crossthedogAnd yes!!! I'm having fun.
The you are doing it right!
-Kevin
Living the dream.
This awful excuse for a site is deleting posts every five minutes this morning, so I apologize in advance jf it keeps getting longer without notice.
The original 'intended use' is to secure an already-presumably-strong cigarette splice. That is in part why the fabrication, with a formed ring of solder presumably dipped in flux being pressed on a mandrel inserting it into the heat-shrink tube, 'works' as a 360-degrees-of-rotation application: heat and pressure liquefy it and it runs into the cigarette joint and spreads longitudinally.
In my opinion there may be significant advantage to just running the connector up the wire, positioning the wire end parallel to the leg, sliding the connector down over the two and heat-gunning the encapsulated joint from the outside. For that you would not need a ring if solder, just an oriented strip; the leg could easily be mechanically roughened or chemically etched for better adhesion; an adequate amount of suitable flux could easily be applied to wire or leg before sliding the joint, without compromising the adhesive on the outer end; wire or leg can easily be pretinned with comparable low-melt solder and flux.
What you then avoid is all the crap about holding the wire while the solder freezes, joints coming loose when subsequent connections are soldered, etc. You have ONE tool, that doesn't pose a burn or scar hazard, that doesn't have to be carefully manipulated while holding parts aligned, and visual proof of good joint is easily seen through the connector. If reheat softens the joint the heat-shrunk tube holds the arrangement; no solder can drip or wick where it shouldn't go.
Theoretically you could get the same effect by poking thin wire solder or cuts up inside a piece of clear heatshrink. But that involves having the low-temperature material and its flux (see Tix) on hand, getting solder and flux in the right place, ensuring that sliding it up and down the wire doesn't dislodge or mess up anything... having the thing premade in a facility seems to have a number of advantages.
Certainly it's not for everyone. But this thread was started and largely patronized by people who appear to be 'soldering iron challenged' in one way or another, whereas most everyone can hold something in one hand and play a hair dryer over it with the other...
Overmod In case anyone is still following this: Something came up in a different thread that looks as if it might be an applicable approach here. https://rt66supply.com/blogs/news/solder-seal-connector One of these might be trimmed on the end to put the 'ring' of low-melting solder over the center leg of the throw. With the wire held parallel to the leg slide the connector down just as earlier described for heat sink, and use the gun to shrink the tubing, activate the internal adhesive, and melt the solder. Then use any convenient method for the 'outer' legs that now cannot short easily to each other... (of course you could repeat the process for the other legs) I have not tried this yet, so I encourage those actually using the throws to at least test a SolderSeal connector for making the center connection.
In case anyone is still following this:
Something came up in a different thread that looks as if it might be an applicable approach here.
https://rt66supply.com/blogs/news/solder-seal-connector
One of these might be trimmed on the end to put the 'ring' of low-melting solder over the center leg of the throw. With the wire held parallel to the leg slide the connector down just as earlier described for heat sink, and use the gun to shrink the tubing, activate the internal adhesive, and melt the solder. Then use any convenient method for the 'outer' legs that now cannot short easily to each other... (of course you could repeat the process for the other legs)
I have not tried this yet, so I encourage those actually using the throws to at least test a SolderSeal connector for making the center connection.
For one thing, those connectors are designed for joining wires together, not for mounting wires on conductor strips like a Caboose Industries ground throw.
YouTube reviews for the Solder Seal Connector are not all that positive. If you want to connect wires together like that, why not just use a butt spice?
Would it even work? As you say, you would need to trim it to put the 'ring' of low-melting solder over the center leg of the throw. Ugh.
The one good thing about the instructions for the solder seal connector is to use a heat gun. The instructions suggest a Wagner which is exactly what I use to shrink tubing over a soldered joint (simple heat shrink tubing).
I went back and looked at the instructions for a CI 220S. The instructions recommend doing the assembly at the workbench which is exactly what I would do. Start out by soldering a wire to the center leg. Use a heat gun to apply heat shrink tubing for protection against shorts. Then solder wires to the two outer legs. Done.
Rich
Alton Junction
crossthedog have this feeling that every man jack of you here on this forum is a retired electrician. Aren't there any other English majors or failed poets, bakers?
Hi Matt,
I had a bakery many years ago! It nearly killed me!!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
crossthedog one of the things we've dreamed about is opening a bakery together.
crossthedogthis warmed the cockles of my heart (whatever those are)
Well wonder no more! My library has a subscription to the OED and so I looked it up as I didn't know myself! Here it is:
a. Originally: a small edible marine bivalve mollusc native to coastal waters of the northern and eastern Atlantic, Cerastoderma edule (family Cardiidae), having a thick ribbed shell of a whitish yellow or brown colour. In later use (more widely): any of numerous similar molluscs of the family Cardiidae. Also with distinguishing word.dog cockle, heart cockle, strawberry cockle, etc.: see the first element.
(Hide quotations)
b. The (fossil) shell of such a mollusc, esp. a single valve of the shell; an artificial imitation of such a shell. Cf. cockleshell n. 1a.
c. A scallop shell, or an imitation or representation of this, as the badge or emblem of a person, group, etc.; esp. this as the emblem of St James the Great, worn by pilgrims who have visited his shrine at Compostela in Spain or as a badge of pilgrimage more generally; = cockleshell n. 1b.With quot. 1517 cf. Order of the Cockle at Phrases 1a.
richhotrainDon't despair. Over time, you will be answering questions as much or more as asking questions.
-Matt
Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.
AblebakercharlieI am two of the three things you mentioned - an English major who has owned and operated a bakery cafe for the last 20 years with my wife.
AblebakercharlieI am a newcomer back in the hobby such as yourself. I have no previous electrical experience but I read books, follow youtube videos and read the posts here on the forum. Then I give it a go and learn from my mistakes and give it another go until it works.
This is what I do, too, exactly. I haven't got a mentor here but a number of members have been especially helpful, and then there are the ones who comment less often but happen to offer just that timely bit of insight that pushes me into the next level of understanding or gives me the idea that fits the situation. I also am unshy about asking bonehead 101-level questions, which is I think why so many of my posts become conflagrations of argument. Anyway, glad to meet a fellow English major.
crossthedog Aren't there any other English majors or failed poets, bakers
This was amusing to read as I am two of the three things you mentioned - an English major who has owned and operated a bakery cafe for the last 20 years with my wife. Never really tried my hand at poetry.
I am a newcomer back in the hobby such as yourself. I have no previous electrical experience but I read books, follow youtube videos and read the posts here on the forum. Then I give it a go and learn from my mistakes and give it another go until it works.
It is also very helpful to have a sort of mentor to ask specific questions and get detailed explanations of their layout like Mel has graciously done to help me!
From reading your posts it looks like you are making progress and your layout is coming right along. I think you are doing all the right things to make it happen as long as you are having fun while doing it!
Cheers!
charles
crossthedog I have this feeling that every man jack of you here on this forum is a retired electrician. Aren't there any other English majors or failed poets, bakers? It's a benefit to me, but I sure feel like a dodo among all you electrical smarties.
I have this feeling that every man jack of you here on this forum is a retired electrician. Aren't there any other English majors or failed poets, bakers? It's a benefit to me, but I sure feel like a dodo among all you electrical smarties.
SeeYou190In preparation of the next layout, I have been buying ten-packs of colored wire as I find decent prices.
SeeYou190All of the train controls will leave the transformer, go to a polarity selector switch, then to a guage tap, then an on/off switch, then the main bus.
Anyway, thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge.
crossthedogKevin, that joint is a work of art, but I wonder why you didn't use one of your Wagos there. It looks like one wire being spliced into the middle of another, so I wonder why you took the trouble to remove the insulation from the continuous wire. Anyhow, it looks clean and smart. Mine, as has hopefully been established, did not.
I am just simply nuts.
I never cut and splice my bus wires. They are single-piece heavy gauge stranded wire from the main on/off switch to the far end of the layout.
When I need to tap into the bus, I strip off a section of insulation, and then wrap and solder the tap wire to the unbroken bus wire. Then I seal it all with a piece of glue-lined double-wall heat shrink tubing.
My next layout will have five bus wire pairs.
1) Local train control (red/black)
2) Inner loop (yellow/green)
3) Outer loop (blue/white)
4) Tortoise supply (orange/brown)
5) A/C Accessories (purple/gray)
All of the train controls will leave the transformer, go to a polarity selector switch, then to a guage tap, then an on/off switch, then the main bus. Once the main bus is started, it will be unbroken.
Having an unbroken bus wire is not necessary, and there are advantages to breaking the wire at distribution points. No one method will ever be right for everyone.
I have yet to use a WAGO connector on a layout. My last layout was built about ten years ago, and I was not aware of these yet.
While they will not be used on the main bus wires, they will certainly be employed if additional connections are needed into a tap wire.
In preparation of the next layout, I have been buying ten-packs of colored wire as I find decent prices.
I also have a very good stash of various hook-up wire spools left over from previous layouts.
gregcif i'm splicing wires together, to lengthen them for example, i'll use a piece of insulation from a larger wire. i might use insulation from 18g wire to slide over a splice of 22g wire
@Kevin, that joint is a work of art, but I wonder why you didn't use one of your Wagos there. It looks like one wire being spliced into the middle of another, so I wonder why you took the trouble to remove the insulation from the continuous wire. Anyhow, it looks clean and smart. Mine, as has hopefully been established, did not.
@Rich, you're very generous but there's no need to send me a heat gun. I could afford it if it became the next indicated thing. I've just bought a lot of tools and supplies this summer and I need to rein it back a bit.
richhotrainAt some point early on I began to realize that I was becoming the target of challenges for simply commenting that you should use a heat gun.
it's sad to hear you feel like a "target" or "challenged". i believe the forum is about sharing ideas and experiences. (i don't learn from hearing what i already know)
there is of course no one right way of doing things. we may not all have the same tools, materials, skill levels or understanding.
i would prefer to use a heat gun if it's handy. others i work with use a lighter. i'm comfortable using a soldering iron if soldering.
my take-away is becoming aware that some heat-shrink may melt.
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
crossthedog @Rich, your research efforts on behalf of proving the possibility that I might be telling the truth when I said my tip got goopy with the tubing are nothing short of heroic. Thank you. It sort of speaks to an excess of time on people's hands that there was so much discussion of whether or not my stated experience could actually be something that could be experienced.
@Rich, your research efforts on behalf of proving the possibility that I might be telling the truth when I said my tip got goopy with the tubing are nothing short of heroic. Thank you. It sort of speaks to an excess of time on people's hands that there was so much discussion of whether or not my stated experience could actually be something that could be experienced.
The heat gun does an amazing job of securing wire joints together, and the results are a sight to behold. Of particular elegance is the joint with a resistor between wires. Once the heat gun is applied, you can see the outline of the center piece of the resistor inside the heat shrunk tubing.
Good luck with your project.
crossthedogI also noted the idea of liquid tape. Lots of options, as usual.
if i'm splicing wires together, to lengthen them for example, i'll use a piece of insulation from a larger wire. i might use insulation from 18g wire to slide over a splice of 22g wire
For over 20 years at work and on the layouts I have used this small Butane torch to shrink heat-shrink tubing.
On about 30% valve opening it produces the perfect amount of heat to make the tubing shrink quite nicely.
It is also great for lighting fireworks!
richhotrainFor those of you who don't think that a soldering iron applied directly to heat shrink tubing won't melt the tubing into a gooey mess, consider Randy Rinker's reply in that link that Ed provided. rrinker This is where a true variable temperature soldering station comes in handy - if I turn mine down, it will shrink the tube without melting it all over the tip in a gooey mess like happens with an ordinary soldering iron. This is what happened to the OP. crossthedog I heated it up with the soldering iron after I slipped it over the joint. It didn't shrink a lot but it gummed up my iron tip and got very goopy.
I also noted the idea of liquid tape. Lots of options, as usual. Thanks all.
Very funny!
Heat-shrink tubing is just plastic that has been selectively irradiated while stretched. This makes it 'relax' smaller when it is warmed. But it will NOT do well if you then heat it to (let alone past) its melting point...
For those who don't appreciate the humor, the heat-shrink tubing is for wire insulation, and you heat it with a hair dryer, or gently with a heat gun, or with the reflow hot-air-blower on a soldering station on low setting, so it snugs up to the joint to insulate it electrically.
While you "can" heat it with the radiated heat from a soldering iron, you have to be careful to keep the iron at a distance and move it around to evenly 'shrink' the whole of the tubing evenly. See Tom's point above about selective heating to fix the tubing in place while you work.
You move the tubing 'up' on the wire, so it won't be prematurely affected by the heat as you solder the joint, then slide it back after the joint has cooled -- don't try to use residual heat in the joint to economically start shrinking the tubing too.
And no, you will never. ever insulate a soldering-iron tip with the stuff...
Went to see what would happen with my heat shrink tubeing on a tip of the 30w soldering pencil. It did not do anything but shrink, smoke, stink and get baked to a hard in some places tube that still has some softness to it in some places.
gregc it may not be obvious that ... the iron only shrinks the part of the heat shrink in contact with the iron. so the iron has to be moved around to shrink the entire length and circumference of the shrink wrap.
it may not be obvious that ...
the iron only shrinks the part of the heat shrink in contact with the iron. so the iron has to be moved around to shrink the entire length and circumference of the shrink wrap.
And the plus is that this allows you greater control over the heat shrink. Sometimes I don't want uniform shrinkage over the entire length and want one end left "pre-shrunk" to provide strain-relief for wiring or allow something to be easily removed.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I'm a little late to this, but I have found that in very tight places, this stuff works well. I don't use the supplied brush, but a toothpick puts this stuff into very small places.
I use this a lot with some of the Arduino work, where ever some wires may move and make contact.
The OP's problem seems like this would be perfect for it.
York1 John
the iron only shrinks the part of the heat shrink in contact with the iron. so the iron has to be moved around to shrink the entire length and circumference of the shrink wrap. and it only shrinks so much.
it's not as easy as with a match or hot air gun
gmpullman I've never had a piece of heat shrink melt. I have come across some types of "wire-loom" insulating material that might be confused as heat shrink but this is made of maybe nylon or a type of PVC. Heat shrink is made of polyolefin. Some heat shrink tubing is lined with a goopy sealant for wet locations. This is not a good choice for model RR electronics.
I've never had a piece of heat shrink melt. I have come across some types of "wire-loom" insulating material that might be confused as heat shrink but this is made of maybe nylon or a type of PVC. Heat shrink is made of polyolefin. Some heat shrink tubing is lined with a goopy sealant for wet locations. This is not a good choice for model RR electronics.
gregc where did you get your heat shrink from? i've brought stuff home from work as well as buying some at a hardware store and off ebay.
where did you get your heat shrink from?
i've brought stuff home from work as well as buying some at a hardware store and off ebay.
The Home Depot product is made by Gardner Bender, and the labelling states that the heat shrink tubing is 100% polyolefin.
I see nothing to indicate on any of these three products that the tubing is lined with a goopy sealant for wet locations.
gmpullman I'm just curious as to why your experience with shrink tube is different from the results some of the other members are having. I, too, bought a "crafter's" heat gun and it is ideal for shrinking the tubing, however, if I need to get in close to, say wiring on an LED for a headlight on a delicate, plastic locomotive shell, the heat gun simply throws off too much heat where it isn't wanted and the risk of melting plastic details is very high.
I'm just curious as to why your experience with shrink tube is different from the results some of the other members are having. I, too, bought a "crafter's" heat gun and it is ideal for shrinking the tubing, however, if I need to get in close to, say wiring on an LED for a headlight on a delicate, plastic locomotive shell, the heat gun simply throws off too much heat where it isn't wanted and the risk of melting plastic details is very high.
I have used a heat gun on plenty of wiring projects, but all of my wiring projects have been performed on the workbench or on the chassis. Even then, I use a piece of styrene sheet to protect surrounding areas. I only want the heat coming out of the gun to reach the heat shrink tubing.
If I need to get in close to, say wiring on an LED for a headlight on a delicate, plastic locomotive shell, I would no sooner use a soldering iron than I would use a heat gun. In the rare instance where I have needed to do that, for example when replacing those godawful incandescents on an Athearn Genesis, I just use something like Aleene's Tacky Glue to protect bare wiring.
For those of you who don't think that a soldering iron applied directly to heat shrink tubing won't melt the tubing into a gooey mess, consider Randy Rinker's reply in that link that Ed provided.
rrinker This is where a true variable temperature soldering station comes in handy - if I turn mine down, it will shrink the tube without melting it all over the tip in a gooey mess like happens with an ordinary soldering iron.
This is where a true variable temperature soldering station comes in handy - if I turn mine down, it will shrink the tube without melting it all over the tip in a gooey mess like happens with an ordinary soldering iron.
This is what happened to the OP.
crossthedog I heated it up with the soldering iron after I slipped it over the joint. It didn't shrink a lot but it gummed up my iron tip and got very goopy.
I heated it up with the soldering iron after I slipped it over the joint. It didn't shrink a lot but it gummed up my iron tip and got very goopy.
tstage I use the barrel of the soldering iron to melt heat shrink tubing. Works great. Yes, NEVER use a soldering iron tip for anything other than soldering. You want the plating on the tip to always remain shiny. Any pitted plating or any foreign material on the plating will not transfer the heat evenly between the iron and the object being soldered; resulting in a poor solder joint. Tom
I use the barrel of the soldering iron to melt heat shrink tubing. Works great.
Yes, NEVER use a soldering iron tip for anything other than soldering. You want the plating on the tip to always remain shiny. Any pitted plating or any foreign material on the plating will not transfer the heat evenly between the iron and the object being soldered; resulting in a poor solder joint.
Tom, yes I agree, the barrel does work good.
I can not say NEVER. I had jobs that only the tip was the only part to fit the location to do the soldering and heat shrink work needed and had to be used.
I also use fully plated and non-plated tips. Good clean solder joints with both.
The pitted plating and foreign material on the tip and wrong heat is the failure of many a soldered joint, you can add movement of the joint before solder is ''set'' also.
Bob, PC101
gregc richhotrain the tubing will gum up the iron tip as the tubing "melts". none of the heat shrink i've ever used melts, it shrinks.
richhotrain the tubing will gum up the iron tip as the tubing "melts".
none of the heat shrink i've ever used melts, it shrinks.
I have never melted/destroyed heat shrink tubeing by touching it with my wiped cleaned soldering pencil. Sometimes I do just hold the tip and sometimes the back at the threaded end of the tip close to the heat shrink. I have never used a heat gun to shrink tubeing in model railroading projects.
My adjustable heat gun has done wonders on drying paint and load damaging gondolas. I have also used a soldering iron/pencil to make the same load damaging effects on gondola sides.