What is wrong, if anything with the model railroad hobby

[Anonymous]

If you are living in a country with runaway inflation then you will notice that foreign imports are changing prices almost daily. The sorry state of the US$ which has been plummeting all century is, as the US administration has pointed out, a golden opportunity for Americans to clean up in the export business. They seem to be doing this very well, more millionaires have been created in the last 3 years than in the previous 30.

I don't know what a Walmart is but I probably don't want one.

[Anonymous]

For me the main gripe with the model railroading industry is the high prices now being charged. I for one am not going to pay $34 for one of Athearn's ready to run genesis boxcars. And to people that have notice less and less spare parts being available, one possibility is that manufacturers may do that on purpose. i mean they don't have a certain spare part you may have to buy a whole kit from them again. I will be saving money from now on by going with cheaper manufacturers such as Model Die Casting, Accurail, Model Power, and Bowser for my freight car kits. I will buy any future Athearn locomotives(not ready to run ones) at model railroad flea markets.

[ShaunCN]

Prices,Prices,Prices. There just to high for some of us. I'm still running locos that were my dad's from 1974, because i can only afford a few new ones(the price of the loco in 1974 was $5,wouldn't that be cool if prices were like that now). Other than that thing in the hobby are great besides the people in clubs who do not let you run your loco because its not good enough........

[Anonymous]

In 1972 A Ford F150 only cost $2475.00 brand new. (I still have the receipt my father paid for the truck that became my first vehicle when I turned 16.) I just bought the most recent version of that same truck with 4 doors, and paid $28,000.00 for it. Talk about WOW. So in relative terms, we are paying less for locos now than we did (Sorry, just a stupid statistical comparison that means nothing in real life, prices are still to high.)

Price is a big problem. There are not enough services for the money. I see that for a lot of modelers it is hard to find someone who will stand by them and answer questions without copping an attitude. I am lucky, I have a great local shop, and money for the hobby is not a huge issue in my life (read: great wife, and no kids.) So, I understand that my reality is a little skewed sometimes.

I hope this entire economy thing comes back around. Our jobless rate has not improved enough, and inflation is beyond calculation compared to the rest of the world... which is not helping the unemployment thing.

But, we still have an awesome country... I mean, we are all sitting in front of computers here complaining about the pricing of non-essential stuff!

[Anonymous]

Price!

Yes, I expect prices to go up with detail and quality. But when Design Preservation was sold the most detailed and best value line went up considerably. Athearn Genesis engines should be more. But the reasonably detailed quality rolling stock I relied on nearly doubled in about 5 years -- same ones, no more quality or detail.

I applaud the more detailed and better items available. I will buy some of them. However, resonably priced less detailed items are getting harder to find.

Stuebsrr

[bcammack]

About the state of the hobby with regards to complaints about Price and Limited Runs:

Margins have been sqeezed to practically nothing in the mid-range and has driven manufacturers to pursue profits in the high end, so you end up with exquisitely detailed, feature rich short runs that have margins capable of sustaining the business.

This is unfortunate as it has the effect of "eating the seed corn" by ignoring and driving out the average "Joe Lunchbucket" modeller who simply will not pay $700 for a locomotive. (not a dimunition. I put myself in the "Joe Lunchbucker" category)

There are two things that have caused this.

First, internet/mail-order price competition is bleeding the local brick & mortar hobby shops white. One of the reasons that Horizon is tearing up the old distribution agreements for Athearn is to throw a life-jacket to the LHS sector by preserving margins for them.

Second, with apologies to Walt Kelly, as Pogo said, "We have met the enemy and he is us." We demand more features, more incredible detail, and reserve new items as soon as they are announced. Then we complain about the system. I would hate to have us for customers... :)

I have lousy eyesight and can't see most of the stuff that everybody else is oohing and aahhing over unless I put on my OptiVisor and hold the darned thing up to a strong light, so none of it really projects value to me. It's very difficult for me to justify (to myself or my spouse) more than about $50 for a locomotive. I just want one that runs good and looks fairly right when running.

[CBQ_Guy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bcammack



It's very difficult for me to justify (to myself or my spouse) more than about $50 for a locomotive. I just want one that runs good and looks fairly right when running.

Same here, but that's because I'm one of those nasty, low life "good enough" modelers. Now, it has been established that good enough is a subjective term -- it means something different to each of us.

My level is similar to that of Allen McClelland who is often credited, I believe, with coining the term. Allen looks to the prototype, but if the cars and locos look like cars and locos while operating, well that's "good enough". But I consider myself a model railroader more so than a railroad modeler.

As for prices and RTR, the sales of this stuff is off the charts, so apparently that's what the vast majority wants. In a way that's OK because that's how a capitalistic system is "supposed" to work. I'm just not in that majority. I do wonder how kids, which by the way are supposed to be being hotly sought into the hobby as it's future, are supposed to afford this on the few bucks they make shoveling snow, delivering newspapers, mowing lawns, whatever.

MR has the build a layout for 500 dollar project, as if that's a good thing. To a young kid starting out, that's BIG BUCKS so I don't really know what a viable solution is.

[Anonymous]

Definately the cost of modelling is the major drawback to the hobby (Maybe the only drawback) For young modellers like myself, whose only income is from a summer job, it is really hard to keep up with the high prices of the hobby.

[CNJ831]

CBQ guy posts,"As for prices and RTR, the sales of this stuff is off the charts, so that's apparently what the vast majority wants."

While I will not deny that the sales volume of high end and RTR euipment might be doing well, I will most definitely argue that these are _not_ necessarily what the majority of hobbyists actually want. In talking with a couple of LHS owners, I am being told that high end and RTR sales involve, at best, a modest number of individuals buying large numbers of items, whereas kit and lower priced items are going to a far, far larger number of one-item-at-a-time buyers. I suppose that in the future it might be possible for a very few manufacturers to continue to survive selling brass-like $1,000 plastic engines and cars to say 10% of hobbyists' numbers today but what of the remaining 90% of us? Are we to be progressively shut out of the market over the next decade? And in the same sense, the idea of attempting to bring new people, especially younger individuals, into the hobby becomes an absolute joke.

CNJ831

[Anonymous]

In my opinion the problem with this hobby is not price, selection or lack of great stuff, etc. [:D]

It's the general attitude that most people not involved in the hobby have regarding model railroading. Most people still see it as a juvenile undertaking. [D)]

First of all, non-MR people (who are certainly in the majority) quite often do not understand the distinction between the "toy" train sets they might have seen as a child under the Christmas tree and the hobby of model railroading, which, in my opinion, is a wonderful union between nostalgia & history, art, carpentry, electronics, etc, etc.

Don't get me wrong, there's a place for both genres (i.e. toy and realistic); I guess my point is that most people fail to see model trains as a respectable (for lack of a better word) hobby such as baseball cards, stamp collecting, hunting & fishing, etc.

Too many times I've told people I was into model railroads and/or model trains and have received raised eyebrows, a snicker, or a laugh in return. I think the first thing a lot of folks tend to think is "grown man still plays with toys" or "get a life" or "geek that has way too much time on his hands." [:-^] It's the same reaction I get with radio control cars, which I'm also interested in.

In this regard the hobby is misunderstood. I think the problem would be alleviated if the hobby was a little more mainstream. Rarely do I meet anyone in the general public who is also interested in the hobby. Only at my LHS or train show do I see these people. I think there is a bit of negative stigma attached to the hobby (or at least the idea of adults being involved in it). I have to admit that, being a single 30-yr old male, I usually avoid the topic of hobbies or model trains when I met people, particularly females. I'm always afraid they're going to see it as juvenile.

Don't get me wrong. This doesn't stop me from being really interested in the hobby. I still visit my LHS's on a regular basis and I'm still always planning that proverbial dream layout.

Just my observation of "what is wrong with the hobby." [8D]

Still the WORLD'S GREATEST HOBBY!!!!

[MAbruce]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chadnark

It's the general attitude that most people not involved in the hobby have regarding model railroading. Most people still see it as a juvenile undertaking. [D)]

Great point!

There is a "fringe" perception to this hobby. Certainly some regions have better participation than others, but in all I think it has failed to penetrate the mainstream. Now this could easily lead to discussions on how the hobby could better be promoted, etc. But I don’t want to go there.

The point I’m leading to with this is that if there was a better market penetration into the mainstream, then this would enviably have a favorable impact on cost as manufacturing volumes would increase to meet demand. Maybe there would be less limited runs, more for the distributors in volume (so they are not such a factor on retail prices), and more manufacturers willing to jump into the market (competition is always good).

Or maybe this hobby needs to come to the brink of extinction in order to shake out the elements (whatever they are) behind the run-up in cost?

[liquidcross]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chadnark


Too many times I've told people I was into model railroads and/or model trains and have received raised eyebrows, a snicker, or a laugh in return. I think the first thing a lot of folks tend to think is "grown man still plays with toys" or "get a life" or "geek that has way too much time on his hands." [:-^] It's the same reaction I get with radio control cars, which I'm also interested in.

Sounds familiar. I get the same thing, because I also read comics, collect classic video game systems, and vintage Transformers. [:D]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE:
Or maybe this hobby needs to come to the brink of extinction in order to shake out the elements (whatever they are) behind the run-up in cost?

Several times over the past years I've thought the hobby couldn't survive much longer given that so many young people seem to be interested primarily in computers, video games, etc. (I can't criticize too much b/c I love those things too!).

However, it seems to keep plugging along somehow. From what I have observed the hobby is actually really popular with youth in Japan and Germany, etc. I think that the more the hobby advances in terms of technology (e.g. DCC, computer control, animation, etc.), the more likely younger people will be interested.

Maybe then it would be considered a "cool" hobby! [:D]

[Anonymous]

Don't let anyone fool you this is not a great hobby and if you get raised eyebrows, well you have a clear target to spit in their eye. Liquidcross, let me tell you, my son-in-law deals in comics and is in the process of building a $300,000 house. His private collection is estimated to be close to 3/4 of a million.

[Anonymous]

LACK OF SPACE IN MY GARAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![banghead]

[JR42]

My biggest problem with HO is that I can't find a lot of nice accessories(real operating crossing gates, uncouplers, lighted cabooses, other operating things you could get in S and O gauges). I know it's more for the modeling, and I enjoy that, but I also would like more of what I remember as a kid with my American Flyer. Where are these things?? And if they're not around, why not?

[steveblackledge]

cost is my enemy being a peasant in the wilds of the UK, you think it's expensive over there, we get stung for everything thanks to the Briti***ax collector etc etc , an average price for a loco is £70- about $135. i buy all my BNSF stuff off ebay or from Trainland, New York , great to deal with you in the USA, the robbers, sorry shop keapers here charge up to £95- $170 for an athearn SD75 i can get for $60 from you guys,
god bless the USA and the WORLDS GREATEST HOBBY

[The Watcher]

Think cost is a big problem.

While it's good to see a lot of the finely detailed models coming out I don't see very much quality mid priced or low priced products coming out in all areas of the hobby. This is especially true for locomotives no matter what the scale.

[UpNorthBob]

Originally posted by ejbulman

I agree with Slotracer, there are a lot of odd characters in this hobby. Every show I go to, there are always "hygenically challenged" creatures. Most frequently, there are those unfortunates that have nothing else going for them in their lives, so that they have to immerse themselves in the minutiae of the hobby. Sometimes, they can be very contentious. Pathetic losers.....

I don't want to step on any toes here, so I apologize in advance. My observation is that most all of my hobbies seem to be getting out of the price range of most people who have several different hobbies. When I look at my hobbies - model railroading, golf, fly fishing, bicycling, playing drums - it is getting difficult to enjoy any of these unless you focus on just one hobby. Add to that the fact that activities in most of these areas seem to be dominated/run by those odd characters who absolutely live only for that single hobby. As a result, when I play golf, I'm surrounded by people who look down on my driver because it's not a $400 model. Ditto for those out on the river who look down on my $25 K-Mart fly rod. I don't mention to too many people that I like model railroading, because, living in a resort area, I'm not interested in becomming "railroad buddies" with some summer person who has the "best railroad money can buy," and who will expect me to share his unbridled (and well financed) passion.
Anyway, I've been away from the hobby for some 20 years, and some prices don't seem too out of line, while others definitely are. The problem with me, and I suspect many of you, is that my discretionary dollars are being pulled in too many directions. I have $250 burning a hole in my pocket. Do I buy a airbrush kit, new waders, a new lob wedge, or a new cymbal? The multi-hobby person just has a bit of a problem paying the prices that the single hobby folks are willing and able to pay.

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