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Rivarossi Allegheny Electrical Pick-up Problem

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Rivarossi Allegheny Electrical Pick-up Problem
Posted by railandsail on Tuesday, October 19, 2021 9:06 AM

I have a few of these marvelous Allegheny locomotives, and recently decided to sell one of them. The buyer ask if I could test run one of them he was interested in. Since I just got my lower deck up and running, I thought why not run this test on a few of my Alleghenys, included a really heavily weather one I bought years ago and don't recall if i ever tested it.

 

I had this one that was questionable, particularly where it crossed over from one district to the other (plain DC in this case). When I first looked down thru the driver wheels it appeared as if one of the little 'pusher pins' was not springing out against the inside surface of its driver wheel.

I decided I needed to inspect this problem closer. Sure enough I found a defective pusher-pin,...two of these per 'truck',..one was defective.

(photos not included)

Has anyone else experienced such a problem? I'm guess this little spring loaded pin needs replacing. Wonder where I will find one??

Wonder about safely removing old one and installing new one,....likely some sort of press fit?

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Tuesday, October 19, 2021 11:04 AM

Are these pins shown in this drawing?

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by railandsail on Tuesday, October 19, 2021 11:18 AM

Surprisingly I do NOT see those pins in those drawings,..(critical part of electrical pick-up)

I just got the offensive one out of the frame structure that holds the 3 axels, and I will photo it individually, but posting it could be a problem.

I've made an inquiry with Hornby parts to see what they have to say, and weither thay have the part??

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Posted by railandsail on Thursday, October 21, 2021 7:07 AM

I seem to remember these type of pins have been used on other steam loco models,...and from other manufactorers. I have emailed Hornby in England to see if they have replacement parts?

This was an interesting site with lots of similar contact pins,...

https://au.element14.com/harwin/p70-1000045r/spring-loaded-contact-pin-3...

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, October 21, 2021 1:26 PM

railandsail
I seem to remember these type of pins have been used on other steam loco models,

Interesting.

I don't think any of my steam locomotive models use these pins. I only have a small selection of plastic steamers. I will take a closer look at my "new" IHC 2-10-2 and see what its electrical pick up strategy looks like.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by PM Railfan on Thursday, October 21, 2021 9:05 PM

Ive only come across Riva using this type of pickup. I actually prefer this type. Of all the parts i see available for Riva's, oddly enough these never show up. So im not sure if you can get any aside from parting out another Riva. EBay prolly your best - first choice.

These work so well ive not had to mess with them. When they do get a little stiff, dropping them into a dixie cup of light oil overnight usually fixed that problem.

I give them a short workout after the soaking to make sure 1)most of the oil is gone (no hydrastatic locking!) 2) good working and free of binding, before i replace them back into model. Sometimes twisting the tiny lil contact reseats it on the spring enough to free it up.

When working correctly, if you push in the lil contact button, and release it, it should sound like clicking a ball point pen and work similarly.

 

PMR

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Posted by gmpullman on Friday, October 22, 2021 2:39 AM

Curiosity got the better of me. I decided to take a look at my stash of locomotive hulks and lo, there was an NYC Empire State Hudson (1981 vintage) with Scullin Disk drivers and a pair of nice pips. (I call 'em pips anyway).

 Rivarossi_pip-frame by Edmund, on Flickr

This engine hasn't run since 2005 when the motor decided it was time for replacement. Haven't gotten around to it yet.

 Rivarossi_pip-dia by Edmund, on Flickr

They still have crud collecting on the contact points Whistling

You want a pair send me your address in a PM and I'll have the Captain see that you get 'em.

 Rivarossi_pip by Edmund, on Flickr

Cheers, Ed

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, October 22, 2021 9:50 AM

railandsail
This was an interesting site with lots of similar contact pins...

But why link to the Australian site instead of the American site?  Do they have a better selection of these types of pin there?

Their United States site is

https://www.newark.com/?pf_custSiteRedirect=true

with the same search term 'spring-loaded contact pin'

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Posted by snjroy on Friday, October 22, 2021 11:00 AM

gmpullman

You want a pair send me your address in a PM and I'll have the Captain see that you get 'em.

 Rivarossi_pip by Edmund, on Flickr

Cheers, Ed

 

Is that Captain Highliner??

Anyway, if mine give me trouble some day, I might just add power pickups on the tender and ignore the ones on the drivers.

Simon

 

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Posted by railandsail on Saturday, October 23, 2021 10:05 AM

gmpullman

 

You want a pair send me your address in a PM and I'll have the Captain see that you get 'em.

 Rivarossi_pip by Edmund, on Flickr

Cheers, Ed

 

 

They are a little different in design in that the ones on the Allegheny have a bit of a collar arrangement on the outer housing,...but they look like they use the same small spring. I might be able to make them work if you think you might not use them. [Email address removed by moderator.  Please PM to exchange contact information - Thanks.]

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, October 23, 2021 2:03 PM

Kalmbach
[Email address removed by moderator.  Please PM to exchange contact information - Thanks.]

WILL YOU FIX THE PM SYSTEM SO WE CAN ACTUALLY DO THAT, PLEASE??????

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Posted by gregc on Saturday, October 23, 2021 2:14 PM

Overmod
Kalmbach
[Email address removed by moderator.  Please PM to exchange contact information - Thanks.]

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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Posted by gmpullman on Saturday, October 23, 2021 7:27 PM

gregc
if you click on someone's name to see their profile, their public email is listed under contact.

 

Correct.

 

 M_R-profile by Edmund, on Flickr

It's been right there for eighteen years now. All you have to do is look.

Cheers, Ed

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Posted by railandsail on Sunday, October 24, 2021 7:20 AM

gmpullman

Curiosity got the better of me. I decided to take a look at my stash of locomotive hulks and lo, there was an NYC Empire State Hudson (1981 vintage) with Scullin Disk drivers and a pair of nice pips. (I call 'em pips anyway).

 Rivarossi_pip-frame by Edmund, on Flickr

This engine hasn't run since 2005 when the motor decided it was time for replacement. Haven't gotten around to it yet.

 Rivarossi_pip-dia by Edmund, on Flickr

They still have crud collecting on the contact points Whistling

You want a pair send me your address in a PM and I'll have the Captain see that you get 'em.

 Rivarossi_pip by Edmund, on Flickr

Cheers, Ed

 

 

My Allegheny pins are quiet a bit smaller in diameter .....0826" according to my cheapie harbour freight tool.

They are also a bit longer,...with a collar on the 'outer end' that fits up next to the truck frame.

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Posted by railandsail on Sunday, October 24, 2021 7:24 AM

Overmod

 

 
Kalmbach
[Email address removed by moderator.  Please PM to exchange contact information - Thanks.]

 

WILL YOU FIX THE PM SYSTEM SO WE CAN ACTUALLY DO THAT, PLEASE??????

 

 

 

I had the same problem when I first tried to send a private message. The big window that opened up for me to compose my message just DID NOT work,...so why is it there??

It did not give me any hint how to find it,...local knowledge I guess?

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Posted by railandsail on Sunday, October 24, 2021 7:27 AM

Overmod

 

 
railandsail
This was an interesting site with lots of similar contact pins...

 

But why link to the Australian site instead of the American site?  Do they have a better selection of these types of pin there?

 

Their United States site is

https://www.newark.com/?pf_custSiteRedirect=true

with the same search term 'spring-loaded contact pin'

 

That was the link provided by the fellow who happens to be a very knowledgeable contributor to another form,....and he is from that area of the world.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, October 24, 2021 11:40 AM

railandsail
I had the same problem when I first tried to send a private message.

The PM message functionality only seems to effect a few people.

Mine works fine.

-Kevin

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Posted by tstage on Sunday, October 24, 2021 12:04 PM

Overmod
Kalmbach
[Email address removed by moderator.  Please PM to exchange contact information - Thanks.]

WILL YOU FIX THE PM SYSTEM SO WE CAN ACTUALLY DO THAT, PLEASE?????

Unfortunately, out of my jurisdiction.  The ever-promised "upgrade" should fix those issues but that's been a dangling carrot for a couple of years now.

Tom

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, October 25, 2021 10:49 AM

gregc
if you click on someone's name to see their profile, their public email is listed under contact.   i can [read] overmods public email: ...@hotmail.com

Yes, but PM and 'private e-mail' are two radically different things... and not all forum members have an 'open' e-mail address... or a current one.  I don't actively monitor the one at hotmail.com and anyone trying to "PM" me there without notice in thread might have a year or more wait... Whistling

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Posted by railandsail on Tuesday, October 26, 2021 9:04 PM

I have emailed Hornby in both the USA and in UK lloking for those parts. I received a message back from the US address. They are no longer handling parts, and it sounded like they are getting out of model trains period.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, October 27, 2021 12:14 AM

railandsail
it sounded like they are getting out of model trains period.

What makes you say this?

Hornby leaving model railroading would surprise me.

-Kevin

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Posted by gmpullman on Wednesday, October 27, 2021 12:28 AM

SeeYou190
Hornby leaving model railroading would surprise me.

I believe he was making reference to Hornby USA:

https://us.hornby.com/?langSelect=true

Cheers, Ed

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, October 27, 2021 10:14 AM

gmpullman
I believe he was making reference to Hornby USA:

OK, that makes more sense. Thanks for the link.

I was not aware that Airfix was part of Hornby.

-Kevin

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, October 27, 2021 4:25 PM

15 years now... a mere bagatelle.

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Posted by railandsail on Thursday, October 28, 2021 10:48 AM

I was making reference to Hornby USA, as it was hinted at in their reply email to me.

BTW I read a bit on Hornby (international), and it sounds as they they have had quite a few financial problems and ownership changes over the past several years. It didn't make me feel as though I might get a proper response from them in my search for Allegheny parts??

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, October 29, 2021 10:40 AM

railandsail
It didn't make me feel as though I might get a proper response from them in my search for Allegheny parts??

At least try them and see.

I still can't figure out how these pins fail rather than just sticking.  Do they fail due to micro-arcing on the inside where we don't see? I think a few minutes in solvent in the ultrasonic, working the plunger periodically, followed by drying and a little 'conductive lube' (not that it conducts electricity but that it facilitates good metal contact), ought to fix almost any issue with them, and burnishing the contact tip and the contact patch on the driver tyre perhaps anything else (?) 

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Posted by gmpullman on Friday, October 29, 2021 3:06 PM

Overmod
Do they fail due to micro-arcing on the inside where we don't see?

I mentioned my theory on one of the several other forum sites (can't remember which one now?) where Mr. Railandsail is discussing these pins.

I believe that under certain conditions of higher current draw, perhaps aggrevated by not getting good continuity through the other current "collectors" that the full motor load is being carried through the internal spring only

Imagine that spring glowing like an incandescent lamp filament inside the sleeve.

Once it has been heated beyond cherry-red the metal is now annealed beyond the point where it will have any termper to keep the plunger in contact with the inside of the wheel rim (tire).

I recall one of the members at an HO club I belonged to commenting that the "cheap" replacement Kadee coupler knuckle springs he was installing on his Athearn locomotives keep failing.

He brought the engines to the club and I looked at the coupler springs and they were blackened by excessive heat.

It didn't take me long to realize that while he was running the engines back-to-back and the "hot" frames were of opposite polarity, one picking up the right rail and the other in concert with the left that a potential short was developing.

Enough resistance was passing through the couplers that eventually the springs would overheat and either vaporize, like a fuse, or distort with the excess heat.

Kadee's plastic-shank couplers cured this conundrum.

Thank you, Ed

Regards, Ed

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