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BLI Blueline sound troubleshooting question

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Posted by tstage on Monday, May 31, 2021 9:37 AM

Since I primarily use Loksound & TCS decoders for my DCC installs and have a LokProgrammer I haven't needed to have a decoder pre-loaded with a sound file in a few years now.  That said, Litchfield Station & Tony's Train Exchange are two that have done it for me in the past and are very reputable.

Of the two, I order from Litchfield because of their quick turnaround on shipment (same day or next day), great communication, and VERY reasonable S&H costs ($4 for first-class).  COVID has been the bottleneck on deliveries the past year but that has generally been at my end of the journey.

For the Loksound decoders there are several "plug-in options" and each of those has a 5-digit number for differentiation. The 8-pin NMRA Lok 5 DCC is "58420" and the smaller "micro" version of that is "58810".

I would call either place when ordering to assure that you are getting the correct "prime mover" sound file you want pre-loaded onto your Lok 5 decoder.  And it shouldn't cost anything extra to have the sound file pre-loaded - at least it didn't in the past.  Once installed you then just choose the horn & bell you want with your F7A.

If this will be your first Lok 5 decoder I would recommend downloading the latest Lok 5 Manual (V10 - Apr 2021, at this writing) from the ESU website.  It's very comprehensive and can be a bit intimidating at times.  However, it contains a wealth of information on programming any Lok 5 decoder.

And, if you have any questions on programming, you can always post them here and we'll do our best to answer them.  The ESU website also has a forum group, as well as Groups.io.

HTH...

Tom

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Posted by HudsonRR on Monday, May 31, 2021 6:33 AM
Just one more question. I have searched the internet and found several LocSound 5 decoders for sale, all of them blank with no indication that the sellers would load sound. Could you recommend a dealer who would provide this service?
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Posted by tstage on Sunday, May 30, 2021 10:59 AM

Steve,

Any standard sound decoder will control sound, lights, and motor.  Of the big 3 mentioned earlier, here's some specifics...

  1. Loksound 5 DCC or Loksound 5 DCC Direct (board-type decoder w/holes in the PCB board for clips) - Either sound file EMD 16-567B (S0746) or EMD 16-567BC (S0711) should work.  You'll need to order the sound file "pre-loaded" from the online vendor using the correct article number.  (The article number is the 5-digit number above in parentheses that starts with an "S")  Otherwise, your Lok 5 decoder will arrive "blank" with no sound file installed.  If you want full-flexibility from a Lok 5, the LokProgrammer gives you the ability to download & install ANY sound file from the ESU website.  And, along with fully-programming your Loksound decoders, it will also allow you to upgrade the firmware of a Lok decoder (via the Internet), as well as substitute any individual sound in a sound "slot" for a different sound.  The firmware for the LokProgrammer is upgradable via the Internet, as well.  Obviously, a LokProgrammer is a wiser investment if you 1) plan to install a number of Lok 5 decoders in your locomotives...or 2) make Loksound your de facto sound decoder.
  2. TCS Wow101-Diesel 1530 - The various sound files are already pre-loaded for you so all you have to do is choose the appropriate primer mover, horn, bell, lighting, etc. for your prototype using your DCC throttle; allowing for greater flexibility.  You can also choose a variety of harnesses for quicker installation - i.e. if your 8-pin NMRA socket is still functional and/or present.
  3. Soundtraxx Tsunami2 TSU-2200 or Tsunami2 TSU-PNP8 (board-type decoder) - I do not have any of these decoders so someone else can chime in who has experience with them.  Like the Loksound 5s, you'll need to order the decoder from the vendor with the specific sound file pre-loaded that's appropriate for your F7A.

HTH some...

Tom

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, May 30, 2021 7:17 AM

This thread may be helpful to you.

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/t/258359.aspx

I will leave it to others to suggest a sound decoder, but tstage listed the best of them in an earlier reply.

Ed (gpullman) has done the conversion. He talks about it in that linked thread.

Rich

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Posted by HudsonRR on Sunday, May 30, 2021 6:47 AM
As this will be my first DCC component rebuild, I would kindly ask for your recommendations as to which DCC decoder and sound I should use. The loco is a BLI EMD F7A, # 5884, BlueLine series. Would hope that the replacement decoder would be able to control sound. lights and movement. I looked at Digitrax decoder selector and it just recommended another DZ series decoder. BLI has not yet responded to request for information.
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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, May 30, 2021 5:36 AM

As this thread progressed, it became apparent that the original owner hardwired a motor decoder to the Blueline wiring. Out of the box, the Blueline is equipped with a sound and lights board with an NMRA 8-pin plug for a motor decoder. Had the original owner installed a DZ123PS with the plug instead of hardwiring the DZ123 without a plug, there wouldn't have been any issues.

The Blueline can operate in DCC with two decoders. The key is to program both decoders with the same long address. The issue that I ran into with my pair of Blueline F7s was consisting the two together. I wound up programming both locos and all four decoders with the same long address.

I agree with Tom that at this point, rip out the Blueline sound and lights board and install a sound decoder or just buy a new loco with sound.

Rich

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Posted by tstage on Saturday, May 29, 2021 6:12 PM

Steve,

The more cost-effective route would be to just completely remove the BLI sound decoder and upgrade to a single DCC manufacturer's sound decoder for controlling both your sound & motor-control.  Any of the big 3 - i.e. Loksound, TCS, and Soundtraxx - will have an EMD 16-567B prime mover sound file that should make your F7 both operate and sound great.

Tom

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Posted by HudsonRR on Saturday, May 29, 2021 5:40 PM
Excitement today on the RR. Reconnected the DZ123 and it made the lights work and then started smoking. So I guess my options now are to completely update the sound board and the decoder completely or just purchase another DCC F7A. As I haver never had the experience or rebuilding a locomotive, that option might be interesting, if not somewhat frustrating. Thank you all for all of your input and assistance. It is truly appreciated. Steve
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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, May 29, 2021 10:34 AM

HudsonRR
BLI documentation recommends a Digitrax DZ143PS decoder. Currently, a DZ123 is installed. Might need to upgrade the decoder. 

The advantage of the DZ143PS is that it has the NMRA 8-pin plug attached to it. But, since the DZ123 was hardwired, you would need to reconnect the four Blueline wires. A photo or two would definitely help.

Rich

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, May 29, 2021 9:51 AM

HudsonRR
Would love to send a picture of this, but attempts to include in this message have failed.

Kalmbach explicitly disabled any ability to post inline or embedded image material here (perhaps originally to promote their now-deprecated member image-gallery 'feature', but now for copyright and proper use concerns).

The way to include an image is to put the image on a photo-hosting site that can assign it a valid URL, and then either provide that URL as a link, provide a link using a feature provided on the hosting site to do so (we have had several threads over the years to do so, including stickies), or use the Kalmbach 'photo' tool (button above the post text-entry window next to the chain links).

If you pick a particular hosting site, members here can give you detailed steps to follow; some may volunteer via PM to put the image up for you if you e-mail it to them.

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Posted by HudsonRR on Saturday, May 29, 2021 9:10 AM
BLI documentation recommends a Digitrax DZ143PS decoder. Currently, a DZ123 is installed. Might need to upgrade the decoder.
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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, May 29, 2021 8:50 AM

The Digitrax DZ123 is a 7 wire decoder without an NMRA 8-pin connector. The red and black wires connect to the power pickups. The orange and gray wires connect to the motor. The white, blue and yellow wires are for the lights.

When I converted my Blueline locos to DCC, I used the NCE N14IP decoder which had the NMRA 8-pin plug, so installation was easy. You will need to trace those four Blueline wires (two black, two white) to determine which two control the power pickup and which two control the motor. Then, you need to find the correct lighting wires on the chassis.

Rich

 

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Posted by HudsonRR on Saturday, May 29, 2021 7:44 AM
I think the DZ123 is wired incorrectly to the sound board. There are only 2 white wires and 2 black wires that connect the board to the DZ123. The black wires run from the red and orange DZ123 wires to the board while the white wires run from the white and black DZ123 wires. This leaves the 4 internal DZ123 wires unconnected. Would love to send a picture of this, but attempts to include in this message have failed. Please feel free to email directly at gtlakes5@yahoo.com if would would like a picture of how this is wired. Thanks, Steve
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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, May 29, 2021 5:19 AM

HudsonRR

No sound but the headlight works, and seems to get brighter, the faster the loco moves.  No mars light or number plates lights work.   

Not sure why the lights get brighter as the loco moves faster in DCC mode. That sounds like DC mode performance.

Function key F7 controls the Mars light.

Not sure why the number boards are not lighted. Need to research that more.

Rich

 

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, May 29, 2021 5:09 AM

gmpullman

At a minimum you could jumper pins 1 + 8  and  4 + 5 to get the motor to work.

A short length of brass wire or even a paper clip might work. "Some" dummy plugs simply look like three-leg bent staples (2 req.).

The OP does have motion with the DCC decoder enabled, so I assume that he will have motion in DC. Too bad there is no dummy plug in the box because I was hoping to see if the sound (and lights) work in DC.

Rich

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Posted by gmpullman on Friday, May 28, 2021 9:06 PM

At a minimum you could jumper pins 1 + 8  and  4 + 5 to get the motor to work.

A short length of brass wire or even a paper clip might work. "Some" dummy plugs simply look like three-leg bent staples (2 req.).

More to see here:

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/t/274494.aspx

Good luck, Ed

 

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, May 28, 2021 8:50 PM

The fact that both decoders are unlocked means that you should be able to program both decoders simultaneously.

If you reattach the Digitrax decoder, both locos should have an address of 03 since you previously programmed that address in OPS mode on the main. To be sure of that, first try to run the loco using the prior long address. The loco should not respond to commands. Then, call up address 03 in OPS mode on the main. Verify that the loco responds to commands.

Reset both decoders simultaneously to factory default using CV8=8. That is the Blueline reset command, and it is also the factory reset on Digitrax decoders. Then, program a new long address which should affect both decoders. See if that works to provide motor power, sound and lights.

Rich

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Posted by HudsonRR on Friday, May 28, 2021 7:57 PM
No such luck, not a "dummy plug" to be found.
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Posted by gmpullman on Friday, May 28, 2021 7:43 PM

HudsonRR
I just disabled the DZ123 by removing it from the loco.

Keep in mind that if you remove the motor decoder you have to replace it with a "dummy" plug that effectively shorts or "jumpers" the rail pickups pins 1-2-8 and 4-5-6, to the motor inputs.

Maybe you did this? Maybe the previous owner put the dummy plug in the box?

Good Luck, Ed

 

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Posted by HudsonRR on Friday, May 28, 2021 7:11 PM
I just disabled the DZ123 by removing it from the loco. I do have a DC portion of my lay out, so I tried it on that. Results are no movement, no lights, no sound.
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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, May 28, 2021 6:39 PM

The fact that CV15 and CV16 both equal zero means that the two decoders are unlocked. That is crucial to programming a Blueline locomotive. If the two decoders were locked, it would be extremely complicated to program both decoders individually.

It is possible that the speaker could be bad. I have no experience with testing speakers to see if they work or are fried. That said, what I would do is to remove or disable the Digitrax decoder and run the loco on a section of DC powered track. Without the Digitrax decoder enabled, the sound should definitely work, as well as the lights, unless the speaker is shot.

Do you have a DC power pack to test the Blueline decoder?

Rich

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Posted by HudsonRR on Friday, May 28, 2021 6:33 PM
This loco was given to me, as I am assembling a D&GRW passenger train. I have not heard a sound from it. The previous owner installed the Digitrax DZ123. Unfortunately, the previous owner is in the train depot is the sky. CV15 = 0 CV16 = 0 The mother board has the following notation written on it, Precision Craft Models, followed by, HO-100-C. Thanks for your help.
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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, May 28, 2021 5:52 PM

OK, before we get too deep into this, let me ask a few basic questions.

From your initial description, it seems that you bought the loco used and the previous owner installed a Digitrax DZ123 decoder.  Correct?

Have you ever got the loco to make sounds?

Can you read the CV values? If you can, what are the values of CV15 and CV16?

Rich

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Posted by HudsonRR on Friday, May 28, 2021 5:50 PM
Could the speaker be fried? How would I test for that possibility?
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Posted by HudsonRR on Friday, May 28, 2021 5:46 PM
Tried changing the address to 03 on the main track. Used the OPs mode. The locomotive moved, headlight worked, but sadly, not a sound could be heard.
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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, May 28, 2021 5:19 PM

Leave the loco on the mainline and change the address to 03. Let us know what happens relative to sound and movement.

Rich

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Posted by HudsonRR on Friday, May 28, 2021 5:17 PM

No sound but the headlight works, and seems to get brighter, the faster the loco moves.  No mars light or number plates lights work.  Any idea how I discover what the address of the light and sound decoder?

 

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, May 28, 2021 5:04 PM

Welcome to the wonderful world of Blueline!

The most important thing about Blueline is that it is a DC locomotive with a sound and lights board "decoder". It can easily be converted to DCC by adding a motion decoder. So, it becomes, in effect, a dual decoder locomotive. To operate effectively, both decoders need to be programmed to the same address.

Let me ask something. Besides no sound, are the lights working? If not, then the sound and light decoder is probably programmed to a different address than the motion decoder.

Rich

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Posted by tstage on Friday, May 28, 2021 5:03 PM

I have one NYC Blueline Niagara that I purchased 10+ years ago.  As I remember it BLI had a "recommended" decoder list of motor-only decoders on their website that they confirmed would "play nice" with the proprietary sound decoders of their Blueline locomotives - i.e. each would work separately but simultaneously when programmed to the same address.

This may be a case where the Digitrax decoder isn't compatible with the Blueline sound decoder.  I would check the BLI website to see if they still have that list posted.  I would imagine, however, that a majority of those recommended decoders on the list are now obsolete.

Tom

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Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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