Can anyone suggest a rattle can paint for painting heavyweight cars in Pullman Green. I tried Scalecoat's Pullman Green and while I suspect it closely matches the true Pullman Green in outdoor light, it appears as a flat black in my layout lighting. I can't even see a hint of green in it. Ditto for their Brunswick Green. I tried their Southern Green and that is too green as is a number of shades of Tamiya paints I've tried. My heavyweight passenger fleet is a mixed bag of Walthers, Branchline, Athearn, and Bachmann cars. Bachmann is noticeably lighter but the other three are close matches and I would like to find something in that range. I don't need an exact match. Just something reasonably close. I have a number of old coaches from a previous layout in a variety of liveries and I would like to use these to build up a fleet of commuter coaches after painting them and upgrading them with KD 148s, metal wheel sets, diaphragms.
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
jrbernierMaybe you need to upgrade your layout lighting?
It would be much cheaper if I could find the right can of paint.
Except that color isn't an absolute, but a function of reflected and absorbed wavelengths. Colors look different under different light, with most manufacturers considering sunlight to be the "true" color. I once tried two colors of spray paint that looked the same under the flourescent lights in the store, the color name was the same (although 2 different lines from the same manufacturer), yet when I got home and applied it to my cellar door, it was a noticeably different shade from the other can (which I had applied only days earlier), forcing me to repaint the rest of the door with the new color.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
Krylon or Rustoleum have an flat olive drab in a rattle can. Usually in with the other colors sold to off road drivers, who are into painting their off roaders in cammo. Haven't tried it myself, but it looks promising for Pullman Green.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
CTValleyRR Except that color isn't an absolute, but a function of reflected and absorbed wavelengths. Colors look different under different light, with most manufacturers considering sunlight to be the "true" color. I once tried two colors of spray paint that looked the same under the flourescent lights in the store, the color name was the same (although 2 different lines from the same manufacturer), yet when I got home and applied it to my cellar door, it was a noticeably different shade from the other can (which I had applied only days earlier), forcing me to repaint the rest of the door with the new color.
I don't need an exact match to my heavyweight passenger cars from Walthers, Branchline, and Athearn. I just need something close. It is much more important to me to match to those than to the prototype Pullman Green and much more important than simulating sunlight in my layout room. A close match to my current fleet is all I want which gets back to my original question. Does anybody know of a rattle can paint that is a close match to the brands of passenger cars I mentioned?
Can;t say I've ever seen Scalecoat's Pullman Green appearing as just black, and besides my own layout, I've run locos with that paint at club shows with various types of lighting depending on the venue. Brunswick Green, on the other hand, is just black with a drop or two of green - even when I visited Horseshoe Curve, in brioght sunlight, I thought the loco on display was just painted black, then I managed to hit some anlges where the sun glinted off of it just right and I saw the slight green tint.
Scalecoat PG is a close match for what Bowser/Stewart paints their locos. It's definitely darker than the color used by LL of P2K locos, but not black. Polyscale was close to the color used by Life Like, so whatever the replacement color in Model masters is for that, would be a lighter PG, although it looks more like a sun faded picture of the real locos. Much like Pennsy fans constantly debate over Brunswick Green, aka DGLE, Reading fans are always back and forth over what makes a proper Pullman Green for the first gen diesels.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
dstarr Krylon or Rustoleum have an flat olive drab in a rattle can. Usually in with the other colors sold to off road drivers, who are into painting their off roaders in cammo. Haven't tried it myself, but it looks promising for Pullman Green.
Thanks. I've tried a shade of Krylon called Italian Olive. The cap looked about the right color but when I sprayed it on, it was just too light. That was the closest I could find at Walmart's. I'm going to Lowe's this week so maybe they'll have something several shades darker.
I have used Scalecoat Pullman Green on my passenger cars and it looked very close to the proper color. You may want to improve your lighting. I just know it looked right for me.
Try Blick's, an art supply house. They have many dozens of spray paints available that you will never find at WalMart, Home Depot, etc. You will have to work off color charts on your computer screen so it may take more than one try.
skagitrailbird Try Blick's, an art supply house. They have many dozens of spray paints available that you will never find at WalMart, Home Depot, etc. You will have to work off color charts on your computer screen so it may take more than one try.
I haven't heard of Blick's. Hobby Lobby and Michael's are the ones I know of in my area. If I strike out at Lowe's I'll give one of them a try.
I have only ordered via the web. Blick's is at http://www.dickblick.com/
The site shows stores in Cleveland and Columbus. Maybe these are close enough for you to visit.
I might add that the spray paints I have ordered from Blick's are some of the nicest paints I have used. No connection here...just a satisfied customer.
skagitrailbird I have only ordered via the web. Blick's is at http://www.dickblick.com/ The site shows stores in Cleveland and Columbus. Maybe these are close enough for you to visit. I might add that the spray paints I have ordered from Blick's are some of the nicest paints I have used. No connection here...just a satisfied customer.
Thanks again. My LHS is in Columbus and I usually go there once or twice a week so it wouldn't be that far out of the way. I'd be hesitant to try to match a paint color online given the experience I've had so far trying to match a color.
Pullman green is quite dark ....
Trouble is, when observed in the subdued lighting of our train room, it looks even darker. That's why the majority of model companies use lighter hues than the proto-type so the color looks more correct on our layouts.
I've found that problem numerous times using TruColor paint. Their paints are formulated to match the proto-type when new. This doesn't always translate very well to our model world. I am constantly tweaking colors so they look good indoors.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
For what it's worth, there was a discussion concerning Pullman Green recently on the Passenger Car Yahoo Forum.
Generally, it is difficult to "match" colors used by different manufacturers. I have Walthers B&O cars made in different runs that noticably differ, when the cars are coupled together. Since Floquil and Poly Scale went off the Market, the problem is magnified. My guess is that the Floquil Pullman Green is a close match for Branchline Pullmans, assuming you can still find it.
Coincidently, I have been looking for an almost black, glossy, Pullman Green, similar to the appearance of the Southern Railway Office Cars and HW coaches stored at Washington, DC terminal in the 1970s. From what has been related in this thread, perhaps Scalecoat II Pullman Green is what I am looking for.
wojosa31 For what it's worth, there was a discussion concerning Pullman Green recently on the Passenger Car Yahoo Forum. Generally, it is difficult to "match" colors used by different manufacturers. I have Walthers B&O cars made in different runs that noticably differ, when the cars are coupled together. Since Floquil and Poly Scale went off the Market, the problem is magnified. My guess is that the Floquil Pullman Green is a close match for Branchline Pullmans, assuming you can still find it. Coincidently, I have been looking for an almost black, glossy, Pullman Green, similar to the appearance of the Southern Railway Office Cars and HW coaches stored at Washington, DC terminal in the 1970s. From what has been related in this thread, perhaps Scalecoat II Pullman Green is what I am looking for.
Based on what others have said in this thread, I am wondering if the Scalecoat Pullman Green I tried was really Brunswick Green that had been mislabeled. I tried a can of each and both appeared flat black. I couldn't tell them apart and I would never have guessed either was a shade of green had the can not been labeled that way.
I did some internet surfing and found a website that lists approximate equivalents of Testors/Floquil paints from other manufacturers. According to this, Tamiya's Cockpit Green #71 is said to be a good subsitute for Testors Coach Green. That might be the next thing I try. I know an LHS that stocks Tamiya but I don't remember seeing that shade last time I looked.
Mark R. Pullman green is quite dark .... Trouble is, when observed in the subdued lighting of our train room, it looks even darker. That's why the majority of model companies use lighter hues than the proto-type so the color looks more correct on our layouts. I've found that problem numerous times using TruColor paint. Their paints are formulated to match the proto-type when new. This doesn't always translate very well to our model world. I am constantly tweaking colors so they look good indoors. Mark.
What you are saying doesn't surprise me at all given my experience. I actually would prefer something a little lighter rather than fidelity to the prototype. I know that some lighting is supposed to mimic daylight but how true can that actually be. If we really could do that, we would probably need to wear sunglasses in our train rooms. Indoor lighting is just not going to replicate sunlight.
The shade that looks most correct to me is the one used by both Walthers and Branchline. I can't tell them apart without looking really close and I have one train that has a mix of both types of cars. If I could find a rattle can paint close to either one of those, I wouldn't care how close it is to the prototype.
The photo you posted shows a very dark shade of green but you can still tell it is green. The Scalecoat Pullman Green I used I don't think would be distinguishable from the black roof. It almost isn't in your photo and with indoor lighting, I'll bet it would look like a solid black car.
jecorbett [snip] .... I did some internet surfing and found a website that lists approximate equivalents of Testors/Floquil paints from other manufacturers. According to this, Tamiya's Cockpit Green #71 is said to be a good subsitute for Testors Coach Green. That might be the next thing I try. I know an LHS that stocks Tamiya but I don't remember seeing that shade last time I looked.
[snip] .... I did some internet surfing and found a website that lists approximate equivalents of Testors/Floquil paints from other manufacturers. According to this, Tamiya's Cockpit Green #71 is said to be a good subsitute for Testors Coach Green. That might be the next thing I try. I know an LHS that stocks Tamiya but I don't remember seeing that shade last time I looked.
Coach green is a LOT lighter than Pullman green ....
jecorbett I tried a can of each and both appeared flat black.
I wonder how your Scalecoat is drying to a flat black? I thought all Scalecoat paints dry to a high gloss.
From their website:
All colors dry to a high gloss finish, except Loco Black which dries to a matte finish.
I have used Scalecoat I in Tuscan Red and Black and I'm very happy with the results. I have only made a sample chip, brushed, with their Pullman Green but I like the color very much.
Ed
I re-painted some Athearn cars that where Santa Fe cars with Floquil Pullman Green, so I could re-decal in Northen Pacific livery. Floquils Pullman Green was a lighter green than what Athearn used to paint the cars with originally. However, both colors looked green under my lighting. I would say that what Athearn used on the cars looked similar to Mark R.'s photo of a paasenger car.
I'm finding this discussion timely as I'm about to paint a bunch passenger cars.
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
Another option to consider is Modelflex Pullmann Green. Your original note says you are looking for a spray can, but I found that Modelflex brushes on very nicely. My first DIY paint job on an undec PA1 diesel was Modelflex brushed on with a soft camel hair brush. No brush marks, no covering of the rivet detail.
George V.
gmpullman jecorbett I tried a can of each and both appeared flat black. I wonder how your Scalecoat is drying to a flat black? I thought all Scalecoat paints dry to a high gloss. From their website: All colors dry to a high gloss finish, except Loco Black which dries to a matte finish. I have used Scalecoat I in Tuscan Red and Black and I'm very happy with the results. I have only made a sample chip, brushed, with their Pullman Green but I like the color very much. Ed
I am working from memory here since I repainted the car so it might have been a gloss black. Whether it was gloss or flat, it looked black, not green. It closely matched the black roof of the heavyweight car.
Mark R. jecorbett [snip] .... I did some internet surfing and found a website that lists approximate equivalents of Testors/Floquil paints from other manufacturers. According to this, Tamiya's Cockpit Green #71 is said to be a good subsitute for Testors Coach Green. That might be the next thing I try. I know an LHS that stocks Tamiya but I don't remember seeing that shade last time I looked. Coach green is a LOT lighter than Pullman green .... Mark.
Lighter is what I want. I'll find out later if it is too light. That would still be better than black.
In doing some research, I discovered that Santa Fe's heavyweights were not painted Pullman Green but what they called Coach Green. I have heavyweight Santa Fe cars which I relettered from both Walthers and Athearn and if that is the shade I get with Tamiya's Cockpit Green, I will be very happy with it.
Hmm, I have to go dig out my test shell, I painted parts of the inside in Polly Scale and Scalecoat Pullman Green to see which one matched what, but of course most of my stuff is all boxed up still.
What color was the car you painted before applying the PG? I painted on an Atls undec RS3, which is grey plastic. If you painted over black plastic with no lighter primer over it, that would darken the results.
rrinker Hmm, I have to go dig out my test shell, I painted parts of the inside in Polly Scale and Scalecoat Pullman Green to see which one matched what, but of course most of my stuff is all boxed up still. What color was the car you painted before applying the PG? I painted on an Atls undec RS3, which is grey plastic. If you painted over black plastic with no lighter primer over it, that would darken the results. --Randy
I used the Pullman Green on an undecorated Roundhouse Palace car which was made in black plastic. The car body was almost indistinguishable from the unpainted roof when the paint dried.
After painting many cars and trucks in my life.....a black primer will dull/darken a color....A light Grey primer will brighten/lighten a color and of course, a white primer will make the same color much lighter.
Take Care!
Frank
I just used some Tamiya TS-9 British Green to spray a couple of Athearn HW passenger cars. Probably not dark enough for a true Pullman Green; but close enough for what I am doing.
jecorbett Can anyone suggest a rattle can paint for painting heavyweight cars in Pullman Green. I tried Scalecoat's Pullman Green and while I suspect it closely matches the true Pullman Green in outdoor light, it appears as a flat black in my layout lighting. I can't even see a hint of green in it. Ditto for their Brunswick Green. I tried their Southern Green and that is too green as is a number of shades of Tamiya paints I've tried. My heavyweight passenger fleet is a mixed bag of Walthers, Branchline, Athearn, and Bachmann cars. Bachmann is noticeably lighter but the other three are close matches and I would like to find something in that range. I don't need an exact match. Just something reasonably close. I have a number of old coaches from a previous layout in a variety of liveries and I would like to use these to build up a fleet of commuter coaches after painting them and upgrading them with KD 148s, metal wheel sets, diaphragms.
jecorbert,
I suggest doing a simple experiment with the Scale Coat pullman green paint you already have to see if the perceived final color is because of the bare black plastic you are laying the paint on (as some posters have already alluded to).
Spray one plastic card (or whatever handy) with black paint and another with light grey (or white) paint. Then paint both with your SC pg paint, let dry, and compare the two under your existing lighting in the layout room. What do you see in the comparison?
I have used SC pullman green a number of times on passenger car projects and to my eye under my halogen track lighting, it is a very close match to the pullman green paint used on the Branchline Heavyweight pullman car kits. The caveat is that the cars I started off with were bare light green plastic, NOT black.
I vote for the experiment to save you hunting down (read spending time and money) on other colors that are not formulated to be pullman green.
The best payoff is that you will have another experience in your toolbox to know why things don't work out as expected when it seems they should.
Good luck.
Joel
Modeling the C&O New River Subdivision circa 1949 for the fun of it!
Look at military color selections the next time you are in a hobby shop..... I have used dark green in past years, but I do not recall which brand.
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
You should be able to find a suitable or exact match for the color You are looking for......don't by no mean's get hung up on a Railroad color name....a paint MFG. may have the exact color that You seek, but with a different color name. I have been using Tamiya paints for yrs. and many of their colors match, Railroad specific colors, but with different color name's. Large list of colors available. Just because it say's Military color's.....so what! If it matches Your color.
Here is a link to Tamiya:
http://www.tamiyausa.com/articles/feature.php?article-id=72#.VQhrZNLF9Pk