richhotrainbut it is elegant
AblebakercharlieAgreed!!
Thanks guys.
I do that at the workbench to try to make under-the-layout work less stressful and time consuming.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
So here is the ultimate way to control a Tortoise machine.
This circuit uses two ice cube relays, allows as many control locations as you want,each with lighted pushbuttons that indcate position, and provides lots of high current contacts for power routing and powered frogs.
Then the concept can be used for all sorts of one button route control for wyes, crossovers, yards, junctions, etc.
The indicator lights can be powered by the pushbutton circuit for less wiring, or by the switch machine circuit if you feel you need "proof" of action.
These circuits will return unused turnouts in a complex interlocking to their default position, and will always return turnouts to their default postion on start up.
Other options allow a dispatcher to lock out local operators, drive signal aspects, and actually have working interlocking where turnouts cannot be thrown while trains are inside the interlocking.
Sheldon
richhotrain...but it is elegant.
Agreed!!
SeeYou190 It is a convenience, but it is not necessary. -Kevin
It is a convenience, but it is not necessary.
Rich
Alton Junction
crossthedogWhat is the unnecessary convenience... splicing? Or do you mean using the terminal block? What is the convenience gained here?
I solder all the wires to the Tortoise on the bench, then run them to the barrier terminal strip. This allows me to easily make all my under-layout connections to the easy-to-reach barrier strip rather than to the Tortoise.
Ok, I get it. We're just basically swapping in a screw-post environmnet for a soldered joint one by installing the power distro block between the Tortoise and whatever. Good call.
Thanks both of you.
Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.
crossthedogDave, not sure what you mean about away from the layout and the easy polarity switching. I assume in the first case, you mean you'd solder wires to all the Tortoise pads before intalling it and connect them to the block? And then you change wires on the block (instead of on the pads) if you guessed wrong on the polarity you needed? If that's what you meant, I can see it, yes.
Hi Matt,
That is exactly what I meant. You can solder all the wires to the Tortoise at your workbench and there is no need to solder under the layout (at least for the Tortoises).
My old club used this type of connector strip instead of the screw down block that Kevin showed. They are available on eBay.
They are less expensive and they don't need to be mounted, but you can if you want to. If you don't mount them, you don't have to worry about the length of the wire that is soldered to the Tortoise. My club used 8" lengths for all the wires soldered to the Tortoises. That gives you enough wire to work with comfortably. One other advantage is that you can cut them to whatever number of connectors you need. In the case of the Tortoises we cut them down to just 8 connectors.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
SeeYou190An uneccessary convenience I do it to attach all the Tortoise wires I am going to use to a terminal block.
Similarly...
hon30critterI second the use of a terminal strip when connecting your Tortoises. Terminal strips allow all of the soldering to be done away from the layout, and they make polarity changes really easy. The ones that Kevin is showing give you really solid contact regardless of wire size.
@Dave, not sure what you mean about away from the layout and the easy polarity switching. I assume in the first case, you mean you'd solder wires to all the Tortoise pads before intalling it and connect them to the block? And then you change wires on the block (instead of on the pads) if you guessed wrong on the polarity you needed? If that's what you meant, I can see it, yes.
The kind of block Kevin shows is the kind I have used before and I really like them. One problem I encountered is that I bought a bulk order of spade connectors and they didn't fit between the walls on the block. I had to file each one down until it fit. I suppose I didn't have to use connectors at all -- could have just hooked the wire around the screw, but I find it difficult and unsatisfying to have wires hooked around screw shafts. They always seem to squish away in an undesirable way.
Thanks,
-Matt
I second the use of a terminal strip when connecting your Tortoises. Terminal strips allow all of the soldering to be done away from the layout, and they make polarity changes really easy.
The ones that Kevin is showing give you really solid contact regardless of wire size. If you are using the white nylon style of terminal strip, bend the smaller wires back on themselves to make sure the screws will grab the wire, and give each wire a good pull to make sure it is secure in the strip.
you could use an edge connector on the tortoise machine, but they seem pricey
soldering just the 2 end wires isn't too much work. adding short wires and using small (gray) wire nuts would make things more convenient since to the final length of wires doesn't need to be know when installing and makes it easier to reposition or replace.
a higher layout makes it easier to work on (we sit on chairs under the layout).
on the current project, 8-conductor wires are soldered onto the machine before installing. but i've had to resolder some after installing because of broken wires (probably wrong wire size using stripper)
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
An uneccessary convenience I do it to attach all the Tortoise wires I am going to use to a terminal block.
But now that I think more about it, splicing might just be a lot easier.
gregcthe blue/orange wires may need to be swapped on one machine
@Rich, I'm not putting the wires through the holes. I tin the little metal pads and I tin the ends of the wires, and then I just lay the wire down on the pad, heat it just for a moment, and the solder joins them nicely.
Since I wanted to do my soldering "above board" as it were, and not have to use a soldering gun over my head, I figured I'd lay both tortoises out and solder everything EXCEPT the last connection of the second Tortoise to the 1 and 8 pads of the first. Then plug in my bus, throw the DPDT and see which way the throw-wire moves. I'm very good with spatial relations, so if I'm careful I can get them oriented correctly and then solder them, so I can put the whole wired ensemble under the table and screw their bases down.
crossthedog @Kevin. Thanks. Your diagram shows me something I was wondering about, which is that I can double up connections on one of the Tortoise's 1 and 8 posts. I wasn't sure about that. It would save me having to splice.
@Kevin. Thanks. Your diagram shows me something I was wondering about, which is that I can double up connections on one of the Tortoise's 1 and 8 posts. I wasn't sure about that. It would save me having to splice.
Splicing is no big deal. Remove about 1/2" of insulation from each wire and twist the wires together - - no solder required. Either heat shrink the wire joint or just wrap a piece of electrical tape around it to protect against shorts.
gregc just remember that the polarity of the machines may not be the same so that they are both normal/diverging and the blue/orange wires may need to be swapped on one machine
just remember that the polarity of the machines may not be the same so that they are both normal/diverging and the blue/orange wires may need to be swapped on one machine
SeeYou190
SeeYou190This one shows the same thing, but it is a bit sloppy.
Also, I'm fixin' to order a handful of those Carling reversing on/on DPDTs from Grainger that you alerted me to earlier (maybe in this thread but who knows... it's gotten too long for me to navigate anymore). They're just the thing. Thanks for the tip.
[Edited to fix goofs]
crossthedog richhotrain Wire the single DPDT with two wires to the DC power source. Wire the X-pattern on the DPDT. Wire the center terminals on the DPDT as the power source for the Tortoises. Now wire the Tortoises on terminals 1 and 8 and connect those four wires to the two wires extending off the center terminals of the DPDT. That's it. @Rich. Comme ça?
richhotrain Wire the single DPDT with two wires to the DC power source. Wire the X-pattern on the DPDT. Wire the center terminals on the DPDT as the power source for the Tortoises. Now wire the Tortoises on terminals 1 and 8 and connect those four wires to the two wires extending off the center terminals of the DPDT. That's it.
@Rich. Comme ça?
Your diagram is correct.
This one shows the same thing, but it is a bit sloppy.
richhotrainWire the single DPDT with two wires to the DC power source. Wire the X-pattern on the DPDT. Wire the center terminals on the DPDT as the power source for the Tortoises. Now wire the Tortoises on terminals 1 and 8 and connect those four wires to the two wires extending off the center terminals of the DPDT. That's it.
crossthedog richhotrain Are you asking how to wire two Tortoises to a single DPDT at just one location? Yes. The layout is small. I don't need to be throwing it from afar. I'll be standing right there. But it would be cool if one switch could throw both turnouts at once. I already have a two wires strung for a bus and they work fine on singletons, but why put two DPDTs in at a crossover if I can throw the whole thing with one? See the discussing "upthread" about this. -Matt
richhotrain Are you asking how to wire two Tortoises to a single DPDT at just one location?
Yes. The layout is small. I don't need to be throwing it from afar. I'll be standing right there. But it would be cool if one switch could throw both turnouts at once. I already have a two wires strung for a bus and they work fine on singletons, but why put two DPDTs in at a crossover if I can throw the whole thing with one? See the discussing "upthread" about this.
Wire the single DPDT with two wires to the DC power source. Wire the X-pattern on the DPDT. Wire the center terminals on the DPDT as the power source for the Tortoises.
Now wire the Tortoises on terminals 1 and 8 and connect those four wires to the two wires extending off the center terminals of the DPDT.
That's it.
richhotrainAre you asking how to wire two Tortoises to a single DPDT at just one location?
crossthedog He clarifies near the end there that this is NOT a method for wiring two Tortoises to a single DPDT, as for a crossover where we would always want both turnouts thrown together. Is there in fact a way to do that?
He clarifies near the end there that this is NOT a method for wiring two Tortoises to a single DPDT, as for a crossover where we would always want both turnouts thrown together.
Is there in fact a way to do that?
gregcjust wire the 2 switch machines in parallel (with proper polarity).
I'm going to go study wiring on wikipedia to learn how to wire my Tortoises in parallel, but if you or anyone felt like drawing a picture of it, I learn best visually and it would get me back on the road sooner. (Weird, because I'm normally all words and metaphors).
crossthedogthis is NOT a method for wiring two Tortoises to a single DPDT, as for a crossover where we would always want both turnouts thrown together.
just wire the 2 switch machines in parallel (with proper polarity).
i see no reason why this wouldn't work with reversing switches. you might want to control a crossover from multiple locations?
hon30critterHere is the wiring diagram showing how to wire a Tortoise for control with two DPDT toggle switches: I have added LED indicators to the circuit. These are not true signal indications. They only show which way the turnout is thrown. I suggest using various coloured wires so you can keep things straight when connecting the toggle switches. Just to clarify, this is not a diagram for controlling a crossover with two Tortoises, although the same thing could be applied to control a crossover with two toggles.
Any help from Dave or anyone, much appreciated.
Edit: Dave's diagram didn't paste, for some reason. But it's back on page 2.
crossthedogDo the holes (and the wires) go all the way through these Wagos
No, the cavity for the wire is closed. You do have to strip wires they are not "IDCs" (Insulation Displacement Connectors).
Lever up releases wires, lever down locks them in place. There is a small "test port" so you can access the conductor with a meter probe without disconnecting the circuit.
Regards, Ed
@Kevin, I'm confused about something. Do the holes (and the wires) go all the way through these Wagos (as with "suitcase connectors") or do you have to strip the wire ends and insert them? It looks like the Wagos are maybe a better version of the orange push-in connectors in my picture, but the same mechanical principal, is that right? I'd be grateful if you or Ed could clarify that.