I have two Rapido FP7s and a F7B that I need to speed match. I have been reading conflicting statements all over the internet on how to do this. Now I have speed matched locos before, easily with no issues.
Please correct me if I get anything wrong in the following.
If you want to speed match using Vstart, Vmid and Vmax, CVs 2,5,6, on these Loksound decoders, you need to change CV29. I have read conflicting articles on what CV29 should be changed to. What say you.
The "A" units run very, very slow and I would like to speed them up to match the "B" unit, not the other way around.
The "A" units will take 3 seconds to start after the power is applied while the "B" unit takes off instantly. What is the CV to adjust this? I don't mind the delayed start as it is more realistic.
I have done the slow speed thingy (CV54) to the "A" units and you are not supposed to do the slow speed thingy to the "B" unit as it is no longer required.
Thanks for any and all help.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
SO you have 2 different decodres, it appears. The A's sound like they have v4 or Select decoders, given that the BEMF auto tune CV54 works on them. They will use CV 2-6-5 with no special settings. The B sounds like a V5 decoder - which way it works depends on just which v5 decoder Rapido used,. The v5 DCC decoders still have the same CV 2-6-5. The multiprotocol version (which suppports Marklin and all sorts of other stuff that is of no use to DCC users) do not use CV6 and you have to use speed tables to get a non-linear response (they do have CV2 and CV5). The motor start delay, which sounds like it is turned on in the A's, is CV124, bit 2 on the v5 - the default seems to generally be 24 (this is a bitmapped CV like CV29), so if it's 24,25,26,or 27 - add 4 to enable the delay.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Brent, you have V-Mid and V-High mixed up. They aren't 5 and 6 respectively, but the other way around. I know, I know...it's backasswards, but...but whateryagonnado?
Okay, first off, thanks for the help, I think I have it figured out. I got messed up when someone wrote on another forum when he was telling me to use V5 settings for a V4. Once I realized that and with your help, Randy things are good in the speed matching dept.
On the v5 the LOK manual says to turn CV29 to value 0 to enable to speed match using Vstart, Vmid and Vmax, CVs 2,6,5. Is this correct?
From the manual.
file:///C:/Users/Aidan/Downloads/51989_LokSound_5_ESUKG_EN_InstructionManual_Edition-9_eBook_02.pdf
10.2.1. 3-point speed table LokSound 5 DCC, LokSound 5 micro DCC and LokSound 5 L DCC support the NMRA 3-point speed table via CV 2, 5 and 6 also: Enter the start voltage in CV 2 and the maximum speed in CV 5. CV 6 corresponds with the speed at a medium speed step. Thus, you can define a “kink” in the speed curve. This mode is active if bit 4 = 0 in CV 29. The values of the start, mid and maximum speed are dependent on each other. Selecting a mid speed that is lower than the start speed or higher than the maximum speed could lead to some erratic driving performance. Therefore always adhere to the principle: start voltage < mid speed < maximum speed.
I still have not figured out how to turn the delay start on or off. I would prefer to turn the delay on for the "B" unit.
rrinkerThe motor start delay, which sounds like it is turned on in the A's, is CV124, bit 2
Crandell, I learned that CV 5 and 6 were horse backwards as well today earlier when I was watching a Youtube video on how to use a Lokprogrammer, which I don't own. I think these programmers will become must-have standard equipment soon.
Thanks again, I learned something today.
rrinker SO you have 2 different decodres, it appears. The A's sound like they have v4 or Select decoders, given that the BEMF auto tune CV54 works on them. They will use CV 2-6-5 with no special settings.
There was discussion of speed matching between V4-5 on the ESU forum. The V4 came out with a European multiplier of .25 for momentum instead of the NMRA .896. The momentum multiplier is different in Europe than in the US but some European V5 decoders have found their way in the US market.
I don't like to quote someone from another forum and especially since he isn't on this one to defend his opinon, but one of the frequent posters there said that some versions of V4 do not support CV 6. which versions he did not say.
There is a CV calculator, which controls multiple things. I use the Digitrax
If you want a 3 step speed table, the Speed Table (for 28 steps) is disabled according to the calculator.
This last section of the Decoder Pro instructions may be helpful.
https://www.jmri.org/help/en/manual/DecoderPro3/Comp_Speed_Talble.shtml#gotchas
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Not CV29 = 0, that's an invalid value. Bit 4 of CV29 =0. Which is exactly the same as any other decoder when you turn off the 28 step speed table (which is the default on pretty much any decoder).
Possibly the same deal with v4 and with v5 - the multiprotocol versions may not support CV6. It seems European operators do not like 3 step speed control, and prefer only a linear curve (just setting start and max, not using a mid setting) or else going all out and using the full 28 step speed table. They don't run trains the same way operators do this side of the pond. Seems odd to leave out CV6 when all you have to do is not set it, then you get a linear response between whatever you put in CV2 and whatever you put in CV5. But whatever.
CV5 and CV6 are the way they are because CV6 came along later. Originally you had CV2 for start speed, CV3-4 for momentum, and CV5 for top speed. The speeds were then divided out equally for each speed step. CV6 for mid-range speed was eventually added so you could do a non-linear speed set-up, like have your engine run at 30% top speed at 1/2 power and 100% at full speed.
rrinker Not CV29 = 0, that's an invalid value. Bit 4 of CV29 =0
Okay, my brain is fried, how to I get BIT 4 to = 0?
If it helps, when I was trying to speed match, I set cv124 to zero on both locomotives, and set the momentums to zeros. Then once I got the speeds matched, I could adjust those to what I wanted.
I also found cv66 (forward motor trim) and cv95 (reverse motor trim) to actually do more to match speeds on two different decoders than cv 2, 5, or 6.
York1 John
BATMANOkay, my brain is fried, how to I get BIT 4 to = 0?
https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/200537669-CV29-Explained
The same Dave who answered your question in the NCE forum would have done so in the ESU forum. I'm surprised you weren't attacked by the NCE purists
So Henry looking at the link, if I want to turn BIT 4 to 0, I should give CV29 a value of 2?
Okay, so what about the four-digit address? If I want to use four digit address, have 28/128 speed steps and change bit 4, I should make the value of CV29, 34?
I see you are posting on the NCE forum as well.
The standard setting of CV29 as done by the NCE cab is what you want, it's nothing special or different. I'm not even sure why ESU felt the need to call out this - I haven't tried but I don't think CV2-5-6 works on ANY decoder if you enable the speed tables and use the full 28 step speed table. It's wither no 28 step table, and then CV2-5-6 are available, or you use a speed table and the simple 3 step option is not available.
34 is a reasonable value for long address, 28/128 step mode, no 28 step speed table, no Railcom, and no DC. And if you set the address through the menus on the NCE cab, and say no to speed table and no to DC mode, that's exactly what you will get.
Thanks, Randy, I think I finally got it after a day of reading. A day off makes things so much clearer when the brain isn't fried.
I think I am going to grab an old laptop from the kid's pile and try Decoder Pro. I kept getting error messages from their website today. Starting in grade 3 both kids got new laptops in school every two years and we were allowed to keep the old ones. I should be able to find something to take to the trainroom.
I feel less a after hitting the books. Lots still to learn.
Using DecoderPro is always a good idea! Just be sure to allow the time for it to read everything. Using my new Digitrax PR4 - which is much faster than my old PR3 - sound decoders generally take a few minutes to read. But it took about half an hour to read an entire ESU sound decoder due to all the settings / options. But it was worth it, was able to figure out what I needed to adjust the issue I was having (break squeal not coming on).