I just uograded my NCE Power Cab system to the DCC Concepts power supply and bus susyem. Have a full five amps at 18vac on the rail. Thus far no problems with locomotives or decoder issues. Anyone else using this system?
Don't know anything about it but I have a question. Is the 5 amps going through the Power Cab and flat cable?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Pete.
The Power Cab itself can handle a lot of current.
The limitation is the cable. That is the reason NCE supplies a 3A power supply.
The amount of current on the track is determined by power needs of the locomotives, not the power supply.
A) You cannot run 3 Amps continuously for the Power Cab. It will overheat with the Power Cab shell deforming due to the high heat build up.
and despite my PowerCab supply saying it's rates at 1.3A, the PowerCab reported 2+ A with a dynamic load connected
it's not obvious to me what mechanism the PowerCab uses to shutdown
wrench567Is the 5 amps going through the Power Cab and flat cable?
182
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
I just can't see those tiny wires and the little contacts in the Power Cab cable capable of handling a five amp current. I've seen shorts melt solder from feeders without a breaker tripping.. I wouldn't run five amps through my Power Cab. At least the NCE smart booster removes the circuit protection away from the Power Cab and keeps it in the booster with more robust connections. I have had my Power Cab since they were introduced. I have had to readjust the pins a few times in the Telco connecters.
Pete
Hello All,
After reviewing the DCC Concepts web page I don't see any "advantage" over other DCC systems where the command station (signal) and booster(s) (power) are separate units.
There are two (2) components in the DCC Concepts system- -along with the user-supplied throttle of choice (signal packet generator) with an RJ12 (6-pin) output.
In this case- -NCE Power Cab; with built-in 2 amps power through a power supply.
(There was no mention of how the native 2 amp output of the Power Cab is dealt with in the Alpha Box.)
With the DCC Concepts system, the output of the Power Cab (RJ12) is connected to the "Alpha Box" (control).
The "Alpha Box" has an input port for the power "Alpha Power" supply from DCC Concepts. There are other RJ12 connectors for control bus expansion.
A wall-wart (power supply) powers the separate DCC Concepts "Alpha Power" box.
The track power- -full amperage- -emanates from the outputs of the "Alpha Box" along with the signal from the throttle (command/power).
I don't doubt the DCC Concepts system prevents damage due to electrical faults in the entire system.
For best practices, dividing up the pike into zones, protected by individual circuit breakers, should also be considered with this system.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
jjdamnitThe "Alpha Box" has an input port for the power "Alpha Power" supply from DCC Concepts. There are other RJ12 connectors for control bus expansion.
found it hard to find a clear description of Alpha product.
it is a replacement for an NCE command station/booster? the PowerCab reverts to a ProCab, just a controller?
No. The NCE Cab handles only the DCC packet information ans acts just like it does nromally. You get a full 5 amps at 18 volts on track. Nor only will your trains have more current for multiple opereation they are capable of higher speeds with the 18 volts.
The DC Conepts system removes the NEC Cab from the current path. No issues with flat cables then. It also can be used with other system such as Digitrax. They also have other products such as DDC switch controls and exoansion panels. Product is distributed from Iron Planet Hobbies.
sounds like the DCC concepts box simply takes the DCC signal from a PowerCab and runs it thru an new power source providing higher current and you actually want higher voltage.
sounds like the powerCab continues to be the command station
at least the diagram pg 14 say an optional extra cab must be set to cab address 3 which limits the # of cabs to 2
gregc...is (it) a replacement for an NCE command station/booster?
The answer is- -"Yes"!
Unlike NCE and Digitrax- -which combine the command station and booster in the same enclosure- -DCC Concepts divides the two (2) units into separate enclosures.
This relegates the OPs NCE PowerCab to only providing signal packets (throttle) and no track power.
Some form of signal packet generation (throttle) needs to be supplied by the user- -the OPs PowerCab.
According to the NCE literature; Power Pro System Reference Manual, pg. 12:
"Output voltage: Factory set to 14 volts, adjustable 9.5 to 18 volts."
KLBirdNor (SIC) only will your trains have more current for multiple operation(s) they are capable of higher speeds with the 18 volts.
As has been noted, an increase in amperage does allow the powering of more motive power, but higher amperage can be provided by other manufacturers.
NCE offers a single 10 Amp booster!
Running some DCC decoders at a higher than manufacturer recommended voltage can shorten the life of the decoder and void the warranty.
Yes, they run "faster" but burn out quicker!
In regards to wireless/radio cab operations, again this falls on the user to provide this communication method to the "Alpha Box" command station.
As an example, I could eschew the NCE PowerPro command station/booster in favor of the DCC Concepts separate command station and booster.
If I want to retain the wireless capability from the NCE system, as the user I still have to provide the NCE ProCab R along with the antenna (RB02) either directly connected to the "Alpha Box" or through an NCE UTP to the "Alpha Box" all "upstream" of the DCC Components.
There is mention of wireless communication but this is "downstream" of the signal generation.
Again, I don't see a great advantage of the DCC Concepts components over other manufacturers (Other than the Dynamis system).
KLBird ...Have a full five amps at 18vac on the rail. Thus far no problems with locomotives or decoder issues...
...Have a full five amps at 18vac on the rail. Thus far no problems with locomotives or decoder issues...
From what I understand, 18 volts is a tad high for HO, if that is your scale. If in N, which would make your 5 amps serious overkill in most instances, its a bit more serious than just a tad. However, I ran my HO scale Digitrax DB150 O scale inadvertently about 11 years ago for as much as two weeks and didn't notice any associated or relevant issues with my operations and decoders.
Do you really have to be in 18 volts, and if so, what is your reasoning? I'm just curious, not challenging.
selectorDo you really have to be in 18 volts, and if so, what is your reasoning?
"Inquiring minds want to know..."
KLBird...capable of higher speeds with the 18 volts.
selector KLBird ...Have a full five amps at 18vac on the rail. Thus far no problems with locomotives or decoder issues... From what I understand, 18 volts is a tad high for HO, if that is your scale. If in N, which would make your 5 amps serious overkill in most instances, its a bit more serious than just a tad. However, I ran my HO scale Digitrax DB150 O scale inadvertently about 11 years ago for as much as two weeks and didn't notice any associated or relevant issues with my operations and decoders. Do you really have to be in 18 volts, and if so, what is your reasoning? I'm just curious, not challenging.
18 volts seem a bit high in my opinion as well. On my 5 amp Power Pro system, the booster provides 9.5/18 volt adjustable output voltage range. The factory setting was 15.3 volts, and I have always left it there.
Rich
Alton Junction
jjdamnitThis relegates the OPs NCE PowerCab to only providing signal packets (throttle) and no track power.
not sure what you mean by signal packets (cabbus or DCC)
sounds like it's replacing the booster function in the PowerCab with a higher power/voltage booster. the command functionality remains in the PowerCab
doesn't sound like the DCC Concepts is comparable to the NCE SB5 Smart Booster because the SB5 serves as both the command station (the smart part) and the booster
[/quote]Yeah, the Power Cab can be unplugged and used as a walk-around throttle.
richhotrain...doesn't sound like the DCC Concepts is comparable to the NCE SB5 Smart Booster because the SB5 serves as both the command station (the smart part) and the booster
Yes, that's the point of the DCC Concepts system- -physically separate the command station from the booster.
At £149.46 ($173.00 [exchange rate calculated as of 9/17/2022]) plus shipping for the "bundle", it might or might not be cheaper than upgrading to a native NCE product- -depending on where you are in the world, and availability.
richhotrainYeah, the Power Cab can be unplugged and used as a walk-around throttle.
This does not mean that there is wireless throttle capabilities from the DCC Concepts system.
DCC systems rely on "last command" protocol. The last command packet remains in effect until a new command packet is recognized by the receiving unit.
This has nothing to do with the constant current (amperage) being supplied by the power source.
"Walk around" throttles depend on this protocol.
When the tethered throttle is unplugged from the UTP (control bus) the last command(s) sent by the throttle (command packets) received by the decoders (mobile or stationary) are "held" by the decoder until a new command packet overrides the previous "last" command.
All of this occurs "upstream" of the DCC Concepts components, on the command packet (signal) side.
With my wireless NCE Power Pro R throttle (signal packet generator) it shuts down after a preset time.
When the throttle shuts down, all the "last command packets" are still in effect- -the trains don't stop- -despite there being no updated signal (command) packets from the throttle (signal/command packet generator).
None of my DCC equipped motive power have Energy Storage Devices (ESUs) AKA "Keep Alive" units. So, the continual running of these units is dictated by the decoder and not the signal (command) packets sent by the throttle.
What is overlooked with the DCC Concepts system is the cost of the separate throttle (command packet generator) cab.
Factoring in this cost doesn't really make this a bargain as DCC Concepts doesn't offer a native throttle.
So is the point of DCC Concepts is you can have the Power Cab and get it up to 5 amps without buying the NCE base station and power supply, thus saving on those expensive NCE components.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
jjdamnit"Walk around" throttles depend on this protocol. When the tethered throttle is unplugged from the UTP (control bus) the last command(s) sent by the throttle (command packets) received by the decoders (mobile or stationary) are "held" by the decoder until a new command packet overrides the previous "last" command.
yes, the decoder operate on the last command sent by the command station
but a throttle doesn't repeatedly send a DCC speed packet to the decoder, the command station does. the throttle doesn't have to be plugged in for the command station to send a DCC packet to the loco(s) controlled by an unplugged throttle
riogrande5761 So is the point of DCC Concepts is you can have the Power Cab and get it up to 5 amps without buying the NCE base station and power supply, thus saving on those expensive NCE components.
One of the next steps up for the Power Cab is the NCE SB5. While the Power Cab can handle another throttle, the SB5 can handle more and gives you walk around capabilities. It comes with a power supply and cost just north of $200. Another way to go would be a full PH5 system that gives you another throttle, computer interface and can handle many throttles. That's north of $500.
I haven't seen any information on the Alpha box so I will not judge the pros and cons. From the comments here, it sounds like an aftermarket SB5. If cost to the consumer is considerably less than the SB5 then it's something to consider.
wrench567 Don't know anything about it but I have a question. Is the 5 amps going through the Power Cab and flat cable? Inquiring minds want to know. Pete. No The flat cable only carries the packets to the decoder so you can use a longer flat cable.Mine is 25 feet with no problem operating 4 locos.