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Enabling a Soundtraxx Econami sound decoder to run on DC

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  • Member since
    November 2021
  • 3 posts
Posted by Alphateck on Thursday, November 18, 2021 12:29 AM

Thank you for the warm welcome and no worries with regards to the delayed posting. So I think I may have an idea to the cause of the problem in my particular situation.  So this past weekend, I removed the shell mainly because I wanted to start primer and paint.  While the first coat is curing, I decided to just go ahead and remove the capacitor and see if that had any impact.  Before I started, I decided to give it another go on my DC test track.  This time around it ran smoothly without any stop/go hesitation.  So I suspect there may have been so odd short caused by the shell pressing down on something.  I'll be working on reseating the wiring soon.  Hopefully that was it!

  • Member since
    November 2021
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Posted by Alphateck on Thursday, November 18, 2021 12:25 AM

Actually it's the opposite... the frequency of hesitation gets worse as you increase speed/voltage.  At the moment, my layout is in transition.  I still have a few locomotives on DC that I like to run until I get time to purchase and install decoders.  Some, like the one above I have converted to DCC but still would like that backwards compatibility until I reach a point to stop using DC on my layout.  From what I read in Soundtraxx's decoder documentation is that by design, in DC mode, it doesn't apply movement to the locomotive until the voltage reaches a certain threshold.  

  • Member since
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  • From: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted by BigDaddy on Tuesday, November 9, 2021 4:55 PM

Welcome to the forum.  Your posts will be delayed in moderation for the first few.

Sorry nothing to add from what I said previously.  Groups.IO has an excellent ESU and NCE group.  I assume there is a Sountraxx group, with different players.  That could be another resource for you.

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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  • From: Mpls/St.Paul
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Posted by wjstix on Tuesday, November 9, 2021 4:31 PM

Is the hesitation only at slow speeds? As noted, sound decoder equipped engines aren't going to work as well on DC because the sound eats up a lot of power before the engine moves. On some decoders, you can adjust some CVs to make it work better, but it's not going to ever be as good as when it runs on DCC.

Stix
  • Member since
    November 2021
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Posted by Alphateck on Thursday, November 4, 2021 11:46 PM

Hello, I know this is an older post but it came when trying to research a similar problem I'm having.  In my scenario, I have a TSU-1100 (diesel) installed on a Proto GP18 (converted to a GP9) and works great in DCC.  I enabled DC mode and I get similar behavior where it cuts in/out constant (movement and sound together) when I am operating on DC track.  For my DC powerpack, I'm using a MRC Tech3 and I use JMRI to program my locomotives with an older Digitrax DCS50.  Did you ever get this resolved?  I was going through Soundtraxx documentation and some parts seem to infer that operation may be sketchy when you have a Keep-Alive and enable DC mode.  I installed the capacitor that came with my decoder.  Did you?  I am suspecting that the presence of the capacitor is causing this behavior...

  • Member since
    January 2021
  • From: Woodbridge Suffolk UK
  • 32 posts
Posted by Virgil on Thursday, January 28, 2021 2:24 PM

Randy, you are correct as it is a Hammant and Morgan resistive mat type controller.

Doug

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Thursday, January 28, 2021 1:33 PM

 Was also going to ask about the power supply, but it looks like it should be fine. Looks like it's a fairly standard. Some decoders don't take kindly to pulse power or PWM type power and do odd things. 

                                        --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    January 2021
  • From: Woodbridge Suffolk UK
  • 32 posts
Posted by Virgil on Thursday, January 28, 2021 9:00 AM

Hi Randy, thanks for the reply.

I'm using a sugar cube type speaker of 8 Ohm impedance and I watt output, no shorting errors showing on the decoder just the blue OK light though I will recheck and post if it is redlighting as well as the blue light.

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Thursday, January 28, 2021 8:12 AM

 Sounds like it is shorting or loosing power, but since it's happening just as it tries to chuff, it could be overloading. What sort of speaker did you use? Correct impedence rating? Nothing fromt he speaker wires touching the inside of the tender? Check with the tender open, SOundtraxx decoders have a visible LED that flashes error codes if something is going wrong like an overload.

                                             --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    January 2021
  • From: Woodbridge Suffolk UK
  • 32 posts
Posted by Virgil on Thursday, January 28, 2021 5:28 AM

Hi, and thanks for the informative reply.

The loco indeed ran fine on DC before I fitted the decoder, it's still fitted with its original cylindrical can motor and on DCC works perfectly on sound and runs very well.

I reset via CV8 on discovering the problem with DC enabled and read back the CVs which tally with the Soundtraxx manual where given.

I did change CV114 chuff rate to sync better at low speeds (on DCC of course) but but as far as I recall tested the loco DC enabled with the reset CVs but all to no avail. 

I do see where you are coming from though, it does seem that for the duration of the chuff period there is insufficient voltage available to run both motor and sound together, once the chuff packet has passed then background sound and motion restarts until the next chuff packet. At least that's what I looks like to me as well.

I have a photo of the chassis taken before repair showing the original fitment cylindrical can motor. I assumed that as it wasn't an open frame Pittman type then current draw would be OK for the decoder. I would attach it but can't figure out how to yet, I will try again.

It's great to have suggestions and thoughts on the problem to bounce back and forth, who knows, a solution may even be found! {:O)

 Can motor and brass connector bodge!

  • Member since
    January 2021
  • From: Woodbridge Suffolk UK
  • 32 posts
Posted by Virgil on Wednesday, January 27, 2021 11:18 AM

I agree that most other decoders do allow DC by default, Soudtraxx don't unfortunately - even though they claim "operates on DCC and DC layouts" on the packaging!

  • Member since
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  • From: Mpls/St.Paul
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Posted by wjstix on Wednesday, January 27, 2021 10:05 AM

Just wondering, did you try it on DC before changing the CVs? Most every decoder I've seen defaults to allowing DC or DCC operation, and you have to change a CV to NOT allow DC. 

Stix
  • Member since
    January 2021
  • From: Woodbridge Suffolk UK
  • 32 posts
Posted by Virgil on Wednesday, January 27, 2021 8:34 AM

Hi, and thank you for the input.

For the record I have the following CV values set thus:

CV12=1

CV29=38

CV13=0

CV14=3

CV241=0

CV242=0

In case it hasn't already linked here is the loco running on DC.

https://youtu.be/99ngXw3_thw

Thanks

  • Member since
    January 2021
  • From: Woodbridge Suffolk UK
  • 32 posts
Posted by Virgil on Wednesday, January 27, 2021 5:36 AM

BigDaddy

Sound is so much better with DCC.  Enabling dual DC - DCC mode is alleged to cause run away locos in DC. 

When I got back into MR, I went with DCC, not sure I would like sound, because of all the naysayers.  Turns out I like sound.  My only use for DC is to test locos before DCC conversion.

Sorry not an answer to your question at all.  You know there are CV 29 calculators?  There are a couple CV's, like 49,  which are additive, i.e. unrelated functions, all combined into a single CV. 

 

Hi and thanks for the reply, please see the Youtube link below of how the loco is running on DC.

https://youtu.be/99ngXw3_thw

  • Member since
    January 2021
  • From: Woodbridge Suffolk UK
  • 32 posts
Posted by Virgil on Wednesday, January 27, 2021 4:37 AM
Thanks Henry, I agree about DC sound but it’s for a friend who hasn’t got DCC set up.
  • Member since
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Posted by BigDaddy on Tuesday, January 26, 2021 6:02 PM

Sound is so much better with DCC.  Enabling dual DC - DCC mode is alleged to cause run away locos in DC. 

When I got back into MR, I went with DCC, not sure I would like sound, because of all the naysayers.  Turns out I like sound.  My only use for DC is to test locos before DCC conversion.

Sorry not an answer to your question at all.  You know there are CV 29 calculators?  There are a couple CV's, like 49,  which are additive, i.e. unrelated functions, all combined into a single CV. 

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

  • Member since
    January 2021
  • From: Woodbridge Suffolk UK
  • 32 posts
Enabling a Soundtraxx Econami sound decoder to run on DC
Posted by Virgil on Tuesday, January 26, 2021 1:21 PM

Having very successfully fitted a Soundtrax Econami decoder, adaptor board and sugar cube speaker into a Samhongsa CPR K1a 4-8-4 and with it running and sounding really good on DCC, I then tried enabling DC mode running on the decoder programming.

Not at all straightforward as to enable CV12 must be set to 1 (fine, no problem) then CV29 has to be changed with the number being arrived at by totalling the bit weights which are determined by turning each one of 8 separate bits in CV29 on or off.

I enabled Bit 1 (speed stps) which has weight of 2, Bit 2 APS (DC mode)  which has a Bit weight of 4 and Bit 5 (EAM) which allows extended addressing (4 figure number address i.e. loco cab number) as opposed to short 2 digit address. Bit 2 has a weight of 32, the three weights totalled 32+4+2= 38.

However when testing on DC power (2 different controllers tried) sound is enabled OK but wheel revolutions are paused at each chuff which itself is only briefly played.

Had anyone successfully enabled DC running with sound on on of these decoders please?

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