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Different gauge wire

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Different gauge wire
Posted by mreagant on Wednesday, October 20, 2021 7:58 PM

I'm struggling with a wiring problem where one solution is to splice a 12g wire to a smaller gauge (22) wire.  This will involve a connection to my  MRC wireless command station. Question is will gauge difference create any problem. Distance of the connection to the command station will be less than 6".

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Posted by 7j43k on Wednesday, October 20, 2021 10:49 PM

mreagant

I'm struggling with a wiring problem where one solution is to splice a 12g wire to a smaller gauge (22) wire.  This will involve a connection to my  MRC wireless command station. Question is will gauge difference create any problem. Distance of the connection to the command station will be less than 6".

 

 

If I understand your question, the answer is "no".  A very short section of small gauge wire has negligible electrical effect.

 

Ed

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, October 20, 2021 11:51 PM

7j43k
A very short section of small gauge wire has negligible electrical effect.

With the voltages and current flow we use on our trains, the small section of light-gauge wire will have negligible (or zero) effect on performance.

I use 10 gauge wire for my bus, 16 gauge wire for controls, and 22 gauge wire to connect to the tracks. Wires even lighter than 22 gauge are in many of my locomotive shells.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, October 20, 2021 11:55 PM

A greater potential concern is the mechanics of the 'splice' between wires so different.  Making this with a wire nut will be awkward; splicing inconvenient.  A suitcase or similar connector is one answer, but I think I'd just use an intermediate piece of 18ga stranded 'lamp cord' between  the 22ga pigtail and whatever the 12ga solid wire is.

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Posted by gregc on Thursday, October 21, 2021 4:54 AM

Overmod
but I think I'd just use an intermediate piece of 18ga stranded 'lamp cord' between  the 22ga pigtail and whatever the 12ga solid wire is.

unnecessary.

consider wire nut, small barrier strip, solder, ...

mreagant
connection to my  MRC wireless command station.

despite manual saying to use 22g wire, can 12g wire be connected directly to command station?

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, October 21, 2021 10:29 AM

Lastspikemike
One technique I use when fitting "oversize" wire to a connection is to simply trim down the excess bare wire threads with sprue cutters

A good builder is judged by the techniques he uses. Removing wire strands from a stranded wire to reduce the effective wire gauge to fit it to a connector is always a bad idea and the sign of a shoddy wokrmaship by an unskilled worker taking short cuts.

-Kevin

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Posted by JDawg on Thursday, October 21, 2021 10:36 AM

SeeYou190

 

 
Lastspikemike
One technique I use when fitting "oversize" wire to a connection is to simply trim down the excess bare wire threads with sprue cutters

 

A good builder is judged by the techniques he uses. Removing wire strands from a stranded wire to reduce the effective wire gauge to fit it to a connector is always a bad idea and the sign of a shoddy wokrmaship by an unskilled worker taking short cuts.

-Kevin

 

 

Ok, I'm not a moderator and am by no means the most respected person here, but this needs to stop. Seriously guys. It takes two to tango, so someone needs to kick off the dancing shoes and be the bigger man here. BOTH of you. And don't anyone start to point fingers and do the old "he said" "she said". There is fault on BOTH SIDES! Good grief. 

JJF


Prototypically modeling the Great Northern in Minnesota with just a hint of freelancing. Smile, Wink & Grin

Yesterday is History.

Tomorrow is a Mystery.

But today is a Gift, that is why it is called the Present. 

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, October 21, 2021 10:44 AM

Pretty amazing how when I take the low road I get called out, but when LSM is driving the low road at 100MPH no one seems to say boo to him.

Maybe I should be glad I am held to a higher standard, but when I took the high road for months, LSM insulted me constantly. I filed countless RAs to no effect.

I took his bait and fed our troll, I guess this one was on me.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by JDawg on Thursday, October 21, 2021 10:52 AM

SeeYou190

Pretty amazing how when I take the low road I get called out, but when LSM is driving the low road at 100MPH no one seems to say boo to him.

Maybe I should be glad I am held to a higher standard, but when I took the high road for months, LSM insulted me constantly. I filed countless RAs to no effect.

Maybe I should just leave.

-Kevin

 

Kevin, come on. I know that the root problem may not come from you. I've seen Mike take pot-shots too. You just happened to post the post that I got fed up with. I like you and I love all the great knoledge you share, but as I said before, it takes two to tango.

If you really feel this strongly, just let Mike wallow in his self dug pity party. Don't lower yourself to his standards.

The same goes for you Mike. Just leave each other alone so that the threads can continue without bloodshed.

Again, I may be overstepping my position here, but I think that both parties need to take a step back. 

JJF


Prototypically modeling the Great Northern in Minnesota with just a hint of freelancing. Smile, Wink & Grin

Yesterday is History.

Tomorrow is a Mystery.

But today is a Gift, that is why it is called the Present. 

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, October 21, 2021 11:06 AM

mreagant

I'm struggling with a wiring problem where one solution is to splice a 12g wire to a smaller gauge (22) wire.  This will involve a connection to my  MRC wireless command station. 

It would help if you would elaborate on this wiring protocol.

What are you using the 12g and the 22g wires for, bus and feeders?

Rich 

Alton Junction

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Posted by 1971_Z28 on Thursday, October 21, 2021 11:06 AM

Someone needs to say something.

I am new here, but I am afraid to ask questions because this troll loves to attack people, so I have a lot to ask but I keep my mouth shut because of this one idiot.

I am 70 years old and I do not need his anger lowering the enjoyment of my renewed interest in model trains.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, October 21, 2021 11:08 AM

JDawg
If you really feel this strongly, just let Mike wallow in his self dug pity party. Don't lower yourself to his standards.

I will send you a PM.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by JDawg on Thursday, October 21, 2021 11:18 AM

SeeYou190

 

 
JDawg
If you really feel this strongly, just let Mike wallow in his self dug pity party. Don't lower yourself to his standards.

 

I will send you a PM.

-Kevin

 

 

OK

JJF


Prototypically modeling the Great Northern in Minnesota with just a hint of freelancing. Smile, Wink & Grin

Yesterday is History.

Tomorrow is a Mystery.

But today is a Gift, that is why it is called the Present. 

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Posted by CSX Robert on Thursday, October 21, 2021 12:31 PM

JDawg
Ok, I'm not a moderator and am by no means the most respected person here, but this needs to stop. Seriously guys. It takes two to tango, so someone needs to kick off the dancing shoes and be the bigger man here. BOTH of you. And don't anyone start to point fingers and do the old "he said" "she said". There is fault on BOTH SIDES! Good grief.

Agreed!

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Posted by CGW103 on Thursday, October 21, 2021 1:30 PM

Neither one is worth taking seriously. Both are a joke.

 

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Posted by JDawg on Thursday, October 21, 2021 1:34 PM

Ok. I want to resind my comments about Kevin. Some things came to light that make me feel bad I badmouthed Kevin. Still need less confrontation though  

JJF


Prototypically modeling the Great Northern in Minnesota with just a hint of freelancing. Smile, Wink & Grin

Yesterday is History.

Tomorrow is a Mystery.

But today is a Gift, that is why it is called the Present. 

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Posted by jjdamnit on Thursday, October 21, 2021 2:03 PM

Hello All,

A short section of smaller diameter wire should not be a problem; approximately 4- to 6-inches or less, with 10 amps or less.

I would use a "Western Union" splice.

Strip back about an inch of insulation on each wire. Begin with the smaller diameter wire being longer than needed, approximately 8- to 12-inches.

I like to twist the bare ends of the stranded wires for ease of handling.

Cross the wires 1/3 from each end of the insulation at approximately 90º.

This is where it gets trick and practice will definitely help.

Pinch the crossed wires between thumb and forefinger. With the other thumb and forefinger twist the wires in unison, keeping the 90º offset between the wires.

If done correctly, the twisted wires should resemble intertwined corkscrews. If it appears that one wire is just twisted around the other straight wire try again. 

Twist the wires until the cut end meets the insulation of the other wire.

Repeat this twisting motion on the other side.

Once successful, flux and solder the connection for strength. Clean thoroughly with isopropyl alcohol.

Slip a piece of shrink wrap over the soldered joint and heat until set.

Cut the smaller diameter wire to size, strip and tin the end. The shorter the length of the smaller wire is best.

If you can make this 2- to 3-inches all the better. Less distance = less resistance.

Simply trimming the strands of the larger wire to match the smaller diameter creates more resistance than splicing and soldering both wires in their entirety.

Greater resistance = Greater heat.

Greater heat = Greater potential for fire.

Fire = BAD!!!

Hope this helps.

"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"

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Posted by selector on Thursday, October 21, 2021 2:59 PM

1971_Z28

Someone needs to say something.

I am new here, but I am afraid to ask questions because this troll loves to attack people, so I have a lot to ask but I keep my mouth shut because of this one idiot.

I am 70 years old and I do not need his anger lowering the enjoyment of my renewed interest in model trains.

 

It's the nature of every public forum to have one or two strident voices who simply must be heard.  Please don't allow this to distract you from enjoying what you came here to find.  It's still here, but there's a bit more grit than you might have been used to. Big Smile

Some forums allow us to block certain members whose posts then become invisible in your feed.  I have never resorted to using it on any of the fora I frequent, but that's just me.  I'd rather know what's happening in the 'real' world and in real time, if I can help it.

Deep breaths, there's a lot of good people here with solid credentials and good intentions.

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Posted by gregc on Thursday, October 21, 2021 6:04 PM

gregc
mreagant
connection to my  MRC wireless command station.

there's no issue using a smaller gauge wire, it's what the command station manual (pg 2-1) specifies "(22 AWG or heavier)"

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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Posted by BigDaddy on Thursday, October 21, 2021 6:50 PM

SeeYou190
Removing wire strands from a stranded wire to reduce the effective wire gauge to fit it to a connector is always a bad idea

Ignoring the rest of the sentence that I did not quote, why is it a bad idea?  You have a fat wire that needs to go into a skinny hole.  A Western Union splice between a 12 ga and 22 ga wire doesn't sound like much fun to my arthritic hands and what happens is the smaller guage wire wraps around the larger guage wire, which doesn't move much at all.

Choosing either of those techniques, or side to side soldering of pieces of wire, or suitcase type connectors, is there any difference electrically?

 

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by mreagant on Thursday, October 21, 2021 7:57 PM

I think I'm glad I asked the question, but I'm sorry it morphed into what I didn't think was a thing to generate these disputes.

Good news is that most of the posts gave me the answer. Better news is that iv solve the problem by modifications to a 9 screw terminal strip.

If anyone else has a similar problem I'll explain what I did.

Mike

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Posted by jjdamnit on Friday, October 22, 2021 3:31 PM

Hello All,

mreagant
I think I'm glad I asked the question, but I'm sorry it morphed into what I didn't think was a thing to generate these disputes.

You should feel confident in asking questions on these forums.

You should not feel responsible for the negativity generated by others.

Unfortunately- -as with other aspects of modern life- -readers need to "filter out the noise" from the negative sources.

Yes, there are bad actors on these forums.

There are many more that truly want to help enlighten.

Over time you will come to recognize the sincere sources. 

Personally, I don't give credence to several participants in these forums in regards to their responses. And, I'm sure there are those that feel the same about me.

That being said...

Congratulations on finding a solution!

I too am a big fan of terminal strips (barrier blocks, etc.).

On my pike I am unable to run traditional bus wires.

From the NCE command station/booster a pair of 16 AWG wires run to a 12-pole terminal strip in the center of the pike.

The wires are tinned at the CS/B end. For the terminal strip ends I use spade connectors or tinned ends, depending on the receptacle.

Every other pole is ganged together with short sections of 22 AWG wire with spade connectors or tinned ends.

This gives 6-pairs from the booster to tap into while reducing the wire gauge from 16 to 22 AWG.

I have five (5) power districts total: four (4) protected by single NCE EB1circuit breakers, and an NCE AR10 (auto-reversing unit with a circuit breaker) used for the wye.

The circuit breakers tie into the terminal strip from the command station/booster "downstream" or "output" of the terminal strip.

Glad to hear you found a solution to your particular solution (see my signature).

Hope this helps.

Post Script:
I use blue jacketed wire for my track feeders with strips of colored electrical tape or shrink-wrap to denote the polarity Red (+), Black (-).

Pro Tip: Mark the screw heads on your terminal strips with colored markers.
Some of my terminal strips are divided into half one polarity with the other half the opposite polarity, as opposed to every other terminal.

This can help when diagnosing those pesky electrical gremlins and can be removed with isopropyl alcohol.
H.T.H.- -J.J.D.I.

"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"

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Posted by York1 on Friday, October 22, 2021 3:58 PM

I also am a fan of terminal strips.  I found these that have all the screws connected.  I can connect one screw on each strip to the power, and branch off all the other screws from there.  The top left screw on each strip is input power.  All the other screws are output.

This is for some LEDs in my layout's town.

 

York1 John       

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Friday, October 22, 2021 4:56 PM

York1
I also am a fan of terminal strips.  I found these that have all the screws connected.  I can connect one screw on each strip to the power, and branch off all the other screws from there. 

I did something similar with tie strips. I pre-placed the resistors so all I have to do is pull the wires through and solder them to the two lower strips. 

The bus work is just inside the rim joist on cup hooks. They can be dropped down below the framework and feeders can be soldered from a chair in the isle.

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by York1 on Friday, October 22, 2021 7:59 PM

SpaceMouse
The bus work is just inside the rim joist on cup hooks. They can be dropped down below the framework and feeders can be soldered from a chair in the isle.

 

Nice work!

I had already completed quite a bit of the wiring for my layout by crawling under the table and working over my head -- not good!

Lion posted a picture of his wiring that was all right behind the fascia.  That's when I changed how I was doing things, and it was the best thing I did.  Just like you, I can now sit in a chair and do all the wiring connections.

York1 John       

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, October 23, 2021 2:07 PM

It never occurred to me to plumb terminal strips in the middle of 12ga feeders, or mount them to hang on cuphooks for easy access.  It was worth all the consternation just for these insights!

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Posted by RR_Mel on Saturday, October 23, 2021 3:26 PM

 
 
I have a MRC Prodigy Advance² Control Station and it uses a green Phoenix 1757035 Pluggable Terminal Block, wire size #12 AWG to #24AWG.  

I use #18AWG stranded wire between the controller and my power buss.


Mel


 
My Model Railroad   
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/
 
Bakersfield, California
 
Turned 84 in July, aging is definitely not for wimps.
 

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Saturday, October 23, 2021 10:27 PM

Overmod
It was worth all the consternation just for these insights!

LOL!

Well, wrap me in dough and call me a Twinkie.

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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