DCC for a small layout (44x96, 4 engine max)

[DonRicardo]

I use Caboose manual switch throws, with Atlas switches on a n scale layout. Basically a folded over dogbone type of layout, no wyes, 15 switches and a crossover.

The track has 5 electrically isolated sectors to aid in the event of any needed trouble shooting.. I would like to be able to run at least two locos at the same time, with a switcher working a small yard., with no block wiring.

Any suggestions as to a decent DCC system, minimum would be two way lighting, perhaps with sound. This layout would not need the same system as a largeer one. (K.I.S.S....Keep It Simple, Stupid)

[jjdamnit]

Hello All,

DonRicardo

...minimum would be two way lighting, perhaps with sound.

I'm not sure what you mean by "...two-way lighting"?

Sound is a function of the decoder and not the DCC system.

DonRicardo

The track has 5 electrically isolated sectors...

Are you planning on using some form of circuit protection for these sectors?

A "Descent" DCC system will allow for future expansion, when and if you want.

I prefer NCE because of the ergonimics of the throttle wheel and the ease of Advanced consisting.

Some prefer Digitrax because of the LOCO Net functions and dual control knobs on the throttle.

Digitrax also offers the Zephyr Express as a "starter" system.

Hope this helps.

[DonRicardo]

jjdamnit

Hello All,

 

 

DonRicardo

...minimum would be two way lighting, perhaps with sound.

 

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "...two-way lighting"?

Sound is a function of the decoder and not the DCC system.

 

 

DonRicardo

The track has 5 electrically isolated sectors...

 

 

Are you planning on using some form of circuit protection for these sectors?

A "Descent" DCC system will allow for future expansion, when and if you want.

I prefer NCE because of the ergonimics of the throttle wheel and the ease of Advanced consisting.

Some prefer Digitrax because of the LOCO Net functions and dual control knobs on the throttle. They also offer the Zephyr Express as a "starter" system.

Hope this helps.

 Lighting in forward and also reverse, and yes, circuit protection for each operating segment.

[gregc]

DonRicardo

 Lighting in forward and also reverse, and yes, circuit protection for each operating segment.

what do you mean circuit protection?   don't know of any boosters or standalone units (e.g. PowerCab) that don't shut down if there's a short and therefore not sure a small layout needs a circuit breaker.

[jjdamnit]

Hello All,

gregc

(W)hat do you mean circuit protection? don't know of any boosters or standalone units (e.g. PowerCab) that don't shut down if there's a short and therefore not sure a small layout needs a circuit breaker.

No matter the physical size of the pike, proper electrical protection should be considered...

EB1 is not resetting

short circuit breakers

NCE Power Cab Circuit Breaker Malfunctioning?

DonRicardo

The track has 5 electrically isolated sectors...with no block wiring.

On my 4'x8' DCC pike I have five (5) power districts including a wye (reversing section).

Each protected by a circuit breaker: Four (4) NCE EB1s & an AR10 with built-in circuit protection for the wye.

Relying on the overload (short) protection on the booster is not fail-safe.

Adding "Block Protection" with circuit breakers is never a bad idea.

Since the OP already divided the pike into power districts "sectors" why not protect them- -no matter the size of the pike?

Hope this helps.

[BroadwayLion]

44x96.... Oh! You mean inches. OK that makes it easier!

On root of LION I habe only one power district to go with 15 scale miles of track.

Power comes from a regulated 12A power supply (I run 10 trains at once)

Have fuses etc, but before the fuse there is a 12 volt automobile tail light (red lens and all) any shotr turns the light on and I can play around wqith the equipment etc until the light goes out.

I cannot use DCC etc because with a fleet of ten trains to run, well, I do not have ten heads. I cannot run two trains without short circuting my brain. Besides the big furry paws of a LION cannot manage those little knobs on the control panel.

Railroad of LION is 100% automated. Trains stop and start as they are required, and no damn computer at all. The layout is one big analog computer. The tracks run the train, together with a wall of relays. The train cannot start if it is facing a red signal.

LIONS like to keep things simple, yes.

[gregc]

jjdamnit

Since the OP already divided the pike into power districts- -"sectors"-why not protect them, no matter the size of the pike?

protect them from what?

power districts are typically created to allow other parts of the layout to run if theres a short in one power district.   how necessary is this on a small layout?d

would 4 locos would require more than 2A (i measured 1.3A with a 5 loco consist)?  but if you have a 5A system, i can see using circuit breaker to limit the short to 2A

at what cost, 5x $30+?  auto bulbs are far cheaper.  one could limit current to ~2A, but multiple bulbs can inexpensively isolate the "sectors" to help easily locate a short.   i used a ~1A bulb with my PowerCab because it recovered faster

and as i said, systems will shut down at their rated current to protect themselves.

[OldEngineman]

In the USA, nearly everyone is going to recommend either Digitrax or NCE.

But be aware there are other alternatives as well, particularly if you would like wireless (wifi) control and are comfortable using a graphical control interface (running on an iPhone or Android phone, or on an Android tablet or iPad).

I'm using both the Roco z21 "start" (white box) system, and also have the Digikeijs DR5000 universal hardware controller.

Both of these work beautifully with the Roco z21 control app, which is FREE. You can download it and run it in demo mode to see what it's like. Go to either the app store or google play and search for "roco z21". The app you want has a red engine on a blue background. Of course you can't run trains without the hardware, but you can "go through the motions" in demo mode to get an idea of what it can do.

The DR5000 can work with other manufacturer's handhelds, as well. Hence the "universal" in the controller. It's also priced very attractively (since you are "bringing your own control surface", so to speak).

[hornblower]

While their decoders were certainly unloved, the MRC Prodigy Advance and Advance2 DCC systems are rock solid, easily expandable and their WiFi module allows up to eight smart devices to be used to run trains.  No, these systems do not have all the bells and whistles of the NCE and Digitrax systems but they are less expensive, dead nuts reliable and easy to use.  The throttle bus does not need power so you can make your own using Cat5 or 6 components.  I am currently helping a friend build a 4'x8' N scale layout of the Ventura County Railroad in California.  My friend found a used MRC Prodigy Advance2 starter system on E-Bay.  I built a Cat5 based throttle bus with two RJ45 plug-in ports per side of the layout.  The layout is a single power block and relies only on the command station circuit breaker.  We also connected the MRC WiFi module for smart throttle use.  All work great!  The layout uses Peco turnouts operated manually.

I use the older MRC Prodigy Advance (not squared) system to run my 10' by 19' double decked HO scale layout.  It has hosted several operating sessions running as many as four trains pulled by two powered locos (some with sound) simultaneously, all in a single power block and the original booster.  I did have to add an NCE EB1 breaker between the track and the command station but only because shorts would trip the command station breaker which would in turn drop power to the WiFi module I have installed.  This would dump all the smart throttles in use forcing everyone to reconnect to the WiFi module AND reacquire their train after a short was cleared.  The EB1 breaker protects the track from shorts while leaving the command station (and WiFi module) powered up, eliminating any WiFi drop-outs. 

[DonRicardo]

gregc

 I once had an around the room layout in HO, with Prodigy DCC, and the circuit protector did fail, and I have used sepearte blocks with circuit protectors ever since.

 

jjdamnit

Since the OP already divided the pike into power districts- -"sectors"-why not protect them, no matter the size of the pike?

 

 

protect them from what?

power districts are typically created to allow other parts of the layout to run if theres a short in one power district.   how necessary is this on a small layout?d

would 4 locos would require more than 2A (i measured 1.3A with a 5 loco consist)?  but if you have a 5A system, i can see using circuit breaker to limit the short to 2A

at what cost, 5x $30+?  auto bulbs are far cheaper.  one could limit current to ~2A, but multiple bulbs can inexpensively isolate the "sectors" to help easily locate a short.   i used a ~1A bulb with my PowerCab because it recovered faster

and as i said, systems will shut down at their rated current to protect themselves.

 

[gregc]

DonRicardo

I once had an around the room layout in HO, with Prodigy DCC, and the circuit protector did fail, and I have used sepearte blocks with circuit protectors ever since.

are you sure you exceeded the current rating of the Prodigy DCC?

since you have some skepticism about "circuit protectors", why do you trust the one you do use?

why do you need more than one circuit breaker if you don't trust the booster to shut down?

 

[wjstix]

I use CVP Products "Easy DCC" system. That might be a good choice for your smaller-sized layout. The main control station comes with two throttles built-in, so two trains can be controlled without needing to add additional throttles. Of course you can add plug-in or radio handheld throttles later if you wish, but you might not need them on a small layout.

http://www.cvpusa.com/easydcc_system.php

Keep in mind in DCC you can use the throttle to start a train running (like on a continous loop mainline) and then once it's running reset the throttle to a different locomotive like to do switching with in the yard. The first train will keep running until you call up the engine or consist's ID again and stop it. So to run two trains and do switching you don't necessarily need three throttles.

[DonRicardo]

Went with NCE, a nice USA company!

[BigDaddy]

Not a bad choice

Can I edit this post with being sent to Forbidden 503?

Actually I cannot.  Search Youtube for DG Modelworks for circuit breaker.  He left his trains running unattended.  After the derailment, the Power Cab and Booster, shut down then repeatedly restarted.  

 

[MisterBeasley]

If you have any interest in a local club, consider which DCC system they use.  Throttles are generally NOT interchangeable between manufacturers.  It's a good idea to find a throttle you like.  You will probably be happy with most reputable DCC systems, so don't worry about that.

I have 100 square feet of layout, with a lot of track.  Like the Lion, i also run subways, but mine are only a small loop with the rest of the layout up above.  My system is a Lenz, kind of old now but it works well.  It has 5 amps, which is plenty for me.  It's divided into four breaker segments and two reversers.  I have a couple of CVP radio throttles, which work well.

[DonRicardo]

I am building a small layout, about 44x88 to start, with expansion in mind later. I took your suggestion to go with 2 inch foam, your layout is awesome.

[WilmJunc]

Maybe my system is way too simplified, but I have a 12' x 6' HO layout with about 24 switches and I have an old 16 year-old Digitrax Zephyr on a single power circuit. I do have about a 14 gauge electrical bus running around underneath the entire layout with many power drops from the track. I'll run six locomotives at a time without any problems.  I have bought several additional throttles to connect to the Loconet system.  Everything seems to run fine.

[DonRicardo]

I use caboose manual throws up front for switches, and tortise shell throws in the back. Back in the day, the trains  (Westerm Maryland) would stop and throw the switches themselves unless a locking tower was handy, but where we were, they had no locking towers.

To turn around, they used runarounds in our neck of the woods, no wyes. On a model RR that transltes to simplified wiring.

My bus wires are black and white, 14 ga, when we wired our nonelectrified farm house(built in 1842), black was hot and common was white, so I went with what I was used to. (We bought the farm in 1947 after Dad got out of the Navy, and got our electrics in 1953, when we also saw our first tv, even got a radio! We had to buy every pole coming down our road....gravel, and lots of Mud in the Spring and dust in the summer, we called it the "clumsy road". After the poles were paid

for, the power compamy strung the wires, first thing we did was dump the old 2-hole outhouse and plumbed in the bthroom!

My cousin gave me my first electric train set at that time, an American flyer Zephyr

[DonRicardo]

I went with NCE, since my layout is small (44x96), and I now have 6 locos, I went with the Prodigy starter set. It is made in the USA, seems to be easily expandable if I ever get my "train room" back and you are right, the throttle is a nice fit.

I have always had circuit protection on my blocks, a habit from the DC days, and on a long run, isolated and wired blocks seem to prevent the power units from slowing down at the end of a long run, due to voltage drop.

The NCE was a nice Christmas present.

I have found that if I wish to work on my layout, or run the trains, the best bet is to pester the little lady until she says, " Go play with your trains".

[knewsom]

hornblower

I use the older MRC Prodigy Advance (not squared) system to run my 10' by 19' double decked HO scale layout.  It has hosted several operating sessions running as many as four trains pulled by two powered locos (some with sound) simultaneously, all in a single power block and the original booster.  I did have to add an NCE EB1 breaker between the track and the command station but only because shorts would trip the command station breaker which would in turn drop power to the WiFi module I have installed.  

Hornblower, I am just getting back to model railroading after a 12 year break and a couple of moves.  I bought the original Prodigy Advance many years ago, and would like to convert it to wireless.  I wanted to connect it to JMRI running on a Raspberry Pi, but have found it very difficult to find an MRC 0001516 cable to connect it.  To convert it to wireless do you just need the MRC 0001530?  Can that talk to JMRI or only the WiThrottle controllers for iPhones?  

 

Thank you for any assistance you can provide as it has been a while for me.

 

[tstage]

DonRicardo

I went with NCE, since my layout is small (44x96), and I now have 6 locos, I went with the Prodigy starter set. It is made in the USA, seems to be easily expandable if I ever get my "train room" back and you are right, the throttle is a nice fit.

Don,

I presume you mean MRC?  MRC makes the Prodigy series DCC systems; NCE makes the PH-Pro, Power Cab, and Twin systems.

Also, if you place your response to a quote AFTER the 2nd bracketed quote (e.g. [/quote]), your response will display separately from the gray box of the quote.

FWIW,

Tom

[FlightRisk]

https://dcc-ex.com/

Do it yourself for $50, 24/7 support, innovative features like EX-RAIL to control the entire layout and handle animations and automations. Lots of people using it this year for Christmas layouts and trolleys where the train controls itself and switches turnouts, lights, sounds, etc. :)

Fred

DCC-EX

 

[DonRicardo]

tstage

 NCE, I was checking the Prodigy so entered that by mistake.

 

 

DonRicardo

I went with NCE, since my layout is small (44x96), and I now have 6 locos, I went with the Prodigy starter set. It is made in the USA, seems to be easily expandable if I ever get my "train room" back and you are right, the throttle is a nice fit.

 

 

Don,

I presume you mean MRC?  MRC makes the Prodigy series DCC systems; NCE makes the PH-Pro, Power Cab, and Twin systems.

Also, if you place your response to a quote AFTER the 2nd bracketed quote (e.g.

), your response will display separately from the gray box of the quote.

FWIW,

Tom

 

[/quote]