Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Electrical short

3730 views
22 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    December 2009
  • 159 posts
Electrical short
Posted by mkepler954 on Tuesday, February 28, 2023 8:21 PM

Should there be electrical continuity between rail?  I tore down my old layout and moved it to another building. The engines worked fine and then suddenly stopped.  No lights, no sound, no nothing.  I checked for a short and there was continuity between the rails.  Is this normal or did I screw-up when rewiring from the main buss to the rails? 

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, February 28, 2023 10:00 PM

Every section of track has continuity from one end of each rail to the other end of the rail.

But continuity does not necessarily extend from one section of track to another unless the rails are soldered or touching each other or connected by rail joiners.

The surest way to establish continuity across the entire layout is to add a pair of feeders to every section of track. Just be sure not to cross wire any feeders.

Rich

Alton Junction

Moderator
  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Northeast OH
  • 17,249 posts
Posted by tstage on Tuesday, February 28, 2023 10:18 PM

If there is continuity between the left rail and the right rail on a section of track then - yes - you indeed have yourself a short.

Tom

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
  • 18,255 posts
Posted by SeeYou190 on Tuesday, February 28, 2023 10:52 PM

Disconnect your power supply and remove all equipment from the rails before making this check. Any track powered accessories also must be disconnected. If you are using power routing turnouts, the position of the points can cause continuity and not be a problem.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

  • Member since
    March 2011
  • 1,950 posts
Posted by NVSRR on Wednesday, March 1, 2023 10:55 AM

What Kevin said.    Could also be one of the turnouts got damaged in the move or disloge in the move And now shorts

Check the turnouts closely

shane

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

  • Member since
    December 2015
  • From: Shenandoah Valley
  • 9,094 posts
Posted by BigDaddy on Wednesday, March 1, 2023 5:21 PM

mkepler954
The engines worked fine and then suddenly stopped. No lights, no sound, no nothing.

This is ambiguous.  Did they work fine on the new layout, once or does this refer to the old layout.

[quote user]did I screw-up when rewiring from the main buss to the rails? [/quote]

Possibly, but I'm having a hard time visualizing this.  When I moved my layout, the buss stayed connected to each module.  It was disconnected from the Powercab.  Each black wire in a module is connected to the black buss wire in the next module.  As is the white wire. 

 

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

  • Member since
    December 2009
  • 159 posts
Posted by mkepler954 on Wednesday, March 1, 2023 9:21 PM

The trains worked fine for several weeks while I was still doing the rebuild.  The old layout had to be sawed to lessen the weight and to fit thru the door of the new room.  Consequently, I had to cut many of the buss to track wires.  I'm going to disconnect every wire from the main buss not connected to the rails. Hopefully, that will fix it. 

  • Member since
    March 2011
  • 1,950 posts
Posted by NVSRR on Thursday, March 2, 2023 8:38 AM

If things were working during rebuild then stopped, I would only undo the wiring back to that point and see if it works again.    if it does, then add one small connection ata time til it stops working again.   That would point to somewhere around that last connection is the problem.  No need to undo everything unless a new wiring plan will be implemented.     when I moved mine, I did the reconnection little by little   I have my track in the visible areas hand laid.   So I was also expecting hidden gremlins to appear in those turnouts.    They appeared in the ladder tracks of the yard. 
shane

 

shane

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • 8,877 posts
Posted by maxman on Thursday, March 2, 2023 12:08 PM

Before doing anything else take a good look around and make sure you haven't left a tool across the tracks someplace.

  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: Canada, eh?
  • 13,375 posts
Posted by doctorwayne on Thursday, March 2, 2023 10:55 PM

Well, the best advice that I can give, is to make sure that you don't wear your electric shorts if it's raining outdoors.

Wayne

  • Member since
    March 2011
  • 1,950 posts
Posted by NVSRR on Friday, March 3, 2023 6:08 AM

doctorwayne

Well, the best advice that I can give, is to make sure that you don't wear your electric shorts if it's raining outdoors.

 

 


Wayne

 

 

well now.  That would be shocking.  Maybe even enlightening.   The. Again,he might be the type that gets a charge out of that

 

shane

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

Moderator
  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Northeast OH
  • 17,249 posts
Posted by tstage on Friday, March 3, 2023 6:19 AM

C'mon, Shane.  Lighten up...Smile, Wink & Grin

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

  • Member since
    September 2002
  • 7,486 posts
Posted by ndbprr on Friday, March 3, 2023 1:36 PM

i would disconnect the power source and check the resistance between the rails . it should be infinite unless there is a short. blocks help yu determine where.

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Louisville
  • 588 posts
Posted by dbduck on Saturday, March 4, 2023 12:28 AM

did you recently add rolling stock that could possibly have a shorted axle or an axle installed backwards in a metal truck?

There was an issue at one of the clubs that I participate with that all of the sudden had a shorting issue. A few of the fellows were troubleshooting not able to find the problem I asked has anything changed in the last day or two and one of the fellows said yes he had added some cars in a siding

We removed those cars and found that one of those cars had metal trucks with one axle reversed in one of the trucks.

In all of the years that I have been installing intermountain metal wheel sets, I've come across maybe three axles that have been shorted from wheel to wheel in about 400+ axles

  • Member since
    September 2014
  • From: 10,430’ (3,179 m)
  • 2,311 posts
Posted by jjdamnit on Saturday, March 4, 2023 2:08 PM

Hello All,

dbduck
There was an issue at one of the clubs that I participate with that all of the sudden had a shorting issue. A few of the fellows were troubleshooting not able to find the problem I asked has anything changed in the last day or two and one of the fellows said yes he had added some cars in a siding(.)
(D)id you recently add rolling stock that could possibly have a shorted axle or an axle installed backwards in a metal truck?

I added a Märklin flatcar to my DCC layout, unknowing that the car's axles are not insulated for A/C running. I swapped out the wheelsets for insulated Intermountain metal wheels, problem solved! (I do know Trix is the two (2) rail, DCC-friendly, version of Märklin, but this particular car was not available in the Trix line.)

dbduck
In all of the years that I have been installing intermountain metal wheel sets, I've come across maybe three axles that have been shorted from wheel to wheel in about 400+ axles.

Out of over 200 Intermountain wheelsets I've only encountered one (1) that the insulation failed causing a short.

I'm not saying it can't happen but it's worth checking out with a multi-meter or continuity tester (beeper).

Hope this helps.

"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"

  • Member since
    December 2009
  • 159 posts
Posted by mkepler954 on Saturday, March 4, 2023 9:18 PM

Any more BRIGHT ideas guys??? 

  • Member since
    December 2009
  • 159 posts
Posted by mkepler954 on Saturday, March 4, 2023 9:27 PM

I found the short after disconecting EVERY wire going to the track.  Must have been well over 100!  One wire was the culpret.  Now to reattach them all.  My back is killing me!

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Louisville
  • 588 posts
Posted by dbduck on Saturday, March 4, 2023 9:38 PM

Just to make sure it doesn't happen again I would connect 5 to 10 wires check for a short if it's clear 5 to 10 more check again repeat until all wires are connected and no short exist

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, March 5, 2023 3:41 AM

Congratulations on finding and fixing the short. And, thanks for reporting back to us. That is always appreciated.

Color coding wire is the best way to avoid, or at least solve, this type of wiring problem. A different color wire (e.g., red and blue) should be used for the pair of bus wires, and those two same colors should be used for the feeders. That practice will come close to eliminating most wiring shorts in the process of layout building.

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
  • 18,255 posts
Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, March 5, 2023 8:19 AM

mkepler954
One wire was the culpret.

That is all it takes, just one, and the whole layout shuts down.

At least it was something that could be found.

Congratulations in the successful effort.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

  • Member since
    December 2009
  • 159 posts
Posted by mkepler954 on Sunday, March 5, 2023 9:09 PM

dbduck-that's exactly what I've been doing.  Don't want to screw up again!

  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
  • 16,367 posts
Posted by gmpullman on Sunday, March 5, 2023 9:43 PM

richhotrain
Color coding wire is the best way to avoid, or at least solve, this type of wiring problem.

In addition to making sure the N stays N and the S stays S (or however you want to designate each, i.e. Rail A: rail B:) I recall a suggestion once that involved using a surplus piece of rolling stock, flat car or gondola come to mind, and paint one side of this car in a distinctive color and the other side a different color. Matching the wire colors probably would make even more sense.

This car never leaves the rails during wiring of the layout. You can move it around the layout and be sure the proper orientation to each rail is always correct. I sure could have used this handy trick a time or two.

Regards, Ed

  • Member since
    April 2004
  • From: Ontario Canada
  • 3,574 posts
Posted by Mark R. on Monday, March 6, 2023 11:06 AM

mkepler954

I found the short after disconecting EVERY wire going to the track.  Must have been well over 100!  One wire was the culpret.  Now to reattach them all.  My back is killing me!

 

You didn't disconnect them all and then test did you ? Or is your luck like mine ? .... it's always the last wire ? Smile, Wink & Grin

Mark.

¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!