Was told I need to isolate the motor even though it is DCC ready so deconder dose not smoke on derailment. To do this would Kaplon tape on the bottom and a nylon screw (to replace the existing screw) work and if so what size screw.
You also need to isolate the motor brush. The Digitrax website has a pretty thorough discussion of this entire issue and two suggested workarounds. Here is what Digitrax has to say:
There is a potential problem using the DCC socket on the Life Like Proto2000 S-1. While the trucks and track pick-ups are isolated from the frame, there is a brass grounding lug attached to the motor's lower brush cap which makes electrical contact between the lower motor brush and the frame. As a result if the wheels come in contact with the frame a short occurs and the decoder may be damaged!
We recommend one of two work-arounds.
1) If you choose to use the 8 pin DCC plug, isolate the bottom motor brush from the frame of the locomotive by removing the grounding lug from the motor's lower brush cap. Be sure to reinstall the square plastic insulator under the lower brush cap after removing the brass grounding lug. Place a small square of electrical tape in the frame recess below the lower motor brush cap as an insulator. Then run a new orange wire from the DCC socket to the lower motor brush cap and remove the existing orange wire that runs from the socket to the front lug under the headlight.
2) If you use a wired decoder, the motor will still have to be isolated from the frame as in step 1 above. Once this modification is made, install the wired decoder as usual.
Now, the S-1 motor is, in fact, insulated from the frame. The metal screw that holds the motor's frame to the loco's frame is not a problem-you don't need to replace it with a nylon screw. The grounding circuit is formed by the brass grounding lug under the motor's lower brush cap rubbing on the frame. Remove the lug, remove the original orange wire from the frame to the DCC socket, run a new orange wire to the motor's lower brush cap and you have a completely isolated motor.
Rich
Alton Junction
I should add that Randy has commented on this issue a few times in recent threads. Take a look at those comments as well.
Personally, I had three Proto 2000 S1 switchers at one time. Before I learned about the infamous orange wire, one of my S1s suffered a derailment and fried the decoder. At first, I was baffled until I learned about the grounding issue with the orange wire. I fixed all three Proto 2000 S1 switchers myself, not a big deal.
Ok, so if I isolate motor, we are fine. So to do that I remove wire from frame and relocate to motor brush and remove or insolate grounding lug. Next where on the digitrax site did you find this info ?
rrebell Ok, so if I isolate moter, we are fine.
Ok, so if I isolate moter, we are fine.
Sorry to be so dense, this stuff just baffles me, kinda like advanced math, which I can not do even though I have college degrees, can't spell either, if you haven't notices but I can build a house.
I went searching for photos that I took when I performed the fix on the Proto 2000 S1, but I cannot find them. I no longer own any Proto 2000 S1s.
If you can remove the shell and photo the side of the chassis where the orange wire is located, we can walk you through the fix.
Another question, if the orange wire is the problem, can't you just clip it at the frame and run it to the grounding lug and insolate the lug in theory (I relize when I get in there there may be space issues but If this is true, then I understand). Feel like an in high school again, did terrible till I learned to fake it, then I got great grades. Unfortinatly you can't fake electronics.
This might not apply to the OP. One time I had to tap for 2-56 screw. The motor screw was metric. I had to file the frame smooth because the tap raised the metal some and would have punctured the Kapton.I tapped ther motor also. Just enough.
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Randy (rrinker) had a pictoral of the S1 conversion on his website. Perhaps he'll share the link to that if it's still up and runnning.
Tom
[Edit: I found Randy's website link in his signature. Unfortunately, the pictorial link on his Decoder Installs page no longer works.]
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I found my pics, they were on one of the hosting sites that shut down (prompting me to just start my own web site) and cameras weren't like today - I did this 15 years ago.
After I took the motor out, I turned it over and unscrewed the brush cap - don;t let the brush and spring fall out. You can see the brush spring in the motor. The cap is bottom right, and the lug with the tab is what was held down by the brush cap and touched the bottom of the frame.
I soldered my new orange wire right to the brush cap. I think I used the orange wire out of a piece of network/phone cable because I didn't have any decoder wire, now that I have plenty of extra decoder wire, I'd use that.
Screw the cap back on
I put a square of electrical tape over the cap, I'd use Kapton tape now.
Put the motor back in and now you have a dedicated orange wire.
I have more pictures of filing the frame to fit the DH163L0 but the right way to do these is use a micro size decoder and swap the incandescent bulbs for LEDs. You can see in the before picture here that the 8 pin connection board takes up a lot of room just so it can have those tabs on it - there's a LOT of space in there for a decoder if you hard wire it.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Cool, that helps alot, and thanks for the spring warning.
Wow - this is all so helpful. I just recieved the P2K Alco S1 I bought on eBay and I want to install a decoder. Thanks!
I did it and nothing blew up. Had to do some grinding to get the motor back in place but it works. How do I check to make sure motor is isolated proberly, followed all the steps but you never know.
**** put the decoder in backwards, oh well.
SInce the metal part of the motor is isolated from the brushes, the entire motor cavity in the frame doesn't need to be filled with tape. Just cover the brush cap so it can't contact the loco frame. That allows the motor to just drop back in, no filing. If I had wider Kapton tape at the time, I would have used it instead of the square of electrical tape, the thinner Kapton wouldn't have even slightly tilted the motor.
If you check for continuity between your new orange wire and a clean spot ont he chassis, like where the old orange wire screw lug was, you should have no continuity. If so, you're good.
My orange wire from the board was long enough to solder to the tab on the washer sticking out of the motor, kinda looks like that is what they were going to do but didn't. There was a slight raising of the solder on the tab and that is why I had to grind the frame. I took that engine apart many times before I got it right. There is not a whole lotta room inside once everything was put back in. I just ditched the lights rrather than risk a problem once they blew. One thing I did do before I fixed it was to put the decoder in first and run it on DCC to make sure it was acceptable, it was. Once I took out the lights I was much braver. Since I found a great grinding bit, I may in near future try a Kato install with soldered wires. But anyway it runs great at very slow speed, top speed is low but it was on DC also. Bit of noise at higher speeds but seems to be quieting down on run in (don't think this thing was ever run except to test when I got it and it never had the body on for sure).
See per my pictures, I left off the old washer with tab. The tab is what used to contact the frame. I just soldered my orange wire right to the brush cap, so I only needed the tape to make sure the solder blob didn't touch the frame.
I see. The engine can sure move slow, less than 2 miles an hour, not as good as a shay I built from an MDC kit, it ran at half that but definiatly good enough.