While placing one of my DCC steam locomotives on the layout, it got a static shock when I accidentedly set it in one of my crossover frogs, and now it is dead. I like to see what I can do to fix it, but I'm not sure what needs replacing. Do I need to replace the motor of my engine, or the motherboard along with the DCC decoder itself? I recently replaced the old board with a new one (Decoder Buddy V5) as well as a new decoder (Soundtraxx ECO-21PNEM), and I'm unsure if it's those components that needs replacing or the motor. Or, if they ALL need replacing.
My locomotive is an old BACHMANN HO SCALE PERE MARQUETTE #1225 BERKSHIRE - DCC ON BOARD, modified with the new motherboard and DCC decoder mentioned above.
You might have better luck getting informed responses if this was posted in the Electronics and DCC section of this Forum.
I would say that I think it is extremely unlikely that the motor was destroyed or even damaged by this "static shock" incident. It MIGHT be that the decoder was. However, I also know that it is often possible to revive what seems to be a dead-duck decoder (DDD) by reverting to factory default settings of the configuration variables (CVs). If that works, and if you programmed anything special you'd then have to start over and do it again, which is why keeping notes on each engine when programming other than the factory settings is a good idea. In any event I would not be too quick to conclude that things were destroyed and need to be replaced.
The NMRA webpages have this discussion which might be helpful
sr201402_dcc.pdf (nmra.org)
https://www.nmra.org/sites/default/files/sr201402_dcc.pdf
Dave Nelson
If you are on carpet give the carpet a light spray with Downy fabric softener about once a week to kill the static buildup. Mel Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California Aging is not for wimps.
I'm with Dave, I think only thing it might have hurt or affected would be the decoder itself. It could be OK and as suggested just need a re-set. If you haven't, maybe try reading a CV? If that reads, it might be OK.
BTW I doubt it was "static shock" since you said you placed the engine on a track frog, more likely it was a short circuit. Unlike DC layouts, DCC has a constant 14 volts or so (AC) on the track. If it's only shorted out for a second that usually won't fry the decoder, but if you let it sit there longer it might have wrecked it.
VukSolnow it is dead.
That stinks.
Sorry for your bad luck, and I hope you can get it resolved.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
You've either scrambled the decoder's memory, or the discharge damaged something in the decoder. ESD is devious, it can do immense damage the first time, or small, incremental amounts over an number of times.
You should try a decoder reset first.
I had a problem like this once. An 0-6-0 steam engine went over a 30-degree crossing from Atlas I had recently installed and something shorted out. This was not a derailment but rather a defect in the crossing, which I replaced with a Walthers model. I took the engine to my LHS, where the owner had a QSI decoder programmer and was able to slowly bring the engine back to life.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
betamax You've either scrambled the decoder's memory, or the discharge damaged something in the decoder. ESD is devious, it can do immense damage the first time, or small, incremental amounts over an number of times. You should try a decoder reset first.
Alton Junction
You might try a decoder reset first. A bit of a long shot, but it might work.
I don't know what Soundtraxx return policy is but worth checking out.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
dknelson You might have better luck getting informed responses if this was posted in the Electronics and DCC section of this Forum. I would say that I think it is extremely unlikely that the motor was destroyed or even damaged by this "static shock" incident. It MIGHT be that the decoder was. However, I also know that it is often possible to revive what seems to be a dead-duck decoder (DDD) by reverting to factory default settings of the configuration variables (CVs). If that works, and if you programmed anything special you'd then have to start over and do it again, which is why keeping notes on each engine when programming other than the factory settings is a good idea. In any event I would not be too quick to conclude that things were destroyed and need to be replaced. The NMRA webpages have this discussion which might be helpful sr201402_dcc.pdf (nmra.org) https://www.nmra.org/sites/default/files/sr201402_dcc.pdf Dave Nelson
I actually did try to reset the decoder on my programming track, but when I tried to input the CV, it wasn't able to read it. Heck, it wasn't able to read any of the decoders CV numbers and inputs at all. So I don't think factory reseting it couldn't work.
I was able to use an altimeter to see if any voltage was going into my engine. And all the soldering pads on the decoder buddy motherboard was functioning, except for the motor pads. I think the short circuit killed those pads.
Though, I'm unsure if the short circuit also affected the DCC decoder itself, and not just short circuited the moderboard. If it's just an issue with the motherboard, I could always replace it but the DCC decoder itself is another story entirely. Again, I wasn't able to get a reading on any of my locomotive's CV inputs at all. No matter what I do.
When you do a decoder reset, wait a minute and then cycle the track power. The decoder needs that to complete the process. Also, read the instructions for what you need to do for a reset, as some decoders do things differently.
Lastspikemike The spark you saw was not a static electricity spark.
The spark you saw was not a static electricity spark.
VukSolI actually did try to reset the decoder on my programming track, but when I tried to input the CV, it wasn't able to read it. Heck, it wasn't able to read any of the decoders CV numbers and inputs at all. So I don't think factory reseting it couldn't work....
It's not unusual for some systems to not be able to read Soundtraxx decoders (at least this used to be the case, I don't know if Soundtraxx has fixed this issue in more recent decoders or not). If your system can't read the decoder it can still reset it (if the decoder is ok). Make sure you check the reset for your particular decoder, many use programming CV8 to 8, but not all.
VukSol...And all the soldering pads on the decoder buddy motherboard was functioning, except for the motor pads. I think the short circuit killed those pads...
The decoder buddy appears to just pass the motor connnections through, so unless the traces were actually burned up I don't think it could kill those pads. It's easy enough to check the traces, just check for continuity between the correct decoder socket pins and the pads.
Lastspikemike Normally you cannot just read the CV values in a decoder...
Normally you cannot just read the CV values in a decoder...
Normally, you CAN just read the CV values in a decoder. Most DCC systems and most decoders now support that ability. Some decoders, usually sound decdoers, do have issues, and Soundtraxx is one brand known to, but with most DCC system/decoder combinations you can read the CV values.
Lastspikemike... There are also software programs that read decoders. If you have one of those it should tell you if the decoder can be programmed or is kaput.
There are also software programs that read decoders. If you have one of those it should tell you if the decoder can be programmed or is kaput.
The DCC system has to have the abiliity to read CVs for the software package to be able to do it - no software is going to add that ability to a system that doesn't already have it.
LastspikemikeNormally you cannot just read the CV values in a decoder.
Try again, Mike. In programming mode you can (and should) read CVs. If you cannot read your decoder's CVs then:
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Lastspikemike There are also software programs that read decoders. If you have one of those it should tell you if the decoder can be programmed or is kaput.
What kind of software programs are there to read my decoders? And won't I need some kind of connector to actually connect my decoder to said computer software?
Lee
The system I'm using is an NCE Power Cab and the connection panel that comes with it. For the programming track, I'm using an NCE 226 AUTO SW Power Cab Programming track switch panel for my separate, on a side track with insulated rail joiners. The DCC decoder thats involved in this electrical short circuit is a Soundtraxx ECO-21PNEM, installed in my Bachman HO scale Berkshire Pere Marquette 1225 model. I'm running my trains on Atlas code 100 track.
Here's a picture of my controller and what's happening when I'm trying to read the CVs. At least CV 8 and 30.
VukSol The system I'm using is an NCE Power Cab and the connection panel that comes with it. For the programming track, I'm using an NCE 226 AUTO SW Power Cab Programming track switch panel for my separate, on a side track with insulated rail joiners. The DCC decoder thats involved in this electrical short circuit is a Soundtraxx ECO-21PNEM, installed in my Bachman HO scale Berkshire Pere Marquette 1225 model. I'm running my trains on Atlas code 100 track. Here's a picture of my controller and what's happening when I'm trying to read the CVs. At least CV 8 and 30.
Have you tried programming? You do not have to read the decoder to program it. Again, some sound decoders have issues with some systems, so if you haven't, try to reset the decoder by programming the appropriate CV. From the PowerCab manual:
"Decoders that draw too much power from the program track can also cause this message. Most sound decoders draw large amounts of current. The Power CabTM can supply the NMRA limit of ¼ Amp of current for initial ‘charging’ of these decoders and 220mA of continuous current for normal program track operations. If the decoder exceeds these capabilities you will get the error or a short circuit message. Press ENTER to continue. You will probably still be able to program by ignoring the error. Press ENTER, then proceed in the usual manner."
Yeup. I did tried programming it. I programmed it as usual, but it sadly doesn't work.
It is unlikely that the motor has been affected by this.
When you say that you tried programming it - did you actually get an error message, something like "no decoder"?
When I get an electrical problem, the first thing I do is think about what changes I did recently. In your case, you said you installed a new board and decoder. Did you double-check your wiring? Maybe something got loose or unsoldered.
Simon
Most, if not all, DCC systems that include a Programming Track can read CVs on the Programming Track. That is definitely the case with my NCE DCC command station, and I know that it works for higher end Digitrax DCC systems as well based upon friends experience.
Some DCC systems, including my NCE DCC system, cannot read CVs on sound decoders without a separate Programming Track Booster. This is because these DCC systems are underpowered out of the box. It is a not a fault of Soundtraxx decoders, for example.
When the display on an NCE cab shows "cannot read CV", this is either because the decoder is not seated properly, is wired incorrectly, or is fried. Other DCC systems may use different terminology for the same issues.
Rich
richhotrain...Some DCC systems, including my NCE DCC system, cannot read CVs on sound decoders without a separate Programming Track Booster. This is because these DCC systems are underpowered out of the box. It is a not a fault of Soundtraxx decoders, for example...
It's not because these systems are "underpowered" and it is a fault of the decoder. The programming track on most systems is intentionally current limited to help prevent damage to miswired decoder installations, as per NMRA Standards and Recommended Practices 9.2.3:
" Service Mode operations should be performed in an environment with limited energy to prevent damage to decoders during programming. For the purposes of this STANDARD, limited energy is defined as 250 mA, sustained for more than 100 ms. A programmer may further limit the energy via a current limiting resistor, if it is clearly documented that not all compatible DCC devices may be programmed by this programmer."
Underpowered as in the inability to read CVs on sound decoders which require more power.
VukSolWhat kind of software programs are there to read my decoders? And won't I need some kind of connector to actually connect my decoder to said computer software?
One program is JMRI DecoderPro, running on a computer with (ideally, for much NCE equipment, a 'legacy' serial port rather than the purportedly more 'modern' USB interface). You can start learning about it here:
https://www.jmri.org/help/en/manual/DecoderPro/Start_DCC_Hardware.shtml
As noted, there may be circumstances where 'reading' a CV requires more power or sophistication than 'writing' a CV to the device. There may be circumstances where the values in registers may be corrupted but can still have correct data written to them via 'normal' entry procedure.
It makes sense to find the correct CV settings for a particular decoder and at least try to re-enter them. I believe JMRI helps facilitate this.
VukSol The system I'm using is an NCE Power Cab and the connection panel that comes with it. For the programming track, I'm using an NCE 226 AUTO SW Power Cab Programming track switch panel for my separate, on a side track with insulated rail joiners.
The system I'm using is an NCE Power Cab and the connection panel that comes with it. For the programming track, I'm using an NCE 226 AUTO SW Power Cab Programming track switch panel for my separate, on a side track with insulated rail joiners.
wjstixIt could be OK and as suggested just need a re-set. If you haven't, maybe try reading a CV? If that reads, it might be OK.
my NCE powercab can't read CVs, but can read manufacturer IDs.
wouldn't that be good enough to determine if the decoder is functioning?
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
I had lots of trouble with SOME locomotives on the program track until I got a program track booster for it. Then no more trouble.
All three of my T55's and a Sunset SP&S 4-8-4 were on that list.
I've got NCE Procab.
Ed
gregcwouldn't that be good enough to determine if the decoder is functioning?
Furthermore there is no gguarantee that there's hidden or subcritical damage that will let go at some subsequent time even if blind programming.
In my opinion the 'sensible' thing would be to swap in both a new decoder and motherboard for testing. I would not be surprised, though, to find the cost of the experiment to be too high for some modelers
ESU-Loksound makes a decoder tester: 53900. It sells for about $42.
Open it up and check your work like someone else suggested. Look closely for unintended shorts that happen when you stuff things together. Someone else suggested a power cycle. For the Tsunami 2, you may have to set the locomotive on the track and turn the power on and then turn the power off. Simply lifting the locomotve may not be good enough. Have you changed CV31 or CV32? Soundtraxx has troubleshooting items on their website you can read. If all else fails email Soundtraxx Support.