I am relatively new to DCC. I have a Bachmann F7A loco and a matching F7B. Both are powered, and have factory installed DCC decoders with sound. Both are new, and still have the default 3 addresses. I know that usually the B unit is a dummy most of the time.
If I run them coupled together, will I have a problem if I only change the address of the A unit, and will it cause any trouble if they are both powered. If the B unit address remains at 3, will it remain quiet while running? I only want to use the sound in the A unit.
I don't want to damage either, and don't know if I will have any problem. I would appreciate any answers.
To run them together, you have to consist them. See the manual that came with your DCC system on how to do this. You can program the sound levels in the b unit to zero, or mute them by pressing the F8 button. You'll probably need to speed match them as well. search spped matchind dcc locomotives. Here's one source. https://tonystrains.com/news/locomotive-speed-matching-made-easy/
Joe
I run two E7s with the same address with out problems. I run sound in both, you could remove the A from the track and turn the sound off in the B and run them both with the same address.
When you get better in DCC programming you can program seperate addresses and run them in a consist. Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California Turned 84 in July, aging is definitely not for wimps.
If you're always going to run your A-B unit together, test them first to see if they need to be speedmatched. If they run well as a unit just address them to the same road number. I would only consist them if 1) both were A-units and 2) you might use them separately either by themselves or in other consists.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I have my own way of consisting. If I have 3 gp9 engines #'s 1,2,&3 that always run together I renumber them all as #1 one at a time. I have several sets that I always run like that and all are assigned the lowest number in the set. All any operator has to do is enter the lowest number for controlling all the engines.
One more vote for assigning the B unit(s) the same address as the A unit. Since it makes no sense to run the B unit alone except when testing, there is no reason to give it a unique number. I have assigned all my B units that way and it is not a problem.
As for dummy units, few if any manufacturers are offering those anymore. B units are almost always powered. I only have a few true dummy units on my roster.
I have a few A-B engines with the same address. I first checked if their speeds were the same: to do that, I changed their addresses to be the same, then I put them on the layout, about 3 inches apart. Then I started them up to see if the distance remained the same when moving. If that works, then I can connect them. I still monitor the engines to see if the speed changes on of them for some reason (it happened to one one of my sets). To do this, I just check the couplers between them to see if one is pulling or one is pushing too much (when both are coupled and in movement).
Simon
I always install the same brand of decoder in both locos. I've found that mixing manufacturers makes that difficult if not impossible. ESU's LokSound and LokPilot match up perfectly for me and I don't bother putting sound in the B unit.
With factory installed decoders, if the locos were sold as a set, they should be compatible although I would test it to make sure.
rdwarriorIf I run them coupled together, will I have a problem if I only change the address of the A unit,
Yes, if you assign a different address to the B unit it will not respond when you send throttle commands to it.
rdwarrior If the B unit address remains at 3, will it remain quiet while running?
No, both the A and B will have the same volume levels and will respond to sound commands. This can be annoying, especially the bell which will not exactly synchronize between the two units. The horn (s) will of course be loud and annoying.
To accomplish what you want to do would be to place the B unit on a programming track (or program by itself on the main) and set CV 128 to a much lower value (0 = no sound at all).
IF you'd like to still have the engine sounds but don't want to hear the bell and horn you can set CV 129 to 0 for the horn and/or CV 130 = 0 to silence the bell.
Therefore, you can have both A and B set to address 3 and have the diesel sounds from both but only the bell and horn eminating from the A unit only.
It would probably be a good idea to lower the overall sound on the A unit by setting CV 130 to a lower value there, as well (default is 192, nearly max. Try a value of 100 and see if you like it, then go from there)
https://soundtraxx.com/content/Reference/Factory-Installed/Bachmann/SoundValue/ho_f7a_sv.pdf
https://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/dwg/dwgs/EconamiQuickStartGuide.pdf
What DCC system are you using? This will help in guiding you how to make the various CV changes to "customize" your operations.
Good Luck, Ed
I am running with the Digitrax Zephyr DSC-52. It's the starter controller until I get more familiar with the programming. It is pretty easy picking up the CV changing procedures. I have 5 other locos that I have programmed, and all seems well with them.
I have a somewhat technical background and that is why I went directly to DCC with my initial layout. I just wasn't sure what had to be done to run the A and B units coupled together. I really appreciate your help.
rdwarriorI know that usually the B unit is a dummy most of the time.
In the real world, railroads don't use dummy engines of course. It's only a model railroad 'thing'.Before DCC, when running on regular DC, it could be very hard to get two engines to run at the same speed at the same power setting. To give the illusion of a having multiple engines pulling the train, manufacturers of model trains made "dummy" engines that could be pulled behind a powered engine. Since DCC came along, two engines can be adjusted to start, run, and stop the same, so there's really not much need for dummies, and few if any are made now.
rdwarriorIf the B unit address remains at 3, will it remain quiet while running? I only want to use the sound in the A unit.
That would be very unrealistic, since in the real world both engines would be running and making sounds. It would also be a waste of money - you could have bought a B unit without sound but using a much cheaper regular non-sound decoder).
However, if you decide to give both engines the same ID number, you may want to reduce the CV (control value) setting for the horn volume and bell volume in the B-unit's decoder to zero, so that only the A-unit makes the horn and bell sound. All other sounds (engine 'rumble', brake squeal, dynamic brakes, etc.) should be coming out of both engines.
Note that if two engines have different ID numbers and you put them together in a consist with your DCC system, generally only the "lead" engine (as you select when setting up the consist) will respond to the function buttons for the bell and horn.
Thanks to all of you responding. You were a big help. Now I think I have it, and what has to be done.
I had no problem with DCC wiring for my layout, but I find the CV and programming aspect is a little more confusing to understand. Thanks again.
Keep in mind the decoders come from the factory already programmed. All you're doing is "tweaking" them a little by changing a few CVs to set the ID, or make them both run the same speed, or to change the volume of the bell or horn.
In your situation, it sounds like if you change the IDs of both engines to the ID of the lead A unit, then look up the CVs for horn and bell and change those to zero for the B unit, you should be good to go. Both engines will make diesel "rumble" sounds like they should, but only the lead will respond to the bell and horn function buttons. You can always change other things later as you get more comfortable.
rdwarrior Thanks to all of you responding. You were a big help. Now I think I have it, and what has to be done. I had no problem with DCC wiring for my layout, but I find the CV and programming aspect is a little more confusing to understand. Thanks again.
I thought the same thing and didn't even attempt to change CVs for about 15 years after starting my DCC layout but once I tried it, I realized it's not hard at all. The important thing is to have the right documentation for your particular decoder because there isn't a lot of standardization when it comes to CVs. Most of them have the manual online and that will tell you which CVs to modify and the values to put in. When it comes to things like acceleration and deceleration, you can experiment to find what you like the best. Just make sure with paired locos you set them both the same way.
A tricky one is CV 29 which uses individual bits to control different functions. You have to figure out which bits to turn on to get the functions you want. It helps if you understand binary arithmetic and how to convert binary to decimal. That was easy for me since I was a computer programmer during my working life.
I think the CV 29 "bits" issue was more a thing with early decoders, most now are more "user friendly" that way. However, newer decoders now have many more options and settings (like ESU decoders) that can seem overwhelming. Using Decoder Pro or (if you use ESU decoders a lot) a LokProgrammer ends up quickly being worth the modest investment needed to set them up.
I find CV29 fairly easy compared to the "indexed" CVs that require one or two CVs to change first before altering the value of one or more other CVs. I program all my decoders to a value of "34" (28/128 speed step mode and 128 or > address) and turn off analog operation. If I need to reverse direction I add "1" to make it "35".
John-NYBWA tricky one is CV 29 which uses individual bits to control different functions. You have to figure out which bits to turn on to get the functions you want. It helps if you understand binary arithmetic and how to convert binary to decimal. That was easy for me since I was a computer programmer during my working life.
All anyone has to do is google "CV29 calculator" to get links to several online calculators where you just check your options and it gives you the value to progam into CV29.
wjstixI think the CV 29 "bits" issue was more a thing with early decoders, most now are more "user friendly" that way.
Did you mean DCC systems instead of decoders? Programming CV29 is the same for all decoders, what's different is the system you use to program it.
There are a few online calculators that make CV29 easy when starting out. My NCE Power Cab makes basic programming easy such as addressing, momentum, and speed control. Anything more than that you will need the proper documentation for the decoder. Decoder Pro is good too. For ESU Loksound decoders a programmer helps but not necessary unless a new sound set is desired. The programmer software is free to download. Using the software you look at the list of changed CVs. Then manually enter the changes on the program track.
Just remember that you can't ruin a decoder by programming it. If it doesn't work like you want a reset to factory defaults are a CV away. Before long you will be a CV master.
Pete.
You can use the same address or diffent address then consist. But you need to check speed match, i.e., if they run at the same speed with the same throttle inputs. Since both locos are from the same vendor, they may have the same speed to the throtttle. But it is better to check...
Jerry
All the decoders I've bought recently include documentation for CV values and that documentation is also available online. It would be nice if there was more standardization for CVs but that cat is already out of the bag and I don't think that is going to happen. CV3 and CV4 are pretty much standard for acceleration and deceleration but the values to plug into them are anything but standard. Due to the lack of standard values among manuacturers, speed matching locos with decoders from different manufacturers is very difficult if not impossible.
John-NYBWDue to the lack of standard values among manuacturers, speed matching locos with decoders from different manufacturers is very difficult if not impossible.
It's not that hard. Remember for the speed settings (CV5,6) it's just basically percentages. If you want to cut an engine's top speed in half, you adjust CV5 to one-half of whatever the top number allowed is, doesn't matter if that number is 128 or 64 or whatever.
Where people get confused is they think if you set CV5 on all your engines to the same number, the engines will run at the same speed. Even with two identical engines from the same manufacturer, one often runs a bit faster than the other so the CVs come out different.
I've recently started using an Accutrak II instead of trying to match one engine's speed to another. Accutrak shows you the scale MPHs of the engine. I set the CV5 so at top speed (step 128) the engine tops out at 64 MPH, and then if necessary tweak CV6 (midrange) so it's going 32 MPH at step 64. That way, each speed step represents 1/2 scale MPH, and all engines set that way should be able to run together in a consist OK.
CSX Robert wjstix I think the CV 29 "bits" issue was more a thing with early decoders, most now are more "user friendly" that way. Did you mean DCC systems instead of decoders? Programming CV29 is the same for all decoders, what's different is the system you use to program it.
I think the CV 29 "bits" issue was more a thing with early decoders, most now are more "user friendly" that way.
Hello All,
All great advice!
Especially about speed matching.
Speed matching becomes more important the more units you have in a consist.
John-NYBWI always install the same brand of decoder(s) in both locos. I've found that mixing manufacturers makes that difficult if not impossible (to speed match).
I run several consists on my pike:
There is also a cow & calf TR & TR2 (NW2s) and a MOW train that has an F7B and an Alco RS3.
The OEM Bachmann non-sound decoders are extremely basic and didn't support the CVs necessary to speed match.
I not only standardized the decoders in the consists but also re-motored the GP40s and GP30s so all the units in the same consist have the same motors.
This made speed matching much easier.
As far as addressing there are three types of consisting:
There are advantages and disadvantages to all three, as has been alluded to in other responses.
No matter which method you use I would use a unique two (2) or four (4) digit address over the factory set address of 3.
The advantage of using Advanced consisting is all the units in question retain their individual address and can be consisted in a separate address. Units can be "separated" for switching and then added back for running.
For the three (3) GP30s on my pike I can "separate" the second A unit from the consist, move the AB unit to the rear as helpers, then add the second A unit back to the consist to negotiate the 3% grade to the coal unloading platform.
Once the coal unloading process is over the AB consist is added back to the head end for over-road movement.
I could use Basic consisting for the four (4) unit consist of GP40s, because they always travel together.
With Advanced consisting I can turn off the lights on the two (2) middle units and have the front and rear units lights function directionally.
Even with two (2) units in a consist there are many factors to consider.
As far as CV calculation you can download JMRI DecoderPro. You don't have to connect this program to a programming track, you can use this as a tool to calculate CV values.
Digitrax also offers a CV calculator through their website; Digitrax Main Page > Support > CV Information & Tools > "Click here to see the CV calculators".
Keep the questions coming and as always...
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
John-NYBWESU's LokSound and LokPilot match up perfectly for me and I don't bother putting sound in the B unit.
I do speedmatch all the time. ESU has been the best. I can do speed match of ESU decoder equipped locos in 10min.... ESU decoders are much better than digitraxx...