I like how TCS handles the BEMF. It can be programmed to shut off at a speed step of your choice. I have had no issues with the BEMF on my Loksound V5 decoders running in consists. The Select I have are in steam switchers and never get consisted. The old version 3.5 is another story. If memory serves, the GP9s that have them are turned off. The Tsunami decoders I have have not been a problem.
Pete.
Sometimes, BEMF causes more problems than it solves. If you run engines in consists a lot, it may work better to just turn BEMF off - or at least set it very low.
Let's say you have two engines together on the head of a train and the lead engine is slightly faster than the second engine. The slower rear engine senses the faster engine 'tugging' it and perceives it as meaning it's going downhill, so cuts power to the motor a little. The faster lead engine senses the trailing engine slowing down, and perceives it as going uphill, so applies more power. This causes the second engine to think it's going downhill even faster, and to cut more power. It can be a vicious circle.
Final report.
Checked CV 19 for both locos in the consist and both were 0 after clearing the consist. So that was not an issue.
Played with the BEMF variables ( Mark Gurries web page has excellent info and has info from other sites https://sites.google.com/site/markgurries/dcc-welcome-page/dcc-decoders/decoder-motor-tuning/soundtraxx ). Got both locos running better and speed matched much better. Hadn't run this consist in some time and not sure why the speed matching was off.
One thing I'm not sure about CV213 Motor Control Sample Period was equal to CV214 Motor Control Aperture Time. I set 213 lower than 214 among other BEMF tuning changes. Not sure what difference this made but things are working better now. I suspected some of the problems were with BEMF tuning and speed matching issues.
Bottom line is everything seems ok now. Thanks to all for your help and comments.
Hello All,
wrench567If they are A and B or even always run together assigned them the same address...I have an A-B-B-A set of Alco PAs that are basically married all addressed to 9055 leading loco number.
This is referred to as "Basic" consisting.
When all units in the consist have the same address, ALL of them will respond to the same light and sound function commands.
There are advantages to how NCE handles "Advanced" consisting- -some are specific to this DCC system.
One- -in particular- -is when building an "Advanced" consist with the NCE system the consist can use both an "Alias" address; from 1-127, or the address of the "Lead" locomotive assigned to the consist- -no matter the address of the other units in the consist.
If no "Alias" address is specified the system chooses the first number available, descending from 127.
When building an "Advanced" consist with the NCE system it prompts you to enter the lead locomotive address and, the address of the rear locomotive, along with the direction the locos will travel relative to each other.
More locomotives can be added to the consist, but only one can be assigned to be the lead unit and one the rear unit.
You don't have to remember the "Alias" consist address.
The consist can be called up by the lead locomotives address.
You might say, "OK...but "Basic" consisting does that too."
Well...Yes and No...
Using "Advanced" consisting each locomotives functions can be set to respond individually.
For example- -with "Basic" consisting the lights in all the locomotives respond to F0.
With "Advanced" consisting you can set the functions so that only the front light of the lead locomotive comes on when moving forward, all other locomotives are "dark."
Then, when moving in reverse, only the rearward-facing light of the rear locomotive is on.
Other functions like engine and braking sounds can be set so all locomotives respond when triggered.
While the bell and whistle sounds only come from the lead locomotive, depending on the direction of travel.
Other advantages to the NCE system of "Advance" consisting are:
I have a three (3) unit A-B-A consist of GP30s that work a 3% grade to a siding where cars have to be shoved over the unloading platform.
When on the mainline they run as an A-B-A coal drag.
Before going up the grade the rear A unit drops off.
The A-B consist is switched to the rear of the train to act as pushers, and the single A unit takes the head end and is added back to the consist.
Having the ability to "drop" the rear A unit to work the upper siding, while still allowing the A-B unit to shove the cars, under separate control is key.
When the single A unit is shuttling the empties down the spiral trestle (helix) the A-B consist is backing down the grade to the main line.
Then the single A unit rejoins the consist, as the rear unit, of the A-B-A consist with empties in tow.
Using the "Advanced" consisting of the NCE system fits my operational needs.
Please understand, I am not saying that the "Basic" method of consisting is right or wrong.
I am simply trying to point out how NCE handles "Advanced" consisting and some of the advantages of using this method versus other methods of consisting.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
markie97 Quick update. I was able to reset 1151(with sound) and after running it back and forth for awhile it seems to run ok. Took 1150(without sound) apart and saw that the 8 pin plugin decoder was dislodged somewhat. Reinserted it fully and it too seems tobe ok. After rechecking the speed matching I will try consisting them again. But that is later today, Thank you for all your suggestions.
Quick update. I was able to reset 1151(with sound) and after running it back and forth for awhile it seems to run ok. Took 1150(without sound) apart and saw that the 8 pin plugin decoder was dislodged somewhat. Reinserted it fully and it too seems tobe ok. After rechecking the speed matching I will try consisting them again. But that is later today,
Thank you for all your suggestions.
Nice. Glad they are running again. If they are A and B or even always run together assigned them the same address. I do this with mine. I have an A-B-B-A set of Alco PAs that are basically married all addressed to 9055 leading loco number.
richhotrain Good idea. Incidentally, in my experience, it's not NCE's fault that some decoders fail to clear CV19 when a consist is killed, it is the decoder's fault.
Good idea. Incidentally, in my experience, it's not NCE's fault that some decoders fail to clear CV19 when a consist is killed, it is the decoder's fault.
My experience has been that the most common cause of problems that occur when killing a CV19-assisted consist have to do with one or more of the locomotives being unable to get the de-consisting command.
This usually happens when one or more of the locomotives are on a section of track that has had its power shut off or one of more of the locomotives have been removed from the layout altogether.
You can also have de-consisting problems if one or more of the locomotives in the consist is simply sitting on dirty track. I recall one model railroad where there was so much delicate detail in the engine terminal that people were reluctant to get in there with a track-cleaning bar until it was pointed out that the track was so dirty that it was causing consisting problems.
-Fritz Milhaupt, Publications Editor, Pere Marquette Historical Society, Inc.http://www.pmhistsoc.org
The intermittent starts and stops still sounds like a power issue. Do other locomotives run alright? The non sound not responding seems like an address is not programmed. Use a separate program track and reset the decoder. Then try address 3. Not 0003. NCE recognize that as a long address.
The sound equipped loco might have a bad connection to the motor or the trucks. If it stops and the headlight is still on then I suspect a motor connection.
I had a similar problem with Digitrax non-sound decoders; DH126 & DH166 series, and my NCE DCC system when using Advanced Consisting.
The locomotives in question would run at "normal" speed when responding to their individual addresses, CV19=VØ.
When put in a consist, or assigned to a consist and run with the consist "alias" address they would run considerably slower, but they did run.
I contacted Digitrax and was told that this was a common occurrence with their decoders due to how NCE handles Advance Consisting.
Digitrax recommended setting CV57=V102.
I asked them if this change in CV57 would affect the running of the locomotives when not consisted?
They said there would be no change in regular running when not in a consist.
I made the CV changes to all the decoders in question and they ran at their "normal" speed when consisted, and had no effect when operated under their individual addresses.
Your situation is different but sounds like there might be similarities.
I would contact the decoder manufacturers and see if there is a similar issue when using Advance Consisting with NCE.
You said when you reset them to 03 they each ran OK. I'd suggest setting one engine to 04 and the other 03, then set them up in a consist. If they work OK with those numbers, then it's some issue specific to the 1150 and 1151 addresses like a consist issue.
Is it possible 1150 and 1151 were at some point part of a consist with a different third engine as the lead engine? That would explain some of what you're experiencing.
maxman Someone above asked what control system you are using. You said you cleared the consist. If your system on is NCE, I remember reading somewhere that using the clear consist function with NCE only works reliably with NCE decoders. Suggest that you access CV19 manually and set to zero.
Someone above asked what control system you are using. You said you cleared the consist. If your system on is NCE, I remember reading somewhere that using the clear consist function with NCE only works reliably with NCE decoders. Suggest that you access CV19 manually and set to zero.
Rich
Alton Junction
Definitely Tsunami using an NCE Power Pro System. Wheels and track are clean. Engines ran well before consisting.
Wondering if it has something to do with the back EMF feature? Will try CV19 to 0 in the morning.
Clean track and wheels first. Then check for dead spots in the track. If you're relying on joiners for connection, they have a tendency to lose connection.
Let us know if the problem persists.
markie97Have a consist of two Bowser AS616's. One with a Tsunami Bowser Sound Decoder and the other with a Soundtraxx mobile decoder(no sound).
According to Bowser'website, the sound-equipped AS-616 came with a Loksound Select decoder, not a Tsunami. Do you have an earlier version that was different?
(Of course this is not necessarily relevant to your issue, but it could be relevant later.)
Someone above asked what control system you are using. You said you cleared the consist. If your system is NCE, I remember reading somewhere that using the clear consist function with NCE only works reliably with NCE decoders. Suggest that you access CV19 manually and set to zero.
Do they run individually, not in the consist?
What DCC system are you using?
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Have a consist of two Bowser AS616's. One with a Tsunami Bowser Sound Decoder and the other with a Soundtraxx mobile decoder(no sound). They ran fine together in the past. I hadn't run them in awhile and when I did 1151(with sound) would intermittently stop/start. I cleared the consist and messed with it to a point along with the other unit 1150(no sound) and neither one would run. Programmed CV8 to 8 for each and they would run ok on address 3. Reprogrammed to the cab numbers and they both ran ok. Reformed the consist and same problems as initially experienced. Cleared the consist and neither would run, Tried programming CV8 to 8. The sound unit runs on address 3 but seems to intermittently lose power. The non sound unit is lifeless.
Any suggestions?