I am beginning the jump into DCC for the first time. Just purchased an NCE powercab starter set to go with the few DCC locos I already have. I went through my inventory, and have a lot more "DCC Ready" than I thought, including about 10 Athearn P42s. I want to start with the P42s installing decoders, but am at a loss as to which way to go or what exactly I need. I know the locomotives can accept 8 or 9-pin (9 without having to solder). I am not electircal-saavy nor have ever soldered anyhting in my life, so looking for the easiest as possible install. I'm hoping for sound decoders, and have been looking at Loksound, Soundtraxx, and Digitrax in that order.
Any suggestions?
Hi Jumpshot,
You should also add TCS Wow to the mix. Loksound, TCS, and Soundtraxx are the "Big Three" when it comes to sound decoders. Personally, I would consider those first before Digitrax.
Whichever sound decoder you end up going with, TCS has a handy how-to sound install tutorial on their website to give you a headstart:
TCS Wow Athearn RTR P42 sound installation
You do not have to go with their motherboard, as the lightboard already has an 8-pin NMRA plug. All you would need to add then is the speaker. Unfortunately, you'll need to solder the speaker wires on the speaker.
You may also want to decide if you want to stick with the original incandescent bulbs or change them to LEDs. While you don't have to do them now, LEDs will last longer and run cooler than incandescents. You would hate to see a warped P42 shell because the headlight got too warm.
Along those lines, I would encourage you to take the plunge and purchase a good-quality soldering station and learn to solder. It's not difficult and is an invaluable tool and skill to learn. It will also open up certain feature possibilities in your locomotives and in projects around your layout - e.g. soldering feeders to your track.
Youtube should have some good tutorials to view about soldering. Even better is someone in your area who is willing to take the time to teach you. That way you can ask questions.
Lastely, when it comes to speakers, there's a plethora of choices. I would encourage you to look at Scale Sound Systems. The proprietor, JT Burke, is a sound engineer and he designs and 3D prints his own speaker baffles. The difference in quality over other speakers is noticeably better. And JTs prices are are comparable to what's out there.
HTH,
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
The TCS website has great "how to" instructions for many locos.
Digitrax is the lower-end sound decoder on that list. It is also the most affordable.
Simon
Hello All,
to the forums!
Your first few posts will be reviewed by the moderators so there will be a delay in seeing them.
I use the NCE Power Pro wireless DCC system.
Most of my decoders; sound and non-sound, are Digitrax with a few TCS and some DCC compatible European manufacturers.
Thanks to the National Model Railroad Association (NMRA) DCC systems have what is called "Interoperability."
Simply put- -any DCC product manufactured that adheres to the NMRA standards will work with others that adhere to the same standards.
There are currently a few exceptions. Those are being resolved between the manufacturers and the NMRA.
I am currently upgrading my non-sound Digitrax decoders to sound.
The Digitrax decoders have a wiring harness from an NMRA 8-pin plug to a 9-pin plug on the decoder.
On the opposite end of the sound decoders, there is a 10-pin plug with a built-in speaker and a capacitor for only the sound.
I discovered that you can plug a Digitrax SDXH167D Sound Decoder; with a built-in speaker, into the 9-pin side of the harness and "upgrade" to sound.
Click on this link for more info...
Sound Upgrade H10-44 in HO
What this means for you is you can use an NMRA 8-pin to 9-pin Digitrax harness to add sound to your locomotives without requiring soldering skills.
Apparently, the Digitrax Series 6 speakers left something to be desired.
I only have had experience with the Series 7 speakers and they fit my needs without having to upgrade to an aftermarket unit.
Digitrax has recently developed an upgrade for the SDXH167D Sound Decoder so an Energy Storage Unit (ESU) also known as a "Power Xtender" or "Keep-Alive"- -which acts like a small battery, for short power interruptions.
The PX108-1-"Power Xtender" can be plugged into the 10-pin side of the decoder.
Keep the questions coming, and as always...
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
I built a Heathkit short wave radio when I was 14. There were lots and lots of parts and lots of soldering.
Our departed electrical guru, Randy, recommended this soldering station
You do not want acid containing flux.
Before you attempt to do your first soldering of wires to a speaker, you should practice on some spare wire.
ESU decoders can be purchased blank or with a sound package specific for you loco. Maybe that's true of other decoders, IDK, but you want your retailer to install the appropriate sound package for your engine, which they will.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Thank you for all of the help, defiitely a lot to read. I took apart one of my older Quick-Plug Equipped to try and wrap my head around what I'm dealing with. Seems the easiest way is to just get a 9-pin plug and do it that way. From what I can tell, the digitrax 167D would do the trick but I can't tell if that's just sound or if it will handle DCC motor finctions as well? I'm partial to the LokSound just based on internet reviews, but it looks like all they have are boards and no plug-and-play. I don't think my first foray into DCC should be as involved as electrical work, even with the TCS instructions.
Jumpshot,
If you scroll to the botton of this page, ESU makes an 8-pin Loksound 5 decoder (PN: 58420) with an attached harness that will plug right into the 8-pin NMRA socket.
And, as mentioned, you don't have to remove the lightboard, as shown in the TCS how-to tutorial. Leave it in place and plug in your 8-pin decoder. All that's left is to solder the speaker wires to the speaker.
BigDaddyOur departed electrical guru, Randy, recommended this soldering station
Hi Jumpshot724,
I strongly agree with Henry's choice of soldering stations!!! If you are going to get into soldering you may as well start with a really good soldering iron. I have the Xytronic LF-399D soldering station and it is the best soldering iron that I have ever used, and I have owned several! Forget about Weller and the cheap Chinese pencil irons. The Xytronic iron costs less than a single sound decoder. It is money well spent.
https://www.amazon.com/Xytronic-LF-399D-Lead-Free-ESD-Safe-Soldering/dp/B018RE794U/ref=sr_1_5?crid=1GG9R08ULTBOU&keywords=xytronics+soldering+station&qid=1706228084&sprefix=xytronic+soldering+station%2Caps%2C75&sr=8-5&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.006c50ae-5d4c-4777-9bc0-4513d670b6bc
Soldering is not difficult if you follow the proper steps. This is what works for me. I run my iron at 700 degrees:
1. Clean the tip of the iron. That's what the brass sponge is for;
2. Apply a tiny amount of flux to the wire and the pad to which the wire will be soldered. Ngineering sells flux that does not need to be cleaned off after soldering;
3. Get a very small amount of solder on the tip of the iron and then tin your wires and the contact points. I tin the contact pads even if they have solder already on them. Tinning simply means to apply some solder. Having clean non-oxidized surfaces is essential!;
4. Clean the tip again with the sponge;
5. Get another small amount of solder on the tip of the iron;
6. Hold the wire(s) in place and touch the tip of the iron to the joint. The solder should flow from the tip of the iron into the joint very quickly. Hold the wire absolutely still until the solder has solidified. DO NOT hold the iron on the joint for more than 2 or 3 seconds or you may damage the circuit board or contact pads. If it doesn't work the first time, start from step 1 and try it again.
You should buy some solder specifically designed for electronics work. Ngineering sells the proper solder.
https://ngineering.com/soldering.htm Scroll down.
I suggest that you do not buy the soldering iron shown at the top of the page. I bought one and I ended up throwing it out.
As was said, get some spare wire and practise before attacking a decoder!
Don't hesitate to ask more questions.
Cheers!!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Jumpshot724I know the locomotives can accept 8 or 9-pin (9 without having to solder).
Today, DC locomotive's lightboard generally come with an 8-pin or 21-pin receptacle.
Most decoders are 21-pin or 9-pin, a few are 8-pin. With a 9-pin, you use a harness to connect it to the 8-pin receptacle. There are various harnesses of various length to fit the situation in different engines.
Jumpshot724 I don't think my first foray into DCC should be as involved as electrical work, even with the TCS instructions.
I don't think my first foray into DCC should be as involved as electrical work, even with the TCS instructions.
https://www.wikihow.com/Practice-Soldering
By the way, I use a pencil soldering iron for wiring decoders because of the small size of its point. It is also relatively inexpensive.
Rich
Alton Junction
Jumpshot724Seems the easiest way is to just get a 9-pin plug and do it that way. From what I can tell, the digitrax 167D would do the trick but I can't tell if that's just sound or if it will handle DCC motor finctions (SIC) as well?
The decoder you reference is an SDH167D Series 7 Sound Decoder.
Yes, it is a sound, motor, and 6-function (lighting effects) decoder.
The difference between the SDH167D and the SDXH167D is the SDXH167D offers more preloaded sound files than the SDH167D- -and in my experience better sound fidelity.
As I posted before, both of these will plug into the Digitrax 8-pin NMRA to 9-pin Digitrax harness- -NO SOLDERING!!!
Jumpshot724I'm partial to the LokSound just based on internet reviews...
If you peruse the DCC forum you will find many instances of experienced hobbyists having issues with these decoders.
jjdamnitSimply put- -any DCC product manufactured that adheres to the NMRA standards will work with others that adhere to the same standards. There are currently a few exceptions. Those are being resolved between the manufacturers and the NMRA.
LokSound is one of the manufacturers that have employed a different architecture for their decoders to circumvent the NMRA standards.
What I am suggesting is the easiest way to add sound, motor, and lighting functions to your "DCC Ready" NMRA 8-pin compatible locomotives without having to invest time and money in learning how to soldering.
jjdamnitDigitrax has recently developed an upgrade for the SDXH167D Sound Decoder so an Energy Storage Unit (ESU) also known as a "Power Xtender" or "Keep-Alive"- -which acts like a small battery, for short power interruptions.
Another plug-and-play option to make your locomotives more reliable at a relatively inexpensive cost- -versus the purchase of a soldering iron and specialty tools.
I perceive you want to get up and running with DCC sound locomotives with the least amount of hassle and money.
Jumpshot724the digitrax 167D would do the trick but I can't tell if that's just sound or if it will handle DCC motor finctions as well?
Are there any sound only decoders anymore? Well I guess there are, ones that provide environmental sounds like running streams and ones that provide sound to reefers and other rolling stock. I'm not even sure how to find those.
Loksound does offer some sound only decoders for cab cars and such that just do noise and lights and don't control motors.
Jumpshot724--One more factor to consider is programming. You said you weren't electronically inclined and I'm assuming you are like me when I first got into the DCC locos. Installing is only part of the DCC world. You also have to add learning how to program the DCC stuff as well which personally I think is a huge pita and can be time consuming. That is until I found Loksound. You get a programmer box for the decoders and I can change any and all settings in seconds with a click of a button. It's HUGELY easier than the other decoders. I personally think Loksound sounds better, has better slow speed control and just the ease of programming makes them my goto. But everyone will have their .02 on the brand. They aren't the cheapest but they are fantastic decoders and I've never once regretted going stictly with them.
Definitely consider the programming factor. That's a part that no one mentioned when I first started getting DCC ready locos.
Mike
5150WS6You get a programmer box for the decoders...
That's an additional $140.00 to $160.00 for this unit to program these proprietary decoders!
Digitrax offers free software if you want to change the sound files with your PC- -a Mac version is not available.
I'll take free- -over the cost of two (2) SDH167D Series 7 Sound Decoders and PX-PX112-10 Power Xtenders.
For programming decoders, I use the free JMRI Decoder Pro.
If you are not familiar with calculating CVs Digitrax offers a free CV calculator specific to their decoders.
Free seems better to me!
But...
ESU LOK Sound Programmer Set
My first install was a bit of a disaster, but damages were limited because I had gone with a non-sound decoder.
I went up the learning curve gradually, reading stuff online and programming my decoders with my system. Eventually, I bought the hardware to program with my PC and JMRI, but it's not absolutely necessary for the basic stuff.
And you don't need to stick to one decoder manufacturer - just identify the loco with a pencil on each decoder instruction set, and write down the CVs in case you need to do a reset.
5150WS6 Loksound does offer some sound only decoders for cab cars and such that just do noise and lights and don't control motors. Jumpshot724--One more factor to consider is programming. You said you weren't electronically inclined and I'm assuming you are like me when I first got into the DCC locos. Installing is only part of the DCC world. You also have to add learning how to program the DCC stuff as well which personally I think is a huge pita and can be time consuming. That is until I found Loksound. You get a programmer box for the decoders and I can change any and all settings in seconds with a click of a button. It's HUGELY easier than the other decoders. I personally think Loksound sounds better, has better slow speed control and just the ease of programming makes them my goto. But everyone will have their .02 on the brand. They aren't the cheapest but they are fantastic decoders and I've never once regretted going stictly with them. Definitely consider the programming factor. That's a part that no one mentioned when I first started getting DCC ready locos. Mike
Regards, Chris
TophiasI disagree with the assessmen that Loksound is easier to program. I use JMRI, and when I open it to adjust sound levels, it doesn't say "Horn Level" or "Bell Level", it says "Sound Slot", with no indication as to which slot is bell, horn, prime mover, etc.
Hi Chris,
I suspect that the difference for you is that you are using JMRI. When I am using my LokProgrammer, all of that detailed information shows up. Of course, the LokProgrammer is not free, but it is very thorough in what it can do.
The ESU manuals explain which sound slots contain which sounds.
ESU decoders are really sophisticated, and to get into them requires the LokProgrammer software. They can do all manner of things which the software graphically illustrates.
The LokProgrammer may be an additional cost, but it is worth it if you have more than a few ESU decoders. They are wicked fast for reading and writing data, you can update the decoder's firmware and even set a number of defaults, such as the address. Due to the number of CVs used, it is much faster than JMRI for reading and writing. There is a very specific process when using JMRI with ESU decoders.
The software can be used on it's own, with the capability to export the changes made as a file which can be imported by JMRI. When used with the hardware it can also create a record (in PDF) of all the CV settings.
https://dccwiki.com/LokProgrammer
https://dccwiki.com/Programming_ESU_Decoders
Dave,Betamax, I do appreciate your support of Loksound and I do understand the level of sophistication Loksound offers. But for me, I'd rather just "get in and get out", change address, tweak volume of bell,horn, prime mover. I don't do any function mapping or lighting capability. I'd rather spend my time finishing my layout than spending additional time at my laptop. But that's me. And yes, a few years ago the Loksound motor control was superior to that of Soundtraxx. But I think with the advent of Tsunami2 they're both equal in that respect.
Digitrax "Soundbug" is a sound-only decoder you can use for steam or diesel engines. However, you'll still need a regular (non-sound) motion and light decoder piggybacked on top of it. Probably better to just install one sound decoder with all the features.
https://www.digitrax.com/products/sound-decoders/sfx006/
Although there's been some very good advice on soldering, note that unless you have old (pre-2000) engines, you probably can just plug in decoders without soldering anything - or perhaps just needing to solder connections to a speaker/enclosure, although some decoders have a plug-in for that.
Decoder Pro is a great way to program decoders, but you will still some way to connect a programming track to your computer. Digitrax PR4 works well and doesn't cost too much. It also allows you to download sounds onto Digitrax decoders so you can change it as you wish.
TCS decoders have a "talk back" verbal feature, so once installed, you can program most of the functions without needing anything than your DCC system.
Thanks everyone for the input. After deliberation over this thread's content, and a discussion with two hobby shops, I've opted to go with the Soundtraxx Blunami 2200. I ordered 1 for now, and pending how that goes I'll either stick with that or try something new. I will have to do some work, but just to attatch the speaker.
Both hobby shops overwhelmingly raved about the Blunami, it's the Tsunami 2 but with bluetooth capability which makes programming easy (via phone) and you can also use phones/tablets as additional throttles should you have visitors. Not to mention, the 2200 is plug-and-play with the models I'm looking to initially convert just need to peel back a very small amount of the wrap. One of the hobby shop owners was actually actively in the process of changing his personal locomotive fleet. When I walked in he was working on #4
Great! Please report back on the process and results.
Jumpshot724 Thanks everyone for the input. After deliberation over this thread's content, and a discussion with two hobby shops, I've opted to go with the Soundtraxx Blunami 2200. I ordered 1 for now, and pending how that goes I'll either stick with that or try something new. I will have to do some work, but just to attatch the speaker. Both hobby shops overwhelmingly raved about the Blunami, it's the Tsunami 2 but with bluetooth capability which makes programming easy (via phone) and you can also use phones/tablets as additional throttles should you have visitors. Not to mention, the 2200 is plug-and-play with the models I'm looking to initially convert just need to peel back a very small amount of the wrap. One of the hobby shop owners was actually actively in the process of changing his personal locomotive fleet. When I walked in he was working on #4
Who are you?
The jst 9 pin is no muss no fuss. All you have to do is find a place for the speaker enclosure. (You have to seal the backend for best sound)
Tcs wow and loksound are the favorites these days. But soundtraxx tsunami 2 isn't bad. But people are often disappointed by the diesel sounds.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
Although it's a touch pricey, the Blunami does seem to have some advantages over regular sound decoders. It will be interesting to see if that becomes the next step in DCC - "user friendly" sound decoders that you control and program with your phone or tablet.
Guess if it really catches on, I might have to break down and finally get a cell phone.
Staring at a cellphone or tablet screen to control my locomotives has zero appeal to me.
tstage Staring at a cellphone or tablet screen to control my locomotives has zero appeal to me. Tom
I am curious about Blunami. For now, I find it cost prohibitive, but like most things, the price will probably go down. Hopefully anyway. I use Digitrax sound decoders that are way more affordable (about half the price - which is not insignificant for a loco junkie like me). But I look forward to seeing reports about how the Blunami pans out in terms of installation, how they work through tunnels, large layouts, other operators using ones in the same session, interaction with various systems and decoders, etc.
snjroy tstage Staring at a cellphone or tablet screen to control my locomotives has zero appeal to me. Tom If you are running more than 2 locomotives, not necessarily at the same time but within the same session, controlling your trains from the cellphone is a true pleasure. Switching locos is super easy, and the cell is way more confortable to handle than some of those larger DCC system handles. Other advantage: no wires and no issues with batteries. You can also use an older cellphone at low cost, without a data plan or phone line (these are not necessary to work in Wifi or Bluetooth mode). Setting up a consist is also super-easy. The only investment needed is a Wifi interface, which most major DCC systems offer I believe. The app is free on Android phones. Iphone users have access to a free app, but with limited features. Some folks don't like the screen interface, but I got used to it. Simon
If you are running more than 2 locomotives, not necessarily at the same time but within the same session, controlling your trains from the cellphone is a true pleasure. Switching locos is super easy, and the cell is way more confortable to handle than some of those larger DCC system handles. Other advantage: no wires and no issues with batteries. You can also use an older cellphone at low cost, without a data plan or phone line (these are not necessary to work in Wifi or Bluetooth mode). Setting up a consist is also super-easy. The only investment needed is a Wifi interface, which most major DCC systems offer I believe. The app is free on Android phones. Iphone users have access to a free app, but with limited features. Some folks don't like the screen interface, but I got used to it.
I get it, Simon. In fact, I purchased an ESU CabControl wireless DCC system a little over a year ago to try, which has built-in wi-fi and can also use my home's wi-fi. It's okay and the MCII throttle has some neat features to it but the system can also be a bit finnicky.
Although tethered, I find my Power Cab more comfortable to hold than a cellphone. It also doesn't require me to look at the LCD screen or throttle buttons if I want to change speeds, change direction, blow the whistle or horn, or apply the emergency stop. I can do all that with my thumb - without looking - one-handed.
And, while perhaps a little faster using a cellphone interface, pulling up another locomotive address using the SELECT LOCO button or RECALL button is not a big deal to me. So, I guess I'm one of those in the "don't like the screen interface" group when operating trains.
If decoder manufacturers eventually develop the capability to incorporate bluetooth in their current offerings (i.e. operating in either bluetooth or non-bluetooth mode) and address any possible shortcomings (like the ones you've mentioned), I might consider looking at one. I'm won't be going out of my way though to replace any previously installed decoders.
wjstix Guess if it really catches on, I might have to break down and finally get a cell phone.
I don't see it catching on with ho scale. A large part of the community doesn't even use DC. I consider myself tech savvy and am young but I don't want to use my phone for operation. The model railroad is my chance to be unplugged from all of that.
Tophias But that's me. And yes, a few years ago the Loksound motor control was superior to that of Soundtraxx. But I think with the advent of Tsunami2 they're both equal in that respect.
But that's me. And yes, a few years ago the Loksound motor control was superior to that of Soundtraxx. But I think with the advent of Tsunami2 they're both equal in that respect.
I have had Loksound 5 and tsunami 2 big steam (2021 release) in an Athearn Big boy as a control. The Loksound 5 provided significantly better motor control. I don't believe the Tsunami 2 steam decoders are priced well. They get outcompeted by both Loksound 5 and TCS Wow Steam in audio, performance, and control. However, they aren't bad, just badly priced. Econami decoders are a much better value proposition if you can find them.