Had my prgrammer for years. Love it. But I had to upgrade my old pc which had windows 10 and the programmer worked perfectly on. Now I'm trying to get the programmer to get recognized in Windows 11 on the laptop.
I am going insane. I downloaded the latest lokprogrammer software from ESU. Installed no issue. Started with the stock USB drivers. Wouldn't recognize the programmer. Then downloaded the drivers from ESU's site. Still won't recognize the programmer. Then searched the forums and found a third party serial->USB set of drivers. Installed and still won't recognize the programmer.
I've tried it all. In each of those steps I've done drivers, reboot and tried with the programmer unplugged. Then tried installing the drivers with the programmer plugged in. No dice. I've rebooted about 19 times, tried all the drivers I can try. I'm also doing the plugging in right. Close the program, plug in the programmer then open the programmer. Just for giggles I tried to open the program and then plug the programmer in. Still nothing on either set up. I'm frustrated and just want to enjoy some programming time and I love ESU......but this is insanely frustrating. Any input from anyone? I never should have upgraded my pc and I'd be fine but noooooooo! LOL
Mike
Could it be that there are hardware-security settings that are (quietly) restricting communication with the older hardware? I have utterly no experience with the specialized hardware that 11 requires to run, or what sort of 'protection' it implements on traffic from the USB ports.
I mention this because Google has silently implemented login blocking from some older gmail clients -- they claim there is some kind of 'one-time password' service that you can use with these, but I can't get it past the account information to be able to enter their damn password. This acts like the kind of 'security' Alan Kay et al. used to talk about: if you can't even get to the credentials entry, your system will remain quite 'secure'...
I'd contact ESU support about this -- they will likely have encountered any systemic issue with Win11 and may have definitive advice, or a workaround.
I've got an email into them. They just seem to take so long to respond.....but I bet you're right. Its something silly I'm not thinking Of or missing and should be turning off so it's not causing the issue.
Hopefully they get back to me quickly. I'll post the response here for others.
I've been following the Loksound-at-groups.io threads for a while now. Out of curioscity I searched 'Windows 11' there and came up with a few threads concerning the Lokprogrammer and Win11. There is also a downloadable driver there that is suggested for Win11 Arm USB/Serial setups.
I'd suggest looking into this route and if you don't see an immediate solution then post a question there. I'd give a direct link but the MR folks, understandably, prefer not to link to other forums.
If your new computer has a Windows Arm processor you might need a different USB cable or some kind of adapter. I can't say for sure as I'm still on the vintage Win 10.
https://www.androidauthority.com/windows-on-arm-explained-3100713/
Matt Herman, the North America ESU tech rep hasn't been replaced as far as I know leaving a large void in ESU support.
Good luck, Ed
Can you right click on the programmer icon and select Run as administrator? That's what I had to do when my netbook was upgraded to 10.
Pete
Could be basic computer stuff that most people don't seem to know anymore. When you deleat a program it can take a long time for it to be overwritten if you don't add a lot of stuff all the time. What happens is you load a new version of a program and the computer picks up code from old program that has not been overwritten yet and thinks it is part of new program. This used to be a real problem for people but not so much anymore but base code on this program could be very old computer wize. PS ignore this if this was a fresh instillatation and you didn't sync with old computer.
The latest update to win10 and all of win11 will not let you run apps(used to be called programs.) From third parties. Unless it comes from the Windows store or pre loaded on the computer. Just select run as administrator and it lets win know you take full responsibility if something happens.
I found this out when one of the apps I use for adjusting the gyros on my RC helicopters stopped working. The day before the update worked fine. The netbook updated overnight and the next day the app stopped working.
After you select RUN AS ADMINISTRATOR, you may get a couple warnings. Just okay them and the Lokprogrammer should work as before.
Pete.
rrebell Could be basic computer stuff that most people don't seem to know anymore. When you deleat a program it can take a long time for it to be overwritten if you don't add a lot of stuff all the time. What happens is you load a new version of a program and the computer picks up code from old program that has not been overwritten yet and thinks it is part of new program. This used to be a real problem for people but not so much anymore but base code on this program could be very old computer wize. PS ignore this if this was a fresh instillatation and you didn't sync with old computer.
This is absolutely untrue.
wrench567 The latest update to win10 and all of win11 will not let you run apps(used to be called programs.) From third parties. Unless it comes from the Windows store or pre loaded on the computer. Just select run as administrator and it lets win know you take full responsibility if something happens. I found this out when one of the apps I use for adjusting the gyros on my RC helicopters stopped working. The day before the update worked fine. The netbook updated overnight and the next day the app stopped working. After you select RUN AS ADMINISTRATOR, you may get a couple warnings. Just okay them and the Lokprogrammer should work as before. Pete.
AEP528 wrench567 The latest update to win10 and all of win11 will not let you run apps(used to be called programs.) From third parties. Unless it comes from the Windows store or pre loaded on the computer. Just select run as administrator and it lets win know you take full responsibility if something happens. I found this out when one of the apps I use for adjusting the gyros on my RC helicopters stopped working. The day before the update worked fine. The netbook updated overnight and the next day the app stopped working. After you select RUN AS ADMINISTRATOR, you may get a couple warnings. Just okay them and the Lokprogrammer should work as before. Pete. This is absolutely untrue.
What is untrue about it? Search Windows knowledge base and find out for yourself. If you have anything positive to add, please do.
Recommends, not so much to solve this problem - yet to help some of you to avoid having this problem.
First - DONT update to win10 or 11. Keep your "old" machine (either laptop or PC -herein after called "puter") and just replace it. You might think that is cost prohibitive but just wait until the problems start rolling in (like this one). The 'fix it' costs/hassles will always be more than a new puter. IT Techs arent cheap - I charge $100/hr. all day long. The 1-800-call-India techs will take you for alot more than that!
Second - if you are being coerced into updating, and you cant save your old machine, atleast back it up OR replace the hard drive completely (way cheaper than new puter) beforehand. This allows you to have essentially "2" operating systems for the same puter. Yes its a wonker to have to switch drives back and forth yet still better than dealing with windows latest pirateware probelms. (and you will always have your programs/data in its original form - working!)
Third - while companys typically follow the operating system when writing new software (new op sys = new software versions obviously), if their software isnt backward compatable (smart programming!) OR the company doesnt offer a version for 'older' op sys's...... then you dont want their product period! Even if you love it!
Fourth - turn off any 'auto-updating' you have turned on. This is how pirateware propagates. As most of you have found out when you wake up the next morning and find you have totally new software you didnt ask for.... and its broken to boot. "But what about my security updates, i gotta keep current dont I?" - if it was well written software and field tested properly - it wouldnt need security updates!
Most of you are well past these points, and its too late to help. Mainly for those who are still holding on to older puters with older operating systems. VERY smart!
Remember folks - programs, albeit operating system or the software running on that system (you call them "apps" now), that are updated frequently or alot.... are badly written programs to begin with. A well written piece of software wont need to be updated, if at all. Also remember 'versions' are different from 'updates'.
Im sorry I cannot offer help to the OP except to say I would undo everything you did. Go back to what you had. I cant fathom why you would 'fix what wasnt broke' in the first place. Your on the right track - searching for a working driver - but what if you cant get one? What then? Hint: the old one worked!
If you dont think the old stuff is better/safer, this post was written on an old (over 10yrs old) puter running win7 with IE11. No malware scanners, no anti virus agents, no social diseases like Disgracebook, Tik Tok, or tweeting for twits and no "403" errors (like some readers know about!). Have to admit to using google products but then, they own the world so there are some things you just have to bend over to. Thats why its called 'pirateware'.
Good luck to everyone on this one!
PMR
PS: Clicking "Administrator" only solves 'security' questions. It does not fix driver problems. Ergo - if your system is running perfectly - no driver problems, then clicking the admin button will gain you priveledges. But if you have a bad/missing driver and you access that, clicking the admin button wont do diddly for you. The admin button is for security purposes only, not system issues.
Deleted files - true, when files are deleted only the first byte of the deleted data is changed leaving the remaining deleted file contents on the drive (this is how some 3d party softwares can retrieve your data for you). However, from day one(!) of the very first computer ever, this problem was solved by design in how the file system is handled. Thats what changing the first byte is for, to let the system know the following data is supposed to be 'deleted' and therefore 'skipped' over during any read process. This area of deleted data is essentialy viewed by the system as 'land for sale' and can be written over by new data at any time. If this wasnt the case, then from day one, no puter on the planet would have worked correctly!
AEP528 rrebell Could be basic computer stuff that most people don't seem to know anymore. When you deleat a program it can take a long time for it to be overwritten if you don't add a lot of stuff all the time. What happens is you load a new version of a program and the computer picks up code from old program that has not been overwritten yet and thinks it is part of new program. This used to be a real problem for people but not so much anymore but base code on this program could be very old computer wize. PS ignore this if this was a fresh instillatation and you didn't sync with old computer. This is absolutely untrue.
PM Railfan Recommends, not so much to solve this problem - yet to help some of you to avoid having this problem. First - DONT update to win10 or 11. Keep your "old" machine (either laptop or PC -herein after called "puter") and just replace it. You might think that is cost prohibitive but just wait until the problems start rolling in (like this one). The 'fix it' costs/hassles will always be more than a new puter. IT Techs arent cheap - I charge $100/hr. all day long. The 1-800-call-India techs will take you for alot more than that! Second - if you are being coerced into updating, and you cant save your old machine, atleast back it up OR replace the hard drive completely (way cheaper than new puter) beforehand. This allows you to have essentially "2" operating systems for the same puter. Yes its a wonker to have to switch drives back and forth yet still better than dealing with windows latest pirateware probelms. (and you will always have your programs/data in its original form - working!) Third - while companys typically follow the operating system when writing new software (new op sys = new software versions obviously), if their software isnt backward compatable (smart programming!) OR the company doesnt offer a version for 'older' op sys's...... then you dont want their product period! Even if you love it! Fourth - turn off any 'auto-updating' you have turned on. This is how pirateware propagates. As most of you have found out when you wake up the next morning and find you have totally new software you didnt ask for.... and its broken to boot. "But what about my security updates, i gotta keep current dont I?" - if it was well written software and field tested properly - it wouldnt need security updates! Most of you are well past these points, and its too late to help. Mainly for those who are still holding on to older puters with older operating systems. VERY smart! Remember folks - programs, albeit operating system or the software running on that system (you call them "apps" now), that are updated frequently or alot.... are badly written programs to begin with. A well written piece of software wont need to be updated, if at all. Also remember 'versions' are different from 'updates'. Im sorry I cannot offer help to the OP except to say I would undo everything you did. Go back to what you had. I cant fathom why you would 'fix what wasnt broke' in the first place. Your on the right track - searching for a working driver - but what if you cant get one? What then? Hint: the old one worked! If you dont think the old stuff is better/safer, this post was written on an old (over 10yrs old) puter running win7 with IE11. No malware scanners, no anti virus agents, no social diseases like Disgracebook, Tik Tok, or tweeting for twits and no "403" errors (like some readers know about!). Have to admit to using google products but then, they own the world so there are some things you just have to bend over to. Thats why its called 'pirateware'. Good luck to everyone on this one! PMR PS: Clicking "Administrator" only solves 'security' questions. It does not fix driver problems. Ergo - if your system is running perfectly - no driver problems, then clicking the admin button will gain you priveledges. But if you have a bad/missing driver and you access that, clicking the admin button wont do diddly for you. The admin button is for security purposes only, not system issues. Deleted files - true, when files are deleted only the first byte of the deleted data is changed leaving the remaining deleted file contents on the drive (this is how some 3d party softwares can retrieve your data for you). However, from day one(!) of the very first computer ever, this problem was solved by design in how the file system is handled. Thats what changing the first byte is for, to let the system know the following data is supposed to be 'deleted' and therefore 'skipped' over during any read process. This area of deleted data is essentialy viewed by the system as 'land for sale' and can be written over by new data at any time. If this wasnt the case, then from day one, no puter on the planet would have worked correctly!
Believe me. If I didn't have to update I wouldn't. I am a IT guy as well and with my last system I just built I've got all that auto update garbage turned off. Unfortunately to stay up with my work stuff, I am forced to move on with technology and the programs. One of the flaws of using my pc for work and play.
You are very correct in the fact that "run as admin" didn't do squat unfortunatley for me.
I still haven't heard back from Loksound after a week. And so I'm stuck. I will try to update drives again tonight but so far using Loksound or third party drivers I have had zero luck. I wish Loksound would keep updating their software because in my book it's a better programming system than anything else on the market.
I'll keep at it and see what I can do tonight. Thanks for all the recommends guys!
Ed,
Thanks for the info on that forum. I'm still poking around there. Unfortunately the drivers they recommended were all some that I had tried unsuccessfully.
I'll keep at it. Was hoping after a week Loksound would have responded with something.....but nothing yet. :(
Im not sure of your puter literacy level, and without being hands on with your puter i can only make 'suggestions'. Here's one that kinda lets you get back what you had, and still bend over for the update your being forced to take.
There are programs out there for puters called VM's (Virtual Machines) that when running, allow a puter to run a totally 'other' operating system like an "app", while your current operating system is still running your puter. Make sense?
Its like having Windows as a program running on your Windows puter at the same time. Windows in Windows. How does this help you? Well,
If your on Win11 (my sympathies) now, and the last time this LOK program worked was on Win10 (even more sympathies), then run your Win11 normally, start your VM and load Win10 in it.
Once the VM with Win10 is installed, up and running, load your LOK program into the Win10 like you normally would load the program. (or any other program you had on Win10)
Yes I know, its a huge learning curve due to the insane amount of setting things up. It only allows you to have both the new and old at same time, on one puter. Probably isnt for you, or anyone without a serious amount of puter knowledge.
That being said, if you can pull it off, the advantages are enormous. Wanna play the original "Tetris" for Windows? You can do that with a VM running Win98SE. Or even WinXP. With a click of your mouse you can be back on Win11 running Office or something. Its that easy once set up.
Complicated - yes. But sometimes you have to go to this extreme when a driver, or even a piece of hardware is not supported anymore any you absolutely have to have it!
And being that it would be Windows on Windows, you can enjoy the "click and drag" feature between 'both' operating systems. Too many benefits to list here but certainly 'a fix' to your problem is one of them. Should you exhaust all other methods of finding your driver first.
Good luck!
I am running the latest June updates for Windoz 10 and for net framework and I don't have to run Lokprogrammer as an administrator.
Actually as I think of it, I run several programs, unrelated to MR and I don't have to use administrator.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
5150WS6 Believe me. If I didn't have to update I wouldn't. I am a IT guy as well and with my last system I just built I've got all that auto update garbage turned off. Unfortunately to stay up with my work stuff, I am forced to move on with technology and the programs. One of the flaws of using my pc for work and play. You are very correct in the fact that "run as admin" didn't do squat unfortunatley for me. I still haven't heard back from Loksound after a week. And so I'm stuck. I will try to update drives again tonight but so far using Loksound or third party drivers I have had zero luck. I wish Loksound would keep updating their software because in my book it's a better programming system than anything else on the market. I'll keep at it and see what I can do tonight. Thanks for all the recommends guys! Mike
PM RailfanThere are programs out there for puters called VM's (Virtual Machines) that when running, allow a puter to run a totally 'other' operating system like an "app", while your current operating system is still running your puter. Make sense? Its like having Windows as a program running on your Windows puter at the same time. Windows in Windows.
The alternative is just to get or keep an old machine with a clean software install, and use the modern equivalent of 'sneakernet' to run any critical updates or install software on that. You shouldn't need an Internet connaction -- broadband or otherwise -- to run JMRI, interrogate and debug locomotives, etc.
In the amusing 'first world problems' category -- I routinely ran my very old Macintosh files (some generated under system 6.0.8 as loaded in place of A/UX to date this for Mac aficionados) using a carefully built app called WPMacApp, which was programmed by the WordPerfect community, but with an older Mac disk image that 'just happened' to include working copies of Word 4 and QuarkXPress 4.5. Ironically while this has been rewritten for active support, the current supported version no longer runs on any actual OS X earlier than about Catalina... so I had to do hardware and software upgrades, some of which are a little undocumented, it I wanted to run System 7.5.5 in a VM...
wrench567 AEP528 wrench567 The latest update to win10 and all of win11 will not let you run apps(used to be called programs.) From third parties. Unless it comes from the Windows store or pre loaded on the computer. Just select run as administrator and it lets win know you take full responsibility if something happens. I found this out when one of the apps I use for adjusting the gyros on my RC helicopters stopped working. The day before the update worked fine. The netbook updated overnight and the next day the app stopped working. After you select RUN AS ADMINISTRATOR, you may get a couple warnings. Just okay them and the Lokprogrammer should work as before. Pete. This is absolutely untrue. What is untrue about it? Search Windows knowledge base and find out for yourself. If you have anything positive to add, please do. Pete.
What's untrue is that you can't run 3rd party programs or apps or whatever you want to call them on Win10 or Win11, unless you get them from the Windows store.
Just about every program I run, since the W95 days, is what would be considered a 3rd party (ie, non-Microsoft) program or "app". And absolutely none of them have come from the Microsoft store. MS already tracks enough of what I do without me logging into their "store" to download and install something, so I simply don't!
My guess is that your netbook is running the "S" version of Windows, since netbooks are by design intended to be limited, less-expensive devices primarily intended for Internet access. If that's the case, then yes, the "S" version limits what you can install. But that's by design based on it's intended use. It's not a limitation of Windows in general.
Oh, and your statement that selecting "Run as administrator" tells Windows that you are taking responsibility is also untrue.
"Run as administrator" tells Windows to run the program with elevated (Administrator) privileges, rather than the privileges normally granted to a user account.
You have already taken responsibility for whatever happens, the instant you turn the machine on!
Tonights suggestion -
When someone attains a new puter - what happened to their last one?
Heres a way you can solve your problem without further driver searching. Get a used PC with specs similar to the puter that had your LOK program on it - the last time it worked perfectly.
The benefits are:
You still have the current puter with Win11 - use this one for surfing the electronic sewer.
The second puter can be set back up like you had it when LOK worked last. Or with alterations....
"YOUR" puter - "YOUR" choice.
If you can keep it from connecting to the electronic sewer you will never have to worry about it forcably "updating" and wrecking YOUR puter with choices made for you by some millenial who couldnt program his way out of a pay toilet!
Can be done as cheap as "free" to as much as you really wanna spend on getting a puter specifically for your trains (this is NOT a bad idea!)
PS: The last time I bought a puter was last year at Goodwill no doubt! $12.12 "as is" for a laptop - no batt and no brick. I had those though. Its my throw-away now. Sometimes i use it here, doing the same things yall do with your fancy ones.
So if it goes down - im only out $15.
Hint: PC junkyards are just like car junkyards. They are out there, ya just gotta get a lil hitch in yer giddy up and go get one.
Speaking of older machines, i'm a bit of a gamer and missed some of the really old games so got a computer to play them (we are talking back as far as 95), didn't last long, guess I got spoiled with todays graphics.
While I totally get "Save the old heck with the new" mentality but to me.....as big of company and into tech as ESU is......I shouldn't have to "dumb down" or run 15 year old systems because of issues with the software. To me that's just lame. So while that is an option as I still have my system I built in 2013 running fine, it's also unacceptable as a consumer and feel Loksound needs to step up.
I never heard back from them as I was told "if it's in our forums we won't answer" type response. So I've been all over their forums for a week or two and still don't have a solution. Which sucks because I've got some new locos coming in August that will need some tweaking and I need to get it running on my laptop so I can make adjustments in the shop vs my office!Thanks for all the input guys, it is appreciated!
Both Windows 10 and windows 11 have something call driver signature enforcment. This is a way to for Microsoft to control which drivers are deemed "legitimate". If you have signed drivers then windows will install the drivers automatically. For the most part drivers for larger manufacturers (think HP, Dell, Epson, etc.) will install with driver enforcment enabled. For smaller manufacturers, the cost of getting the drivers signed is enormous and not worth the hassle. Windows will not install the drivers correctly unless driver signature enforcement is turned off. LocProgrammer and many hobby electronics don't have signed drivers and will not install correctly until this driver enforcement is disabled. The original drivers are probably correct but windows blocked them from being installed.
This articale will show you how to disable driver signature enforcement on windows 11.
It does involve rebooting your computer.
https://pureinfotech.com/disable-driver-signature-enforcement-windows-11/#:~:text=Click%20on%20Startup%20Settings.,Disable%20driver%20signature%20enforcement%20option.
Hope this helps. I had do to this for both my Lokprogrammer, my Sprog and my Locobuffer USB.
Colorado Front Range Railroad: http://www.coloradofrontrangerr.com/
I think a point most seem to be missing here, is that it looks like you did not just update from Windows 10 to 11, but hardware wise, as in it's a new machine.
I just ran into a similar issue with a new laptop that I got, when using my BLI programmer. It would seldom work, where I had the driver loaded, it showed in there as the USB/Serial adapter, a COM port, but the software would not talk to it. I knew it was not a Windows 11 thing, because it worked on my old laptop, which I had upgraded from 10 to 11, and after I got the new one, the old one I reformatted and installed 11 fresh on it, and the software worked just fine.
In the end, before taking the step of testing through a VM, I connected a USB hub to the laptop, and connected the programmer through the USB hub, and low and behold, "issue" resolved. Now, I won't have any luck getting Lenovo to troubleshoot the issue, as best I can tell there is an issue with the USB controller driver/software, as that is the only thing that would explain why I was having the issues, and they will refuse to look at the issue I am sure, especially for the programmer I am trying to use (even know I am sure many others use it, anyone that uses Microchip with a USB/Serial driver/interface). So basically something was not letting the program talk with the driver/device, but when the programmer was going through the "generic usb hub" as shown in Device Manager, it works like a champ.
So it may be worth giving it a try through a USB hub, assumign the driver shows up correctly, shows the right vendor info and whatnot.
For complete freedom to download 3rd party apps, "s mode" must be disabled ... via a free app from Microsoft Store themselves. The disablement is permament.
JimL For complete freedom to download 3rd party apps, "s mode" must be disabled ... via a free app from Microsoft Store themselves. The disablement is permament.
Thank you! I forgot to address that as well in my last message. Basically most cheap laptops at stores has Windows S mode. That only allows apps from their app store to be loaded, and not apps outside of that. Those laptops can be switched out of S mode, though for the most part is perminant (unless you do a system restore, etc).
On your PC running Windows 11 in S mode, open Settings > System > Activation.
In the Switch to Windows 11 Pro section, select Go to the Store. (If you also see an "Upgrade your edition of Windows" section, be careful not to click the "Go to the Store" link that appears there.)
On the Switch out of S mode (or similar) page that appears in the Microsoft Store, select the Get button. After you see a confirmation message on the page, you'll be able to install apps from outside of the Microsoft Store.
Unfortunately, there is a lot of really bad advice in this thread about IT and running old "unsupported" versions of software while being connected to the internet, but I want to focus on the absolutely worst advice provided:
Do NOT follow that advice! Software is not primarily written to defend against any and all security vulnerabilities, but to assist you in completing a task and give you a good user experience. Hackers are permanently, in ever evolving ways, trying to find vulnerabilities in software and exploit them, often in ways that no one who originally coded the software could have even imagined. This has nothing to do with "badly written". Microsoft and other software developers are constantly addressing those vulnerabilities with security patches (literally, it is an arms race). If you do tell your system not to install security patches, you are exposing yourself and your system to breaches, including data loss and data (including identity) theft. Any serious IT professional will tell you to keep your software updated with the latest patches.
Now whether or not you want to install Windows 11 over Windows 10 is a matter of personal preference. Both Operating Systems receive regular security updates to address discovered and potential security vulnerabilities, so take your pick. But whatever you pick, let it install (security) updates. And if you do keep a computer around that runs an unsupported Operating System like Win95, do not connect it to the internet. That is just invitation to get breached.
Maybe I missed it, but what version of Windows 11?
I run Windows 11 Home build 22H2 on my HP Laptop, and it runs my LokProgrammer just fine. It was literally plug and play after downloading the newest software.
Now, if it was a PR4...........
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
ricktrains4824 Now, if it was a PR4...........