NCE Wiring kit/Suitcase questions

[The Milwaukee Road Warrior]

Hello all,

Been a while since I've posted.  At Trainfest last year I bought a 100' NCE DCC wiring kit, seen here: https://www.ncedcc.com/online-store/LWK100-Layout-Wiring-Kit-100-Foot-DCC-power-bus-p56656564

As I'm getting closer to wiring I've been looking more at the kit.  

I happen to follow the blog of another poster on this site, who runs the New York & Long Branch model railroad.  If I remember right, his name is Jerry.  His site (below) has amazing photos of years of progress on his layout.

I'm linking to page 9 of his blog because if you scroll down to near the bottom of the page you will see he posts about using "cheap knock-off" suitcase connectors for his feeder drops to his buss - and paying the price for it.  

What prompted my post today is his picture showing 3M suitcase connectors (photo right) vs the cheap ones (photo left) ...which look even better than the ones I see in my $150 NCE wiring kit.  Hmmm.

https://nyandlb.com/construction_progress9.htm

Needless to say, I'm concerned with the hardware in the wiring kit.

Does anyone have experience with the NCE kit(s) in particular?  With these blue suitcase connectors vs. 3M?

Here is a close-up of the connectors that is a little easier to see, and another link to them in Amazon.  Again, they are even less "beefy" than the ones on Jerry's blog that he had issues with.

https://www.ncedcc.com/online-store/Track-Bus-Taps-Blue-package-of-64-14-16AWG-p56656570

T-TAPS at Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/3M-T-TAP-Disconnect-Connector-Terminal/dp/B078PVSR2H/ref=sr_1_7?keywords=3m+suitcase+connectors&qid=1689437359&refinements=p_89%3A3M&rnid=2528832011&s=industrial&sr=1-7

I'm wondering if I just spring for 3M ones (I'm not a risk taker) from the get-go.  I'm getting the feeling that to use the kit ones I'm rolling the dice.  

The thought of this additional expense is upsetting: I would hope that for what the kit costs NCE would provide a quality connector - and maybe these are.  I just have no experience at all with ANY of these connectors.  

I will not be soldering my drops btw.

Any thoughts appreciated!

 

[tstage]

Andy,

I do not have any experience with the NCE suitcase connectors.  I have used the 3M connectors and they work great.

If soldering is out of the question then my recommendation would be to spring for the 3M connectors for quality and peace of mind and not look back.

FWIW,

Tom

[karle]

I have not used NCE Ttaps but did use some that weren't 3M (bought them from Home Depot). They worked fine but I now prefer Wago connectors, because they are fully reusable. Just lift the orange lever, insert the stripped end of the wire, then close the orange lever. Here is a link to one supplier on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/Wago-221-413-LEVER-NUTS-Conductor-Connectors/dp/B06XGYXVXR/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1DX3HISOKDZ7B&keywords=wago+221-413&qid=1689477711&sprefix=wago+221%2Caps%2C215&sr=8-3

I solder most connections/drops (it is not difficult under the bench, despite what many say),  I use Wagos in tight spots or where I suspect I may make changes in the future.

[rrebell]

karle

I have not used NCE Ttaps but did use some that weren't 3M (bought them from Home Depot). They worked fine but I now prefer Wago connectors, because they are fully reusable. Just lift the orange lever, insert the stripped end of the wire, then close the orange lever. Here is a link to one supplier on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/Wago-221-413-LEVER-NUTS-Conductor-Connectors/dp/B06XGYXVXR/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1DX3HISOKDZ7B&keywords=wago+221-413&qid=1689477711&sprefix=wago+221%2Caps%2C215&sr=8-3

I solder most connections/drops (it is not difficult under the bench, despite what many say),  I use Wagos in tight spots or where I suspect I may make changes in the future.

 

I use Posi-taps for the same reason, never a problem and reusable and each can hold up to 5 wires to the buss wire.

[BigDaddy]

I'm not reading his whole blog to find out where is short was but I don't see how using a cheap connector between wires of the same polarity can cause a short.  Dollars to donuts, he miswired his feeders.

The newest Scotchlok connectors on Amazon don't look like his. 

T-Taps are different than what is commonly called suitcase connectors by the MR staff.  Both are IDC's insulation displacement connectors.  The T-Tap require a small spade connector to be attached to feeder and that plugs into the blue tap in the picture.  I don't know why you would need or want that with track feeders.

Connectors come in different sizes to accomodate different sized bus and feeders.

NCE is overpriced when it comes to wire, power poles and the like.

[IRONROOSTER]

I use 3M scotchlok.  I use the 567 since I have solid wire 12 ga bus. and 18 ga feeders. These work great.

Paul

 

[AEP528]

The Milwaukee Road Warrior

Hello all,

Been a while since I've posted.  At Trainfest last year I bought a 100' NCE DCC wiring kit, seen here: https://www.ncedcc.com/online-store/LWK100-Layout-Wiring-Kit-100-Foot-DCC-power-bus-p56656564

As I'm getting closer to wiring I've been looking more at the kit.  

I happen to follow the blog of another poster on this site, who runs the New York & Long Branch model railroad.  If I remember right, his name is Jerry.  His site (below) has amazing photos of years of progress on his layout.

I'm linking to page 9 of his blog because if you scroll down to near the bottom of the page you will see he posts about using "cheap knock-off" suitcase connectors for his feeder drops to his buss - and paying the price for it.  

What prompted my post today is his picture showing 3M suitcase connectors (photo right) vs the cheap ones (photo left) ...which look even better than the ones I see in my $150 NCE wiring kit.  Hmmm.

https://nyandlb.com/construction_progress9.htm

Needless to say, I'm concerned with the hardware in the wiring kit.

Does anyone have experience with the NCE kit(s) in particular?  With these blue suitcase connectors vs. 3M?

Here is a close-up of the connectors that is a little easier to see, and another link to them in Amazon.  Again, they are even less "beefy" than the ones on Jerry's blog that he had issues with.

https://www.ncedcc.com/online-store/Track-Bus-Taps-Blue-package-of-64-14-16AWG-p56656570

T-TAPS at Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/3M-T-TAP-Disconnect-Connector-Terminal/dp/B078PVSR2H/ref=sr_1_7?keywords=3m+suitcase+connectors&qid=1689437359&refinements=p_89%3A3M&rnid=2528832011&s=industrial&sr=1-7

I'm wondering if I just spring for 3M ones (I'm not a risk taker) from the get-go.  I'm getting the feeling that to use the kit ones I'm rolling the dice.  

The thought of this additional expense is upsetting: I would hope that for what the kit costs NCE would provide a quality connector - and maybe these are.  I just have no experience at all with ANY of these connectors.  

I will not be soldering my drops btw.

Any thoughts appreciated!

 

 

They are two different types of connectors. The NCE t-taps are designed to allow disconnecting, while the "suitcase" connectors do not. One is not inherently worse than the other, it's two different applications. Are the NCE ones 3M branded like the Amazon link? 

[Geared Steam]

karle

I have not used NCE Ttaps but did use some that weren't 3M (bought them from Home Depot). They worked fine but I now prefer Wago connectors, because they are fully reusable. Just lift the orange lever, insert the stripped end of the wire, then close the orange lever. Here is a link to one supplier on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/Wago-221-413-LEVER-NUTS-Conductor-Connectors/dp/B06XGYXVXR/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1DX3HISOKDZ7B&keywords=wago+221-413&qid=1689477711&sprefix=wago+221%2Caps%2C215&sr=8-3

I solder most connections/drops (it is not difficult under the bench, despite what many say),  I use Wagos in tight spots or where I suspect I may make changes in the future.

 

Wagos are are an outstanding product, although expensive, but worth every cent to me.

[The Milwaukee Road Warrior]

Thanks for the thoughts and clarifications guys.  I want to basically do this one time and be done (fingers crossed, no shorts) so I am going to avoid using the stuff NCE provided and instead use either the 3M of Wago connectors.  I do like the ability of the Wago to reopen and reuse.

A follow up question:

Am I wise to wire in terminal strips for future functionality?  One thing I read about often is circuit protection.  I'm green on this aspect of the hobby, but it seems that I can wire in strips and leave them unused for now.  This is a case of me not knowing what I don't know and trying to plan ahead should I realize I need to wire in something later.  I realize I could just use the strips for my feeders, but the Wago's will make it so easy to troubleshoot later that I'd rather use them I think.

Larry Puckett has discussed running a separate DC buss for accessories, but I was under the impression that lighting (for example) can "simply" be powered from DCC? Or that I could buy a power strip and plug in something like Woodland Scenics lighting without any connection to my track power.

Sorry, kinda all over the map here.

EDIT: just ordered two packs of 50-each Wago 221-413 from Amazon to connect my 14awg buss and 22awg feeders.

[gregc]

The Milwaukee Road Warrior

Am I wise to wire in terminal strips for future functionality?

first, i'd recommend verifying the polarity after each connection is made.   a lighted car, a sound loco running, perhaps a light on long leads with aligator clips to the track that can hang down and be seen under the layout

it's helpful to be able to isolate parts of the track in order to locate problems such as shorts.   this doesn't just mean the buses, it means using insulated rail joiners as well.   this might normally be done when dividing the tracks into power districts.   so not always practical on a small layout

The Milwaukee Road Warrior

but I was under the impression that lighting (for example) can "simply" be powered from DCC?

not a good practice.   why not just get a wall wart providing DC power for accessories?

[The Milwaukee Road Warrior]

gregc

 

 

 

The Milwaukee Road Warrior

but I was under the impression that lighting (for example) can "simply" be powered from DCC?

 

 

not a good practice.   why not just get a wall wart providing DC power for accessories?

 

Right, and that's what I was saying with my power strip comment, and by extension, questioning why I would need a separate DC power buss for accessories when I can just buy a power strip and (from what I can tell with Woodland Scenics plug and play for example) plug in wall warts.

[karle]

Road Warrior- Terminal strips are convenient depending on what you are trying to accomplish. But they are (surprisingly) expensive for what they are.  For example, you could use them for your feeders, but Wagos are cheaper and faster (as are ttaps or suitcase connectors or soldering (the cheapest of all)). As a beginner, I suggest you buy a few terminal strips, and you will learn while wiring where they most make sense to use.  Buy fairly long ones as they can be cut down to the number of connections you need (even the "barrier" "Molex" type, with a hacksaw. The white style are easier to cut:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/374635414385?hash=item573a02c371:g:2RAAAOSwW8VkN3zj&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4EqYI4RUThsnh5nE5fZglmQJ%2Fc83J0YEiByp6LbprlybGmKZC0MbthpJldK%2B0YrQVpXYdMX4XJ4GJyTITIYitShUW9NGrE%2F4R0lz%2Bt7v6GXTMevYxmOD0BsTQQVk%2BXk3sdwKWNc0a%2B7uAz9nsOJI1k%2Fp1FzJhihIiHyV9pe%2Bbx0KpRBKJYndmily1dLnC0MFpnsnB2hYtQ3EOrY52f8K403jWBg9VMhbV6c1ebEp2Bi1Fi3K1LjWtri%2Bdrwg%2FiT7OLVpdpI0LXRG9Qwa18UksfHboNFojm3IShKrModHbkuR%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR_6e3oOyYg

Don't use your DCC bus for accessories like lighting. You want to reserve that power for locomotives or accessory decoders, things that need to be communicated to. It (the amount of amperage available) gets used up faster than you think, and adding boosters gets expensive, especially if you are adding them because of non-DCC accessories you powered off your DCC bus. A separate DC bus is the best option, because you only need to plug it into one location, and you can buy a 12 volt power supply that puts out a purer DC voltage than wall warts (for less than $20). Some LEDs don't work well off cheap wall warts. That said, if your layout is fairly small, power strips and wall warts may be the easier way to initially go, and should be fine for most LEDs, in particular WS just plug.

Bottom line, start small and just do it, and you will find out what works best for you. 

[NVSRR]

I would recommend which ever version you choose, go out to Mouser.com.  It is a larger electrical supplier.  they do have everything.   Tools too.  Look for the connectors there and check the per unit price.   Almost garauntee it is far cheaper.       wAGO or 3m or others worth looking before buying.   Terminal blocks are far cheaper there
shane