Let's do something productive and realistic regarding this boycott.

[AntonioFP45]

Well,

Other than Bill Matthewson, no one is advocating contacting the "real potential culprits" the model railroad products manufacturers who may overinflate their prices on UP and CSX model products when the fee from licensing, (which will be likely quite small) hits them.

Going on and on about this UP thing is becoming very monotonous and seems to indicate that some of us WANT to spend energy "swishing this around". I thought that the responses to this topic would have been very different with more of us coming up with creative ways to get our message across to the manufacturers instead of alloting so much attention to UP, which has been very unproductive.

Since there is no agreement or consensus on doing this on a large scale, I can only hope that you guys take some time, go to the the main manufacturer's websites (Athearn, LIfeLike, Kato, Atlas, Stewart, etc) and using "Diplomacy with Courteousy" write each manufacturer and firmly list your concerns. If you do write them with a "mad tirade" it would likely be deleted.

Give it a shot, Amigos! ; we have nothing to lose and a lot to gain!

Sidebar:
BTW: None of us can truly boycott UP! There is a chance that: your car, some grocery items, furniture, building materials, plumbing items, raw plastic, cement, raw lumber, or things that you own or come in contact with was transported by the UP!

Cheers!

[trainfan1221]

Antonio,
You have a good point as always, my friend. But you must have known that this topic would open a so-called can of worms. I think its a shame that it should have to come to anything like this, after all, we model real railroads out of respect for them and its too
bad that something like UP's licensing is getting in the way of that. It's like a big slice
of the real world being injected into our model ones, where I'm sure we all envision a
more peaceful and agreeable environment.

[Anonymous]

I did do something productive. I started by changing my from my UP affiliated Screen name (Grayhound Challenger) to this one.

James

[Jetrock]

I could see UP getting upset if someone started a real-world 1:1 scale railroad and named it "Union Pacific." I could see UP getting upset if someone started a porno magazine and called it "Union Pacific." But this is just dumb.

I realize, not being a rail shipper, that I can't boycott UP. I can write them a sensible but reasonable letter, I can write my Congresscritter and encourage them to support less lunatic copyright laws, and I can write Athearn and Lionel and encourage them to keep up their fight against UP but please don't charge extra for UP models, even though I don't buy them (tho I do buy SP, WP and SN, all UP victims.)

Boycotting is silly. Not doing something is not the same as doing something--and not doing something that you weren't going to do anyhow is doubly silly.

[Anonymous]

GreetingZ All,

The UP licensing program is a farce, and will eventually be shown to be just that if UP is stupid enough to actually allow this to show up in any court that they don't own via political payoffs. Trademark law only applies to like products and services. Every trademark case that's ever been decided references the "ten foot rule", established by the courts in the mid 20th Century (geez, I never imagined I would be saying that about something that happened during my lifetime!), I believe for Tide detergent, whereby, if an average person can distinguish between two products' trademarked attributes at a distance of ten feet, then there is no infringement. There's no way that anyone who isn't legally blind will ever confuse a prototype piece of railroad equipment with a model of it, visually or functionally. Model railroad products are not used for the same purpose as prototypes, i.e., hauling cargo (but, those wily G, 1:12 and 1:8 modelers might be tempted to disprove that notion!).

As for the argument that liquor stores and brothels could tarni***he reputation of another, unrelated business, the courts do not agree. It would be perfectly legal for a brothel to be named "Union Pacific" (although "Pacific Union" would seem more accurate), and some might make the argument that UP's executive offices, particularly those of their lawyers, constitute just such a brothel, based on their recent behavior!

As for copyright, neither "Union" nor "Pacific" can be copyrighted, and even if they had tried to copyright "Union Pacific" when the company was formed in the 1860s, because copyrights only lasted about 50 years or so back then, it would have reverted to the public domain by the early 1900s. Note that they are attempting to protect their more recent logos, such as the winged herald, because of this.

I know all of this because a company I worked for successfully trademarked a non-language (i.e., made-up) word for a software product I developed, that was also a trademarked word for a product used to keep pizzas warm during delivery. No one seems to have complained that our software didn't keep their pizza warm!

If anything, we should all be reminding the model manufacturers of the above facts, and that if they're uninformed about trademark law, then they need to find better lawyers (hint, the really good ones will take on a case on spec, since they will collect their fees from the well-heeled idiots in the large corporations). The only reason some manufacturers have caved in and signed agreements is because they don't feel they can afford the legal fight individually. Apparently, the Model Railroad Industry Association doesn't have any lawyers, or at least any worth their salaries, if there are some, or their member companies would have collectively told UP to go find something else to do with their lawyers (like maybe starting a brothel).

The reason corporations spend billions to have their names plastered on things like race cars is because of exposure. All we need to do is convince the media to give model railroads equivalent levels of exposure and we can turn the tables on UP, CSX, and any other transportation company that may try to bolster its bottom line via this kind of bogus licensing program.

All Z BeZt,
Jim

[Anonymous]

The way I look at is....I gave up a long time ago.
[bow][bow]BNSF[bow][bow]

[slotracer]

Guys, the UP is an extremely arrogant company filled with people with huge egos and driven by totally unrealistic wall street economic forces. They could care less about the opinion of a bunch of train buffs. Boycotts rarely have any effect anyway, I suggest a better way is to relieve yourselves of anguish, frustration and stress over this and do something you CAN control.....don't model UP. Why anyone would have any interest in or desire to model UP is beyond me. They are the posterchild for gobbling up and erasing classic railroads across the landscape and replaceing it all with plain vanilla railroading, I'd think most people into trains would despise them to the point they would not model them. Working for UP (I had the opportunity to leave thank god) was the main factor in my pretty much loosing all interest in railroads myself. Now they make my day miserable as a shipper...the poem earlier sums it up nicely....and yes we are diverting traffic away from them.

Do yourselves a favor, don't have a cow over this, model another line and if everyone else decides to do the same, manufacturers will make less UP stuff based on reduced demand and UP's royalties will suffer. In the mean time you will have peice of mind.

[AntonioFP45]

Hello SlotRacer,

Good points, however, you have to consider that a number of modelers here model UP in the "past tense", when it was "The Hero"! [C):-)]

If you look in the 20th Century, UP had some major innovation, accomplisment, or feat to boast about. Very admired by the public. Back in the 70s and early 80s, it was being saluted for running steam excursions on a regular basis. Many modelers and railfans here over the age of 35 probably remember this and will still retain the affection for this road----not of the corporate leadership of today---but for what this road stood for in the past!

Case in point:
I'm not a UP modeler, but because I plan on having at least two SD40-2s in UP colors. The reason: The SD40-2 and the UP were synonomous back in the 80s as a symbols of modern railroading. If you dig back, you will find many pictures of this combo. While many roads had SD40-2s, it was the UP units that were getting the most photos! In the 70s it was the DDA40x. In the 60s; the U50 series. In the 50s; the turbines. In the 40s; the BigBoy and Challenger on Sherman Hill. And those passenger trains! Ultra Rich History! Always has been a popular railroad to model!

So again, boycotting makes no sense at all; and I'm very sure that a number of modelers on this forum will continue to model the UP, and they should with no shame! Why condemm the thousands of dedicated employees for the actions of "hard rock" executives and lawyers?

For the last time..................We need to focus our attention........on the manufacturers.

God Bless, cheers, and peace, amigos!

[slotracer]

Oh, and one other thought on this. I think the main factor in a difference of opinion on UP or any other similar corperation charging royalties for use of it's logo images etc vs sports teams or sprt sanctioning bodies can be summed up as follows.......

Sports teams and sporting sanctioning bodies obtain a HUGE portion of their revenues, loyalty, attraction, identity and marketing based on theri name, their colors, images, logos slogans etc. Thier economies are built around this. A railroad gets so little revenue boost on anything related to their brand name, logo etc that it is not even worth measuring, it is less than secondary. I think many folks feel.....and probably rightly so, that the railroad gets more value from "free "advertising and public exposure/recognition....from t shirts, ball caps, model trains etc than they could get in royalties. I think thus the frustration is that they put more value on dollars tehy could put their hands on than the greater value of exposure they might otherwise get. In their greed and arrogance, they fail to realize that in their going to these kinds of actions, the create an undercurrent of distain and dislike that is actually some negative PR. But hey, what the heck, the legal staff can actually claim they added something to the bottom line in revenues in stead of hating departments like marketing and sales for being in the value stream of the company. Thats what its all about mates

[Anonymous]

Thank god at least someone agrees!
BNSFfan.

[Anonymous]

slotracer you need to STFU enough with U.P. they have a right to licens there name...dont tell people not to model U.P. no one cares what you think about U.P. you little complainer. damn can we let this thread die? and you and everyone else needs to STFU!! about U.P. already..if you dont like U.P. dont buy there sh** ok?!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by up9899

slotracer you need to STFU enough with U.P. they have a right to licens there name...dont tell people not to model U.P. no one cares what you think about U.P. you little complainer. damn can we let this thread die? and you and everyone else needs to STFU!! about U.P. already..if you dont like U.P. dont buy there sh** ok?!

[#wstupid] I can't think of a better reason than this post to let this topic die. Can't we all just get along[?][?][?][?][?]

[Anonymous]

hi guy's
instead of making silly comments.
I would sugest geting something sensable done or you will be paying $70 each for you rolling stock items for HO.
The manufacturers won't miss a chance to make a profit and if they can get away with it they will gouge on prices.
AntonioFP45 has the right idea let them know if the price goes up you will stop buying.
I do also think a "POLITE NON CONFRONTATIONAL" letter should go To UP
as well as the company needs to know that public opinion is not on their side
regards John

[Anonymous]

My wife read some of the posts on this thread and some of the other UP related threads, and commented "what a petty sounding bunch of men complaining over something that they obviously don't have a clue what they are talking about. They are squabbling and name calling all over possibly a few pennies per model. How dumb and how boring. Is that all there is to discuss on the Forum? Is this why you stay up late - reading this stuff? Why?"

Then she said she had a headache and said "goodnight y'all".

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by up9899

slotracer you need to STFU enough with U.P. they have a right to licens there name...dont tell people not to model U.P. no one cares what you think about U.P. you little complainer. damn can we let this thread die? and you and everyone else needs to STFU!! about U.P. already..if you dont like U.P. dont buy there sh** ok?!

Very eloquently put.

Suspended 30 days from Atlas forums?....wonder why?

[philnrunt]

up9899-on the contrary, i do care what slotracer, up9899 and all of the members of this forum have to say. That is why I joined, to get different ideas, opinions and thoughts than my own.
I have to say, I sure havn't been disappointed! I would never have come up with some of the ideas and thoughts I've read on this forum. As for opinions, everybody has one, and all are valid as opinions. Whether or not you agree, at least let them say it.
That's one of the reasons we have soldiers dying in Iraq.
Wonder if they care about all of this.

[AntonioFP45]

Bill Matthewson,

Good to know that your wife is a smart, intelligent woman!

UP9899,
No need for "flaming". Slotracer is still a fellow modeler and if you read some of these posts, a lot of us are not going to boycott models with UP logos on it as it accomplishes absolutely "ZERO"!

I'm dissappointed that Grayhound Challenger changed his name, but glad he's back under the GN's banner.

Gentlemen (and wise ladies!) I thought that this thread would really make a difference and open some eyes. I will no longer post to this topic. Bill, John and a few of you do see the reality of the situation; but some of our other fellow modelers want to continue to shake a "Louisville Slugger" at UP for "symbolic reasons". In two or three years this whole deal will likely be shoved under the carpet, forgotten, just like when Disney made its licensing "hoopla" a decade plus back.

Those that claim that they don't wi***o write the manufacturer "until they see the actual licensing charges" are puting themselves in the same boat as people that don't vote in their local elections, but continue to complain bitterly!

Dougal, since you don't wi***o contact the manufacturers, I hope do hope that you perform your research and "do something", otherwise all this energy we're all spending on this topic is a waste of precious time that could be used in helping other modelers on this forum, or working on modeling projects themselves.

[slotracer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by up9899

slotracer you need to STFU enough with U.P. they have a right to licens there name...dont tell people not to model U.P. no one cares what you think about U.P. you little complainer. damn can we let this thread die? and you and everyone else needs to STFU!! about U.P. already..if you dont like U.P. dont buy there sh** ok?!

So debonaire, such class, man UPFoamer, you really put me in my place, this post makes you look such a suave individual, we ARE impressed !

Suspended 30 days from Atlas forums?....

No.....Really ?????? .......ya think???.......I'm at a loss for a reason why this might happen ?????

Come to think of it, another significant reason I became inactive in modeling and railfanning is the high percentage of foamers, loosers and have no lifes that seem to be into trains (not everyone). Maybe you fit that mold ?

[Anonymous]

slotracer,maybe you should become inactive again? do us a favor, and for getting suspended big deal...i'll will be back over saying this same stuff. and im gonna flame everyone on this forum if they continue to say things about thr road i model...so be ready if your gonna bad mouth U.P.

[Anonymous]

Can't you guys just email each other off-line and spare us all this non-productive name calling and flaming? It's beyond boring. When you're done beating on each other, come back on the forum and inform us who won, for right now you both sound like losers. . .

[Anonymous]

lol

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: (which will be likely quite small)

Thats why I won't email the manufacters, I have no idea how much money UPO and CSX are chargeing, it could be a penny, it could be $10.00. Until someone here has good evidence about how much they are charging I'm staying out of this

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45
running steam excursions on a regular basis.

Thats becuase they make $$$$$$$$$ on it, if they weren't making $$$ of the steam program they'd scrap the 844 and 3985 in a flash

[Anonymous]

dougal according to there web site its penny's for a $10 item

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by up9899

dougal according to there web site its penny's for a $10 item

Yeah but I want to here from someone that has dealt with them, also, why bother to charge if its only a penny? Might be a enny but that just doesn't sound right.

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by up9899

slotracer,maybe you should become inactive again? do us a favor, and for getting suspended big deal...i'll will be back over saying this same stuff. and im gonna flame everyone on this forum if they continue to say things about thr road i model...so be ready if your gonna bad mouth U.P.

Just a piece of friendly advice......

Bergie doesn't lock, delete or suspend as much as they do over on Atlas........but you might not want to rise too much farther above the ambient noise level. "Discussions" here generally are allowed more leeway, because he wants us to police ourselves a bit more. But just like Atlas, this forum belongs to MR, and ultimately they have the responsibility and right to manage it as they see fit. Don't make Bergie have to intervene.

[Anonymous]

I've only in seeen bergie step in once on this board once. We try to keep it calm and ono topic. This topic went from a good idea and trying to better our situation to a full flegded arguement. We all have a commoon interst so we should all be able to get along. I would hate to see bergie have to close down a topic that should have great ideas and unsefull ideas to help better our plight. Please sdono't get personal and stay on topic.
Andrew Miller

[Anonymous]

dougal i understand also, i to would like to here from a U.P. spokesman saying its only pennies...and for you to licens a trademark or what not you have to charge something, and according to the web site the only charge pennys.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by up9899

dougal i understand also, i to would like to here from a U.P. spokesman saying its only pennies...and for you to licens a trademark or what not you have to charge something, and according to the web site the only charge pennys.

Yeah I hope someone who has dealt with UP replies.

and BTW I like UP itself, I just hate the managment