted by Jcapaldi2008 on Sunday, March 19, 2017 12:26 PM

Is there a good model train layout software out there to buy or free that is very easy to use

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Posted by cuyama on Monday, March 20, 2017 11:40 AM

Jcapaldi2008
Is there a good model train layout software out there to buy or free that is very easy to use

Unfortunately, I don't think any of them could be classified as "very easy to use." Personally, I use 3rd PlanIt, but it has a steep learning curve. I’ve also used CADRail, which is similarly powerful, but the user interface is more like a traditional CAD program than a Windows program. I’ve tried a few other programs and I think AnyRail seems a little easier than those two. All of those are paid versions. You may download free demoes of many programs to try.

Of course, if you are designing one layout for yourself, it may not be worth the time to learn any CAD program. Very good results can be achieved with to-scale drawings using accurate templates of the turnouts you plan to use.

All of the above my personal opinion only. Good luck with your layout.

 

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Posted by Canalligators on Monday, March 20, 2017 11:53 AM

I discovered a rule about computers many years ago.  If you're never going to update the document, do it on paper.  If you think you'll update it two or more times, put it on a computer.  For one time, your call.

And, in my humble opinion, most of the design software I've ever used had fair to poor usability.  You have to play with them for a long time to get the hang of how it works.  Business-to-business software is especially bad.  Part of the problem is that it's designed by geeks for use by geeks.  If you're not very geeky, things just won't make sense to you.  Another part is that it's acceptable to that crowd for the learning curve to be long.

Track layout software probably has some advantages.  But I'll never have to upgrade the software for my paper 1:12 design.  Oh, and the one thing that I put on a computer, the electrical design and schematic, is on a proprietary system that hasn't been in use for twenty years, so it all gets updated by taped-on paper and hand drawn edits.

Genesee Terminal, freelanced HO in Upstate NY

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Posted by RR_Mel on Monday, March 20, 2017 1:00 PM

Hi  Welcome

 

I would say it depends on your computer skills.  If you get along good using your computer go for a low cost CAD program or a Freebee like Gimp.  If you don’t want to really get into CAD type drawing you could try the Atlas Track Planning Software.
 
 
I’ve been into CAD since 1985 so I do everything on my computer.
 
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
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Posted by DSchmitt on Monday, March 20, 2017 2:47 PM

I have used XTrakcad for years. It is free. In the last few weeks have been playing around with SCARM which is also free.

For quickly laying out a track plan and easily revising it I prefer XTrakcad.  

SCARM has one feature I really like.  It lets you import a track plan as a background image to use as a guide in your design, but I find it more difficult to properly place and connect tracks (especially flex track) in SCARM.

Both let you set elevations and run "trains" to test the layout. They also both have extensive track libraries.  XTrakcad also has libraries of structures. In broth programs you can draw your own structures and some SCARM structures done by others are available on the internet.  

I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.

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Posted by IRONROOSTER on Monday, March 20, 2017 3:00 PM

Welcome

The two I have tried - xtracad and Atlas - aren't real easy to use.  I went back to using graph paper and compass.  You can either use turnout templates or learn how to accurately draw them - take measurements off an existing turnout that you are going to use.

Personally, I consider a track plan a rough guide.  When actually building the layout, I place track pieces to see how they look and rearrange until I have something I like.

Paul

If you're having fun, you're doing it the right way.
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Posted by bearman on Monday, March 20, 2017 3:06 PM

TrySCARM.  It's free and the learning curve is not as steep as it is for Xtrakcad.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

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Posted by hon30critter on Monday, March 20, 2017 3:53 PM

I like 3rd PlanIt but I haven't built my layout yet so it might be completely out to lunch. Somehow I doubt that though if Byron (cumaya) is using it.

I have made numerous revisions to my plan, some small, some major. Changing the layout using the program was easy. I initially made several huge design errors and going back to correct those was also very straight forward, albeit somewhat time consuming.

The program has options like creating your own structures in 3D, building terrain and you can even run trains but I haven't explored those to any degree yet and I may never. However, what I have been able to veryify are all the crucial things like radii, grade, clearances both overhead and side to side and benchwork designs. For example, I have been able to design my benchwork so that none of my Tortoise switch motors will end up in the middle of a cross member. 

Keep in mind that none of the CAD programs will design a layout for you. That you have to do yourself. I strongly recommend getting yourself a copy of John Armstrong's 'Track Planning for Realistic Operation'. Before I read it I thought my plan was wonderful. After I read the book I realized how naive and disfunctional my first plan was. The layout would not have done half of what I envisaged.

I can't speak to the other programs. I do consider 3rd PlanIt to have been money well spent.

Dave

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Posted by Sir Madog on Monday, March 20, 2017 4:02 PM

I can only recommend SCARM. It is fairly easy to learn and there are a lot of excellent video tutorials helping get the grab on it. The guy /Mixy in this parish) who developed it, is also helpful and will answer your question within a couple of days.

SCARM is for free, has a large track library, a nice 3D feature and even a free train simulator, so you can tour your layout in 2D as well as 3D mode.

RTS from Atlas is identical to SCARM, but limited to Atlas track.

I started to use SCARM about two years ago and quickly got into it, although I am not the computerr savvy type.

Here is a 3D view of one of my later creations for Marklin HO scale tinplate from the 1960´s.

Buildings, cars and locos are not included - I drew them using scarm as a 3D graphics tool.

Ulrich     

People of my age don´t tan, they simply rust!


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Posted by jjdamnit on Monday, March 20, 2017 4:04 PM

Hello all,

Mac or Billy-Windows?

I am on a Mac and have found Rail Modeler Pro; available through the App store.

Hope this helps.

"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"

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Posted by peahrens on Monday, March 20, 2017 4:42 PM

I used XTrackCAD a few year ago.  You might try its tutorial to get a feel.  There were a few times I got stuck in figuring out a detail or forgot same about something particular.  I would use it again. 

Paul

Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Monday, March 20, 2017 11:11 PM

Why are CAD programs hard to learn/use? Well, they have a lot of complex capabilities. No one learned to be a qualified draftsman in 20 miniutes back in the days of pencil on mylar, or ink on linen. 

As someone originally trained in both pencil and ink back in the day, I ventured into to CAD at one point. But soon realized I simply was never going to need that skill to any degree that could justify the learning curve.

Today I still use my drafting skills in my profession as a residential designer and historic restoration consultant. And I assure you I draw most of my clients drawings faster by hand than most CAD operators could do them on their computers.

CAD is great for big commercial projects, dozens of "layers" for the same floor plan, 3D modeling, etc.

But for one time, one off, custom projects, on the scale of most residential work, I assure you I save my clients money and myself time by still doing it the old way.

I had a small custom layout planning business years ago, and have done a few friends layouts more recently, all drawn with pencil on mylar, it's really not that hard, and much better to "get right to the layout plan" rather than spend time learning some software you may never use again.

Obviously some of the posters in this thread have strong computer backgrounds, Mel admits using CAD for decades.......unless that is you, just get a piece of paper and a ruler.......

Sheldon

    

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Posted by hon30critter on Monday, March 20, 2017 11:42 PM

I think everyone has their favourite methods, and none of them are wrong.

Personally I don't like sketching plans on paper as much as I do using CAD. I find CAD to be entertaining in and of itself, and I often use 3rd PlanIt for purposes other than layout design.

However, when I want to make a list of things I'm more inclined to pick up a pencil than start up Word. Eventually a few of the lists may get typed up if I want to refer to them again but usually they stay as is. That's how I do my 'To Do' lists, detailed vacation planning, longer responses to a thread, and lots more. I have even been known to rewrite lists by hand that needed editing rather than type them out. I go through lots of pencils, and erasers. Go figure!

Dave

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Posted by tomikawaTT on Monday, March 20, 2017 11:51 PM

Second Sheldon's motion, especially if you're trying to design an unconventional trackplan.  It simply isn't worth the time to learn a skill that probably won''t ever deliver the result you want.

I will readily admit that I've never used any track planning software.  I have tried to use other CAD programs for other purposes, and frequently found that the programmer who wrote the software included code that limited it to very conventional and frequently outdated thinking.  Plumbing limited to specific angle junctions, lack of ability to draw helical gears, shaft bearings of very specific dimensions (and no others)...  Original thinking and inexpensive CAD programs are a rotten fit.  (Don't get me started on trying to do lines drawings (ship hulls) with software that doesn't allow shaping a bulbous bow or proper Azipod mountings.

Just for my own curiosity, does any free or inexpensive track planning program allow three way switches with all three routes curving in the same direction?  All it took for me to draw them - full size - was a trammel and a piece of flex track.  They had to be hand laid, of course, but I don't buy specialwork in bubble packs.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - unconventionally)

 

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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 12:26 AM

tomikawaTT
does any free or inexpensive track planning program allow three way switches with all three routes curving in the same direction?

Actually Chuck you could draw up a good representation. Each of the three routes could be drawn up separately and then overlayed. 3rd PlanIt allows you to group things together so you would be able to move the 'assembled' (grouped) turnout drawing wherever you wanted it, or you could build it in place. One limitation would be that you might not be able to run a simulated train over it, but for me at least, the train simulation thing got old really fast. 3rd PlanIt also doesn't qualify as 'cheap'. Good value maybe, but not cheap.

I'm not being critical of your methods. I admire those who can build their own turnouts, especially a three way one. I'm afraid I'm one of the 'bubble pack' crowd.

Regards,

Dave

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 6:33 AM

hon30critter

I think everyone has their favourite methods, and none of them are wrong.

Personally I don't like sketching plans on paper as much as I do using CAD. I find CAD to be entertaining in and of itself, and I often use 3rd PlanIt for purposes other than layout design.

However, when I want to make a list of things I'm more inclined to pick up a pencil than start up Word. Eventually a few of the lists may get typed up if I want to refer to them again but usually they stay as is. That's how I do my 'To Do' lists, detailed vacation planning, longer responses to a thread, and lots more. I have even been known to rewrite lists by hand that needed editing rather than type them out. I go through lots of pencils, and erasers. Go figure!

Dave

 

Dave, if you enjoy playing with CAD, or 3rd Planit in particular, go for it. But for many people who have never done that sort of thing on a computer, stuff like that is highly frustrating and has a very steep learnig curve.

I started using computers in the early 80's, for inventory management, invoices, customer records, construction estimating, machine controls and more. But personally I find all manor of graphics programs on computers to be slow and frustrating - but admitedly I was trained to do it on paper, so I know how much faster I can do it the old way.

And I still make paper "to do" lists as well.....

Sheldon

    

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Posted by Sir Madog on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 8:15 AM

tomikawaTT
Just for my own curiosity, does any free or inexpensive track planning program allow three way switches with all three routes curving in the same direction?

Chuck, there is a freebie program that has been designed to draw custom switches, which can certainly do that.

But basically, you are right! Track planning programs rely on switches which are commercially available. A few of them have a built-in designer function, but they cost quite a lot.

I like playing around with my track planning tool - it has become a hobby within a hobby for me. But that´s me. If you like paper, pencil and a ruler - great for you!

Ulrich     

People of my age don´t tan, they simply rust!


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Posted by Mike Kieran on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 8:57 AM

One thing that I like about XtrakCAD is that you can download locomotives and freight cars to test operating scemes and equipment clearances.

__________________________________________________________________

Mike Kieran

Port Able Railway

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Posted by RR_Mel on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 11:02 AM

Sheldon is right on the money about CAD programs being complicated.  I learned CAD back in the good old DOS days (remember DOS?) The cut over two Windows really dinged drawing times with the dozens and dozens of pull down menus.  I reverted to my old DOS program when I was pressed for time until Windows 10 arrived, XP was the last OS that would run my DOS CAD program so I’m stuck in the land of super slow Windows CAD programs now.
 
A 5 minute drawing in DOS takes close to an hour in a Windows Version.
 
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
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Posted by DSchmitt on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 11:45 AM

Sir Madog

 

 
tomikawaTT
Just for my own curiosity, does any free or inexpensive track planning program allow three way switches with all three routes curving in the same direction?

 

Chuck, there is a freebie program that has been designed to draw custom switches, which can certainly do that.

But basically, you are right! Track planning programs rely on switches which are commercially available. A few of them have a built-in designer function, but they cost quite a lot.

I like playing around with my track planning tool - it has become a hobby within a hobby for me. But that´s me. If you like paper, pencil and a ruler - great for you!

 

XTRAKCad has a turnout designer. Do not know how easy it is or how well it works.  I have had no need or desire to try it.

I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.

I don't have a leg to stand on.

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Posted by joe323 on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 2:16 PM

I use anyrail its free to try up to 50 pieces so I made 1:1 templates of Atlas turnouts and sectional track and printed them out.  Using painters tape I made a diagram of my proposed benchwork on the floor and played around till I was happy.

Joe Staten Island West 

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 2:53 PM

RR_Mel

Sheldon is right on the money about CAD programs being complicated.  I learned CAD back in the good old DOS days (remember DOS?) The cut over two Windows really dinged drawing times with the dozens and dozens of pull down menus.  I reverted to my old DOS program when I was pressed for time until Windows 10 arrived, XP was the last OS that would run my DOS CAD program so I’m stuck in the land of super slow Windows CAD programs now.
 
A 5 minute drawing in DOS takes close to an hour in a Windows Version.
 
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 

Sheldon has been doing little engineering drawings in various disiplines, architectural, structural, electrical, plumbing, machine parts, HVAC, model train layouts and more since 1975. His drafting table has not needed a software update yet........... 

    

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Posted by Sir Madog on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 3:22 PM

Suddenly, I can recall the name of the program to design switches - it´s Templot!

 Sheldon certainly is a person of a strong opinion on some issues!

Over the years I found out, that he does not like DCC, or sound, or track planning programs or smoking locos. Truly a 1960´s or 1970´s style model railroader! While I have to admit that I found his attitude a little irritating at first, I start to develop a much better understanding for him now. My next layout will be void of any gadgets, just simple and basic technology. Down to the earth layout, albeit planned using a track planning program.

No offense meant, Sheldon!

Ulrich     

People of my age don´t tan, they simply rust!


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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 6:44 PM

Sir Madog

Suddenly, I can recall the name of the program to design switches - it´s Templot!

 Sheldon certainly is a person of a strong opinion on some issues!

Over the years I found out, that he does not like DCC, or sound, or track planning programs or smoking locos. Truly a 1960´s or 1970´s style model railroader! While I have to admit that I found his attitude a little irritating at first, I start to develop a much better understanding for him now. My next layout will be void of any gadgets, just simple and basic technology. Down to the earth layout, albeit planned using a track planning program.

No offense, meant Sheldon!

 

None taken, It has been both interesting and rewarding getting to know you over the years. 

As for CAD, in some applications it is wonderful. While I have never been tech shy, I have never needed/wanted tech for tech sake. If it is truely better, great, but newer is not automaticly better.

I work on old houses for living, a profession where repairing or restoring original technology is often better than trying to intergrate new technology.

Just like the comments from Chuck, I have experianced a number of drafting problems over the years that CAD could simply not do.......so then they need me.

Yet I programed some of the earliest industrial PLC's, and pioneered the use of computer estimating at several large construction firms in the 1980's.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by Mike Kieran on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 7:56 PM
It's like putting up a shelf. Some days the drill works while some days a hammer would be of better use. They are merely tools that are used for the job at hand.

__________________________________________________________________

Mike Kieran

Port Able Railway

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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, March 21, 2017 10:47 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
Dave, if you enjoy playing with CAD, or 3rd Planit in particular, go for it. But for many people who have never done that sort of thing on a computer, stuff like that is highly frustrating and has a very steep learnig curve.

Hi Sheldon:

I do enjoy working with the program, whether it is fine tuning a turnout position or making wholesale changes to the size of the layout (which I recently did with ease).

I'm not a computer guru in any way, more like a dinosaur to tell the truth. I get very frustrated when things like Windows upgrades are imposed on me. However, I don't recall having difficulties learning the basics of using 3rd PlanIt. Please note the emphasis on 'basics'! There are aspects of the program like forming terrain that I freely admit I couldn't master despite several attempts, and I simply ignored some other functions like building my own 3D structures. For my scratch built structures I just drew up a footprint, and I use my imagination to 'see' the slopes and mountains. While I see great value in getting the track plan figured out in reasonable detail, I don't think that calculating the exact slope of a mountain side is worth the trouble. The scenery will fit where it fits and the program tells me the difference in height between any two points anyhow.

If I had done all the many revisions to my layout plan with pencil and eraser I would have been buried in eraser crumbs long ago!Smile, Wink & GrinLaugh In fact, I think the ability to make quick changes is one of the biggest reasons for my use of CAD. I have no doubt that you could do an initial concept sketch with a pencil much faster than I could do it with CAD, but when it comes to playing with design options, CAD allows multiple changes to be made in a few seconds (with no eraser crumbs either!!LaughLaugh)

In many ways I think that CAD is one of those things that is a self fulfilling prophesy. You will like it or you won't like it. In both cases you are probably right.

Take care!

Dave

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Posted by RR_Mel on Wednesday, March 22, 2017 9:00 AM

I have a problem working on my layout for long periods of time due to my puny knees and back.  When I take a break I enjoy diddling around drawing in DesignCAD.  It’s a low cost AutoCAD and almost as powerful as AutoCAD.
 
There is a steep learning curve to get over but it can be a lot of fun.  When I started out Windows was just a glitter in Billy’s eye, the early DOS versions were a piece of cake.  When the Windows versions popped up it was a major hump to get over for me, I was 55 at the time and I had a really hard time adapting.
Edit:
It was hard to not to go back the DOS version when I had problems with the Windows software, learning CAD with out having the DOS version handy would have been a lot easier.  I used the DOS version as a crutch and that dinged me.
 
Once you make it over the hump it becomes very easy and enjoyable especially for my model railroading stuff.  When I can’t work on my layout because of health reasons the CAD fills the gap very nice.
 
My last diddling around was drawing up my proposed camera car.
 
 
It was fun drawing the Bachmann Depressed Flatcar, I don’t know how much time I have in the drawing because I worked on it in 15 to 30 minute increments over a couple of weeks.
 
If you have a bit of patience to learn to use a CAD software program can be very satisfying as well as very helpful in model railroading.
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
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Posted by Sir Madog on Wednesday, March 22, 2017 10:43 AM

No intention to hijack this thread, but I am relieved that you take my comment lightly, Sheldon!

Just recently, I have found out that I am not enjoying model railroading anymore as much as I did only a couple of years ago. I find it getting too complicated, with all the new materials, technologies and systems, which have made the hobby also a lot more expensive, but that´s not what I am after right now.

I think I have to make model railroading simpler, emphasizing more on "play" (gosh, what a bad word, we don´t play, we operate!) than on catching the ultimate realism. Back to where I started from - 53 years ago, I guess.

Ulrich     

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Posted by Jcapaldi2008 on Wednesday, March 22, 2017 11:39 AM

Thank u all for input 

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Wednesday, March 22, 2017 12:04 PM

Sir Madog

No intention to hijack this thread, but I am relieved that you take my comment lightly, Sheldon!

Just recently, I have found out that I am not enjoying model railroading anymore as much as I did only a couple of years ago. I find it to get to complicated, with all the new materials, technologies and systems, which have made the hobby also a lot more expensive, but that´s not what I am after right now.

I think I have to make model railroading simpler, emphasizing more on "play" (gosh, what a bad word, we don´t play, we operate!) than on catching the ultimate realism. Back to where I started from - 53 years ago, I guess.

 

I understand, that is a matter of balance for me, that's why I exclude things that would make it like work for me, like learning/using CAD when I have no need for it otherwise.

In fact, using, maintaining, even advancing old methods, like my relay based cab control and signaling is a big part of the fun for me.

I have modern detailed locos and equipment, but I also still run many freight cars from the 50's and 60's.

I like accuracy, but don't obsess over it or need it on every last item. I'm about the big picture, the overall effect.

Sound and DCC, they are fine. But signaling, CTC, multiple trains moving, longer more scale length trains, are all more important to me, and DCC/sound add layers of cost and complexity with no real benifits for me.

Four to six trains moving at once, on what I consider only a medium sized layout, with sound, even turned down, would be a din of noise that would make my head hurt. 

I like being the dispatcher of my own "minature wonderland", reasonably detailed, representitive of a specific place and time, but still a product of my imagination.

Sure I like to run trains, but I also like to just turn them on and be a railfan.......

Sorry to be so long winded,

Sheldon

    

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