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Power Cab and Frog Juciers

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  • Member since
    March 2021
  • 6 posts
Power Cab and Frog Juciers
Posted by MarkTO on Friday, March 26, 2021 3:19 PM

I'm building my first DCC layout and well it's been a challenge! I've already managed to fry my NCE Power Cab (not sure how). I've divided my layout into two EB1 track power districts on separate power buss and am running my frog juicers off a separate third bus (to be circuit breaked). So three power bus cable pairs in total. My thinking is that this is a neat, organized approach? But does it make sense? Am I splitting up my Power Cab output into too many Electrical paths for a 2amp system. 

  • Member since
    December 2015
  • From: Shenandoah Valley
  • 7,946 posts
Posted by BigDaddy on Friday, March 26, 2021 6:15 PM

MarkTO
I've already managed to fry my NCE Power Cab (not sure how).

That's disturbing that you don't know why.  The last thread where that happened there was a DC power supply also connected.

The recommendation for a power cab is to put it in the center of your layout.  Say it's 40' long, you run one bus 20' to the left and the other 20' to the right.   Power districts are over rated if you are a solo operarator on a small layout.  However there is no harm in creating power districts.

Frog juicers don't play well with circuit breakers so you would need a 3rd bus.  It's not really the number of pathways, is the number of engines you are going to run and perhaps the length of you layout, which you know and we don't.

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: Nashville, TN area
  • 568 posts
Posted by hardcoalcase on Friday, March 26, 2021 6:47 PM

I have the Power Cab and it works fine with one DCC Specialties PSX-AR for a reversing loop, and two Dual Frog Juicers, each for a separate wye.  Have not had any problems.  For now, all the main bus track is on one circuit, but wired so it can be easily divided into 4 sections for circuit management/breaker purposes. 

Jim

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Western, MA
  • 8,571 posts
Posted by richg1998 on Friday, March 26, 2021 7:25 PM

I have the power cab. NJo idea how you could have fired ut unless a DC power

pack somewhere.

A short will shut the cab down. I know.

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

  • Member since
    March 2021
  • 6 posts
Posted by MarkTO on Saturday, March 27, 2021 8:47 AM

Hi Henry, 

Thanks for you reply. My layout is an 8 x 2.5 foot switching layout. Two trains max and only me operating. And yes I don't know what happened to my Power Cab. I really don't, but had to send it back to NCE for repair. So my plan was to put all the frog juicier on a separate, Tam circuit breaker protected, to make sure they are not impacted by the EB1's. Personally, I now think I jumped before I could swim with all this electronic stuff and have made it more complicated then it need be. That said, I really don't know why I'm plagued with shorts. I'm insulating the electrofrogs and power districts, check for wire connections making contact and and my EB1's won't auto reset (had to buy momentary switches). It's like 4 layouts forward and 4 layouts back lo!

  • Member since
    March 2021
  • 6 posts
Posted by MarkTO on Saturday, March 27, 2021 3:21 PM

nope, not a DC system in sight! The Power Cab is plugged into power bar and that is the only thing plugged into it. My DC owner back has been in a box since starting the switch to the new layout and DCC. So yes, mystified to say the least. The Power Can just boots up then shuts down, even with no track connections. 

  • Member since
    June 2007
  • 8,260 posts
Posted by riogrande5761 on Monday, March 29, 2021 6:32 AM

BigDaddy
Frog juicers don't play well with circuit breakers so you would need a 3rd bus.

Why don't they play nice.  Perhaps maybe settings need changed.

Here is some info regarding that from a forum I cannot name here:


You need circuit breakers with a delay adjustment so the frog juicers trip first. Just set the circuit breaker delay to a longer trip time and the frog juicers will work fine.

From the TAM Valley website:

Trouble with your PSX ciruit breakers shorting faster than the frog juicers?

Older versions of the PSX were slower and the frog juicer would trip before the PSX ciruit breaker. Newer ones are set faster than the frog juicers. You can slow the PSX down by programming it.

Thanks to Larry Puckett and his website DCC Guy for this tip:

"The solution is to slow down the PSX and give the Frog Juicer enough time to do its job. On the PSX set CV55=1 and CV65=128, and the PSX delay should work with the Frog Juicers."

As an added benefit, tuning the PSX using these CV's virtually eliminates the false short detection problem as well. Win-win.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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