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How do I troubleshoot a Walthers 130' turntable?

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  • Member since
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  • From: Frankfort, Indiana
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Posted by Morpar on Friday, March 31, 2023 6:10 PM

So as an update to this issue I got a voicemail from one of the tech support guys at Walthers this morning (why my phone didn't ring I have no clue) and he suggested checking for the anything blocking either the infrared emitter on the bridge or the receiver on the pit wall. I went ahead and took the bridge out of the box and looked at both for the however many-eth time and found nothing blocking either. However, for some reason I poked my finger on to the black and white wires sending power to the IR emitter and the black wire came loose! I didn't tear in any further (warranty concerns) to see if there is a connector or a bad solder joint, but no matter what I think the main issue has been found. I sent an email to the tech support guy explaining the problem and asking how to proceed. 

Good Luck, Morpar

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, March 12, 2023 12:55 PM

The bridge simply lifts up and straight out of the center pivot hole in the turntable.

Rich

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Posted by gregc on Sunday, March 12, 2023 12:03 PM

Morpar
I don't want to dig too deeply into the bridge in case Walthers wants me to send it back for replacement at this point.

the bridge is meant to come off

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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Posted by Morpar on Sunday, March 12, 2023 11:59 AM

There isn't a second turntable bridge I just have a second controller to operate the turntable. I don't want to dig too deeply into the bridge in case Walthers wants me to send it back for replacement at this point. I looked at taking the motor cover off when I was cleaning and lubing the other day and the slotted wheel for the pulse generator is right over one of the cover screws. I know from experience in the industrial sector getting those out of alignment is a huge pain, but if I break it now it would be on my dime! I will wait a little more until I hear back from Walthers. I agree, the signal is basically getting lost somewhere since I am sending a request for a signal when trying to find home position and never getting it, just not sure where!

Good Luck, Morpar

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Posted by gregc on Sunday, March 12, 2023 10:49 AM

my understanding is the bridge can easily be removed and inspected.   has it been inspected?

there's a comment in the instructions about adjusting the wipers.  some of the wipers may be for the detector/emitter in the bridge

Be gentle when cleaning the wipers and avoid pushing them down. They should always be slightly raised in a flat row.

If adjustment is needed, gently lift the wiper/s upward until it aligns with the others.

if the other TT bridge is the same model, can it be swapped?

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, March 12, 2023 10:15 AM

gregc
 
Since the control box has been apparently ruled out as the problem, the circuitry on the underside of the turntable becomes the primary suspect. 

not sure how you can rule out the emitter (LED), detector, connections  

isn't the detector in the bridge, along with the connections between it and the control circuit? 

I don't mean to rule out the emitter or detector connections.

I'm just suggesting that the signal is either not being sent or the circuitry on the underside of the turntable is not communicatting the signal to the bridge. For whatever the reason, the turntable is fully rotating 360 degrees without sensing the zero point (home position) and stopping.

Rich

 
 

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Posted by gregc on Sunday, March 12, 2023 9:11 AM

Since the control box has been apparently ruled out as the problem, the circuitry on the underside of the turntable becomes the primary suspect.

not sure how you can rule out the emitter (LED), detector, connections 

isn't the detector in the bridge, along with the connections between it and the control circuit?

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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Posted by Morpar on Sunday, March 12, 2023 7:38 AM

At this point I think I will have to wait until Walthers gets back with me and go from there. At least I have plenty of other things to do so the turntable isn't stopping progress! Maybe I will have the rest of the yard all wired when the turntable finally works...

Good Luck, Morpar

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, March 12, 2023 6:06 AM

gregc

are the bridges the same length? can they be swapped?

 

I doubt that the bridge is the problem, although anything seems like fair game at the moment. 
 
Since the control box has been apparently ruled out as the problem, the circuitry on the underside of the turntable becomes the primary suspect.
 
The way that the turntable is initialized is to send a signal from the zero point to the bridge. That signal is either not being sent or the circuitry on the underside of the turntable is not communicating it to the bridge.
 
Rich

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Posted by gregc on Sunday, March 12, 2023 5:42 AM

are the bridges the same length? can they be swapped?

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, March 12, 2023 4:11 AM

Hmmm, I guess that we can rule out the control box. Apparently, that home sensor or zero point or whatever Walthers calls it is not sending a signal to the circuitry on the underside of the  turntable. Either that or the circuitry on the underside of the turntable is not processing the signal correctly.

Rich

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Posted by Morpar on Saturday, March 11, 2023 7:53 PM

The Tortoise machines got finished today and while I was under the layout I swapped the cables around to try using only the north side controller. Same result as before, start looking for home position about 90 degrees CCW of the sensor and the bridge does a full rotation before the controller comes up with E1. I also turned out the basement lights and tried to see if there was any visible light from either the pit sensor or the bridge on a second try. No light, but that didn't rule anything out to me as we had some photoeye sensors at work which used infrared light. Which made them a bear to adjust I might add! I am hoping Walthers calls back next week and can guide me on how to troubleshoot the issue. I figure there are only 3 choices at this point, the sensor, the emitter, or the main board, but I'm not sure how to diagnose them. Since the input voltage is either AC or DC I presume the main board converts to whatever voltage and type for the sensor system and motor (I would guess DC) and sends it to the bridge via the contacts. Then how to check on each side to determine which component is bad? Pit side should be fairly easy, but the bridge (without the right knowledge) could be really bad if you hook up power where it doesn't belong! 

Good Luck, Morpar

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Posted by Water Level Route on Saturday, March 11, 2023 2:11 PM

richhotrain

Well, so much for a thorough cleaning. I had begun to convince myself that cleaning would solve the problem. Meanwhile, Walthers Tech Support is not being responsive.

I did some further research on the ERR1 issue, and it seems to suggest that the controller is the problem. The solution in a couple of cases was to replace the controller. The replacement controller for the 933-2859 is the 933-2320. It retails at Walthers for $49.98, but you can find it discounted for about $40.00. That may be the way to go.

Rich

 

Morpar, before you go the route of buying a replacement (even if your able to prove that it is the issue), wait until you talk to Walthers.  I was having an issue with mine where it would forget what position it was in each time I powered up the layout.  I had to send it finding the home position (which it could do) each time I turned the layout on.  Walthers said it was an issue with the board that mounts under the turntable and replaced it for free.  Maybe your issue is somehow related.

Mike

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Posted by gregc on Saturday, March 11, 2023 10:55 AM

have you visibly inspected the slot in the pit and presumably a similar slot in the bridge to see if there is anything that might block a light beam?

can you see a LED like device in the slot of the bridge? could it be knocked out of alignment?   can you see if the wires to it are properly connected?

can you see the head of an LED behind the slot in the pit?   it might not be visible is it somehow got knocked loose

 

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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Posted by Morpar on Saturday, March 11, 2023 10:44 AM

Interesting! I have a second controller on the north side of the yard. I think I will do some cable sawpping (after I get the Tortoise machines wired and working) and see if that helps. I may have to change which is the primary controller and which is the secondary, but that is all based on plugging in cables.

Good Luck, Morpar

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, March 11, 2023 8:34 AM

Well, so much for a thorough cleaning. I had begun to convince myself that cleaning would solve the problem. Meanwhile, Walthers Tech Support is not being responsive.

I did some further research on the ERR1 issue, and it seems to suggest that the controller is the problem. The solution in a couple of cases was to replace the controller. The replacement controller for the 933-2859 is the 933-2320. It retails at Walthers for $49.98, but you can find it discounted for about $40.00. That may be the way to go.

Rich

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Posted by Morpar on Saturday, March 11, 2023 6:34 AM

Yesterday morning before I started remote mounting a trio of Tortoise machines I focused on the turntable. Cleaned all of the contact points, swabbed the sensor on both the pit wall and the bridge, checked (without disassembly) that the sensors were in place and seemed connected, and even gave a drop of oil to the places indicated in the instructions on the drive (just because, not that I thought it would help the home position issue). Put the bridge back in place, turned on power, gave the command to find home position, and the bridge went around 1 full revolution (I started about 90 degrees CCW from the home position sensor on the pit wall) and gave me E1 again. I found a different number than the one I used the other day for Walthers and called them, but even though the lady who took my call was very nice and helpful I am still awaiting a phone call back from the tech support guy(s). I don't want to start laying any track around the turntable and then have to rip it out as a return, so I guess I will be working on other parts of the yard for the time being! 

Good Luck, Morpar

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, March 10, 2023 11:14 AM

Just based upon my experience with the Walthers turntable, since the OP indicates that he has handled it gently and not dropped it or otherwise mishandled it, my guess is that the parts cited in the instructions simply need to be cleaned.

Rich

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Posted by Water Level Route on Friday, March 10, 2023 5:24 AM

Morpar, one thought for you is to check the piece in the pit wall.  If I remember right it is a friction fit piece.  Maybe it's slid down enough to be problematic from handling the turntable repeatedly?  Just a thought.

Mike

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Posted by selector on Thursday, March 9, 2023 10:18 PM

Unless the newest version (DCC) is substantially different from the former (Built-up/Indexed) version that I have, there is a small 'optical eye' on the pit wall. The owner is cautioned not to make any indexed 'stops' there, on either side or over it, for an inch or so. Other than that, those tines and wiped rings do need cleaning and/or some metal polish from time-to-time.  I never did have to use the polish on mine, but I will do so when I resurrect if after 12 years shortly. Good clean contact is a must.  Keep the pit scrupulously clear of dust, grit, bits o' ground foam, sproinged track spikes, etc.

If the power supply is suitable, and the wiring all checks out with a meter, , and the wipers and ring are clean with good contact metal-to-metal, then it must be an internal fault, assuming the programming sequence is being followed correctly. A zero point must be established (and that should probably logically be the point where the bridge rails line up with the approach lead to the pit opposite the roundhouse).  From there, you manually line up the rails with each bay track and other exterior radials, and you press a button to establish each location.

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, March 9, 2023 5:48 PM

If you use alcohol to clean the parts, 70% isopropyl alcohol is sufficient, nothing stronger. Just a quick wipe with a damp cloth.

Make sure to clean the center point on the underside of the bridge.

Rich

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Posted by Morpar on Thursday, March 9, 2023 5:26 PM

I called Walthers this morning and got to leave a voicemail about my issue and I will be contacted in the next 2-3 business days. I plan to try cleaning everything with some alcohol in the morning and see if that will fix it. 

Good Luck, Morpar

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, March 9, 2023 1:32 PM

BATMAN

When I first installed mine I would get the error light and erratic performance. I cleaned the tynes and rings with alcohol and it ran fine after that. I had to clean the tynes and rings about four times in the first month as it would start running poorly again. After cleaning those first few times I never had to do it again and that was several years ago now. I put it down to the manufacturers' goo. Just a thought.

 

Agreed. Cleaning the sensitive areas would be a proper troubleshooting step.

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Posted by gregc on Thursday, March 9, 2023 1:29 PM

richhotrain
the instructions imply that the zero point uses an infrared signal to operate.

there's a slot in the turntable, an emitter in the wall and a detector on in the bridge.

the instructions indicate error "E1" indicates a sensor problem: blocked, bad pit led  or sensor.   presumably if the pit rotates 360+ deg, the controller can recognize a problem

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, March 9, 2023 1:08 PM

gregc
Water Level Route
That is a hard wired connection, not something the end user connects.
 

I cannot speak for the newer DCC turntable (933-2359), but as for the older non-DCC turntable (933-2829), the instructions imply that the zero point uses an infrared signal to operate.

Rich

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Posted by BATMAN on Thursday, March 9, 2023 12:01 PM

When I first installed mine I would get the error light and erratic performance. I cleaned the tynes and rings with alcohol and it ran fine after that. I had to clean the tynes and rings about four times in the first month as it would start running poorly again. After cleaning those first few times I never had to do it again and that was several years ago now. I put it down to the manufacturers' goo. Just a thought.

Brent

"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."

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Posted by Water Level Route on Thursday, March 9, 2023 11:31 AM

gregc

 

 
Water Level Route
That is a hard wired connection, not something the end user connects.

 

could that be at fault?

 

 

Absolutely could be, although not probably something the OP can fix.  I wonder if Walthers knows of a way to troubleshoot it.

Mike

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Posted by gregc on Thursday, March 9, 2023 9:14 AM

Water Level Route
That is a hard wired connection, not something the end user connects.

could that be at fault?

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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Posted by Water Level Route on Thursday, March 9, 2023 8:27 AM

gregc
what is "To Home Sensor" referring to in the 2859 instructions?

That is a hard wired connection, not something the end user connects.

Mike

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