If the loco was running well prior to all this and runs with the shell off, I believe thats what you said, when you put the shell on it acts all kinds of crazy or you get nothing? My suspicion is that there is something making contact that shouldnt once the shell goes on.
I suggest taking everything off, decoder and all, start over and this time dont add the current keeper at all for now. Wire it back up ensuring you are protecting all contact points. Use kapton tape if you have some to hold everything in place and insulate the decoder. Reprogram and put it on the track and test it. If it has stopped acting funny, great!! Put the shell back on and try again. My suspicion is the current keeper constantly holding power to the to the motor may be the reason for the erratic decoder behavior. Also, see if the decoder is set for dual mode operation, if it is, set it to digital only and try that.
1 Test the motor you have for stall current.
2 Make sure the motor connections are isolated from the frame.
3 Make sure there are no random places for shorts.
Lee
Dan.
Have you given any thoughts on the maintenance of the locomotive. Lube on the bronze bushings on the worm gear especially? It's an older unit and problems such as these will create more strain on the motor. Most of my roster has been in storage for almost a decade. Before putting them back in service they all got a good going over and re- lubrication. Quite a few of the bronze bushings were actually frozen to the worm shafts that was a surprise to find. A cleaning with a shot of WD40 and a drop of oil did the trick.
Before condemning the motor. Make sure you are not covering up the real reason for excessive motor draw. You said it worked without the shell. There must be another issue besides the motor.
Pete.
reasearchhoundAthough I will likely go ahead and try to locate a new motor for it, the issue is finding one rated lower than the 1amp decoder stall current rating. There is one on eBay that comes up in my search and it looks identical to my current motor and is listed as new. But it could be "new" old stock which might put me back at square one. And unfortunately, there is virtually no spec info on it - typical for EBay items.
reasearchhoundAt this point (assuming I don't find an alternate explanation for what's going on) I am tempted to just get a new DCC ready unit and move everything I purchased for this project into it. Hate to give up on my old buddy but everything wears out eventually - I'm living proof of that.
My experience with dealing with Atlas Parts Service is that they tend not to stock parts like they used to, but keep donor locos around to steal parts off of. They likely do not have any motors from the older ROCO or Red Box productions. In any event, any motor that you get from Atlas will likely be from their newer designed locos and not the older ROCO or Red Box version. That could be the same motor that's installed in the updated run of S2s, but that's probably why the guy at Atlas wants a pic of yours. No, they don't always know what exact changes occur from run to run off the top of their heads.
Then you're getting into the equation of simply buying a new current design DCC Ready S2, which also has improved detail.
- Douglas
Yeah, it certainly could be the motor. But prior to doing any of this it was running fine - I really only undertook this upgrade in order to fit in a Current Keeper. But I guess that doesn't mean an age related flaw couldn't be showing up due to the new decoder - that just isn't something I would have expected. And I just can't believe any handling I did of the motor when redoing the insulation of it would have caused any damage - but anything is possible.
Athough I will likely go ahead and try to locate a new motor for it, the issue is finding one rated lower than the 1amp decoder stall current rating. There is one on eBay that comes up in my search and it looks identical to my current motor and is listed as new. But it could be "new" old stock which might put me back at square one. And unfortunately, there is virtually no spec info on it - typical for EBay items.
At this point (assuming I don't find an alternate explanation for what's going on) I am tempted to just get a new DCC ready unit and move everything I purchased for this project into it. Hate to give up on my old buddy but everything wears out eventually - I'm living proof of that.
Y first though is the motor itself. With it being older, could the thin insulation be worn or damaged on the windings allowing an intermittent short, or a loose broken solder connection at the commutator? Maybe a new motor needed? Did you put it into another loco with a similar motor to double check the decoder performance? Check motor without decoder on amp meter and see what the draw is.
shane
A pessimist sees a dark tunnel
An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel
A realist sees a frieght train
An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space
wrench567 That's very odd. I have a bunch of Austrian made Atlas locomotives and none of them have a stall current over an amp. My advice is to check and triple check the soldered joints. Also check if there is any metal part of the chassis that is touching the decoder when the shell is pressed on. Any metal grabs sticking through the shell? Nothing pressing on the flywheels with the shell on? If you have a NCE Power Cab, there is a built in amp meter. Just the weight of a plastic shell should not be taxing out the motor. Pete. P.S. I have a pair of Lifelike P2K SW1 using ESU decoders with 3/4 amp capacity. These are known to be power hogs and run flawless.
That's very odd. I have a bunch of Austrian made Atlas locomotives and none of them have a stall current over an amp. My advice is to check and triple check the soldered joints. Also check if there is any metal part of the chassis that is touching the decoder when the shell is pressed on. Any metal grabs sticking through the shell? Nothing pressing on the flywheels with the shell on? If you have a NCE Power Cab, there is a built in amp meter. Just the weight of a plastic shell should not be taxing out the motor.
P.S. I have a pair of Lifelike P2K SW1 using ESU decoders with 3/4 amp capacity. These are known to be power hogs and run flawless.
I agree (and hope) that the motor theory may not be the right one. A guy at my club who is pretty savvy avbout this stuff also feels it is not the correct answer. But I also want to feel that the Soundtraxx guy knows his stuff and hopefully isn't giving an answer that is just a guess.
I will once again delve into the working of the loco and hopefully discover another reason for the problem - hopefully a simple one that can be fixed.
Follow up. So I ended up ordering a TSU 1100 decoder per Soundtraxx's website recommendation for a S2, a Soundtraxx mini-speaker, and a Current Keeper 2. All from Lombard Hobbies (great outfit) and including shipping it came to a bit over $150. Yes, I know, for another $100 or so I could have gotten a new locomotive with DCC included but there is something about redoing an older but well loved, and still nice running locomotive.
Installed everything, which was a challenge due to the space restrictions but finally succeeded in doing so. Programmed it and put it on the layout track and sounds all worked well but engine would jerk a bit, stop, jerk again, stop, etc. Very rhythmic action to the start and stop. Took the shell off thinking something was binding or interfering and locomotive worked. Shell back on, nothing. Shell off again and still nothing so action is not not directly correlated to the shell being in place except I have not been able to get it to run with the shell on - ever. Checked all wiring including wires from trucks but have not yet traced them down to their source to see if something is amiss there.
Called Soundtraxx and tech support guy said he thinks it’s a stall current issue and that the older motor in my S2 (one stamped made in Austria) may be above the 1amp rating of the TSU1100. That info is frustrating because I bought that sound decoder based on Soundtraxx’s decoder reference page. So in effect, the decoder they recommend may not work on older versions - Auuuugh! Wish they would put a warning for potential buyers that that might be the case and that a stall current check is recommended to be sure. He said the TSU220 would work but since it’s bigger, likely won’t fit and that another sugar cube speaker would have to be wired in series - definitely not room for that.
So, question is, can another, more efficient motor, be installed into this frame consistent with the drive shaft assembly? Talked to the tech guy at Atlas and he wants me to send a pic of the existing motor to see if he can possibly help. Any thoughts from any of you about some other possible cause for the motor’s behavior, or a suggestion about locating a new motor with a stall current of less than 1 amp?
Thanks for reading - sorry about the length.
Dan
Thanks for your feedback.
Yes, they are a bit more money but by the time you add in a Current Keeper or Keep Alive to a decoder without one, the cost comes out to pretty much the same. And the compact nature and easier install of an "all in one" would more than make up for it even if it wasn't.
Hello All,
reasearchhoundAlso want to be able to put in a Current Keeper 2 if needed.
TCS (Train Control Systems) makes sound decoders- -for both diesel and steam; WOW101 KA Diesel or WOW101 KA Steam- -with built-in ESUs (Energy Storage Units) AKA- -Keep Alive® devices.
Yes, they are more expensive than other decoders, but having the ESU built into the decoder makes for a more compact installation.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
Pete - thanks for your response. I am interested in options that might be better but so far I have been thinking about a TSU 1100 from Soundtraxx. If so, I will probably get one of their suger cube speakers. Also want to be able to put in a Current Keeper 2 if needed.
Hi Dan.
You may look at a Loksound Nano with wires. It's the smallest decoder I would put in an HO scale locomotive. Will you be using the MRC speaker or trying something else? I have been buying sugar cube speakers with enclosure from an eBay seller for $10. Sound good and fit in the littlest of space.
I need a new decoder for my HO scale Atlas S2. Had a MRC drop-in sound and control (Platinum) decoder but would prefer to get something that is a bit more compact. This is an older unit with no existing pin connections but I am fairly adept at following installation and wiring directions. Suggestions?
Thanks,