Can you point me to a resource or tell me how to go about wiring a momentary push button switch on a control panel that when pushed would align the several Atlas snap machine turnouts along the entry/exit route for a staging yard to allow for the orderly routing of a given train? I picture several of these switches on a control panel, each in the middle of a double ended yard track schematic on the panel. I want to select route for a given yard track by pushing one button For the yard track selected. Or do I need another kind of switch? Thank you in advance.
Hello All,
Mark Walther...when pushed would align the several Atlas snap machine turnouts along the entry/exit route for a staging yard to allow for the orderly routing of a given train?
It sounds like you are attempting to create a "route" through your yard.
How many turnouts are you talking about "throwing" simultaneously?
Do you want all the turnouts to move the same way all the time or do you want/need different switching "scenarios" for a given situation?
Are you running DC or DCC?
As always, a track diagram, if possible, is always helpful.
On my pike I have several turnouts "paired" together. If I throw one switch two turnouts move simultaneously.
In the same yard I have turnouts with a single control.
When I need to create a particular route through the yard I activate the paired turnouts along with the singularly controlled turnout(s) to create the required movements.
What type of switches are you contemplating? Atlas #56, pushbutton momentary?
Are you using a Capacitive Discharge Unit (CDU)?
The more information you can give to the great folks on these forums the better they can assist.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
For just two, like a crossover, you just hook two switch machines to the same control box. Though it is always recommended to use a capcitor discharge power supply so there is enough power to operate two at a time, and also keep from burning them out when the Atlas control box button eventually sticks (and they will).
For what it sounds liek you want to do - press a buttong for say track 5 and every turnout needed link track 5 to the main gets set properly, or press button 3 and it lines everything needed for track 3, then you are looking for a diode matrix control. Googling that should show many examples and wiring.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinkerFor just two, like a crossover, you just hook two switch machines to the same control box.
For switch machines in a "cross over" arrangement, you will need to reverse the polarity of one so the turnout movement is simultaneous in opposite directions.
For turnouts thrown in pairs, i.e. a siding, then the polarity will be the same for both.
In either case, you will need a jumper from one turnout motor to the paired unit.
With a CDU you can throw more than two turnouts but you cannot deviate from the set pattern established by the wiring of the route.
For ultimate flexibility with DC-driven turnouts, individual control is best.
With DCC controlled turnouts a "route" can be programmed. But this requires converting all turnout motors to DCC.
jjdamnit With DCC controlled turnouts a "route" can be programmed. But this requires converting all turnout motors to DCC.
It doesn't have to be one or the other. To convert to DCC control, you will need a stationary decoder for each turnout you convert. Make sure you get the right model, and you'll also be able to use pushbuttons like DC to control the turnouts. You can also selectively convert just some turnouts to DCC while leaving the others how you have them.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
For a yard type situation, it is pretty easy to set up the equivalent of a route control without using DCC. It's been done for ages, long before DCC. Pick the track you want, push that button, and the correct ladder tracks are all aligned. You just need diodes in cases where there are conflicting route. You can find articles in MR all the way back to at least the 60's on how dto do this, it's voered in Peter Throne's Electronic Projects for Model Railroaders, and in many other articles since. There's even a somewhat more recent article that shows how to make it work with Tortoise motors, as well.
It's not complicated. Yoiu just need to make a chart of all possible selections. FOr a basic stub yard, you have things like:
Mainline - TO1 Normal
Track 1 - TO1 Reverse, TO2 Reverse
Track 2 - TO1 Reverse, TO2 Normal, TO3 reverse
The various articles show ing how to do it show you how to chart it out and then figure out where the diodes are needed.
This one seems pretty comprehensive: Steve's Page on Diode Matrix Turnout Control (felgall.com)
Randy's recommendation is a good one. When I built my switching layout the last thing in the world I wanted was a long string of switches to deal with and know that to get to from A to B I had to push six different switches in a unique combination. Pass.
I've been using single push buttons for routing, diodes as required and a large CD unit for years and I wouldn't want to do it any other way. The push buttons are placed in the track plan and it's intuitive. Most buttons control a single switch position but some control as many as four machines.
I expanded to add a loop around the back of the original layout and added a yard which I will also control the same way. This got a bit more complex. Twelve turnouts, one a Roco three-way for the engine service building, with one route requiring the alignment of seven machines.
After a lot of head scratching and searching I found the answer at Brimal Components Ltd.: https://www.bclstore.co.uk/product-page/diode-matrix-for-up-to-11-points-sets and that led me to this information https://drive.google.com/file/d/15PZJcePhScqHNKNPSBAOqP2kWyVWSv1P/view which helped a lot. Haven't wired the yard yet but the head work is all done and on paper.
Thank you for your reply.
Yes, I am trying to create route selection through my double-ended staging yard of 11 tracks at the touch of a single push button switch. There is no need to throw any single turnouts individually. I am looking for operational simplicity rather than flexibility in this staging yard application. I am hoping to throw as many as 5x2 turnouts at a time from one switch. I am planning to use momentary push button switches. I have no need for turnout position indicator lights as I plan to select a track to activate each time turning all required turnouts to the required position for the route. I am doing this in DC on my DCC throttled layout. I anticipate that this will require a diode matrix and more than one capacitor discharge unit after reading responses from others. I am working out the circuits now.
I would be happy to provide a track plan diagram once I figure out how to load/attach it here. I haven't figured that out yet either.
I have done this on two layouts, Randy's N Scale NORFOLK SOUTHERN, and my STRATTON AND GILLETTE dream house layout.
What will work is a Circuitron "Snapper" and a home-made "diode matrix" system. Then you just turn a rotary switch to the track number you want and push a button. BANG... the Snapper pops all the switches to the correct alignment at once. The Snapper is a capacitor discharge with enough "Umph" to move several switch motors simultaneously.
Explaining a diode matrix is beyond what I can do in the forum. There have been at least two good articles in Model Railroader on how to build one.
It is pretty straight-forward to figure out the logic to build a diode matrix. The ones I built all worked perfectly from the initial installation.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Mark Waltherwhen pushed would align the several Atlas snap machine turnouts along the entry/exit route for a staging yard to allow for the orderly routing of a given train
Mark WaltherI anticipate that this will require a diode matrix and more than one capacitor discharge unit after reading responses from others.
a diode matrix would not be needed to align switches on a yard ladder. you would have a momentary switch for each yard track at each end. in addition to connecting power to one or the other switch machine on the local turnout, a diode is needed for each mom switch to connect it to the preceeding turnout mom switch which in turn has a diode.
but if you plan to use capacitive discharge units, you may be better off with a processor board sequencing thru the switches and allowing time for a CD unit to recharge. I've seen multiple turnout units that have a single large capacitor. you may not need a separate CD for each turnout position
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
If a single button is to line a given yard track AND the ladder for a route, you definitely will need diodes to keep from back feeding conflicting options. It's a basic diode matrix route controla nd it's been around since appropriate diodes became available. If you draw out the matrix connections to the pushbuttons, you will see how there are potential routes that backfeed power so certain coils try to move both ways at the same time. That's where the diodes come in, and since the output of a CD power supply is DC, it works. A diode on each button is a matrix in another form. Extra diodes don't hurt, but the matrix layout allows you to see where a diode is needed and where they aren't.
rrinker For what it sounds liek you want to do - press a buttong for say track 5 and every turnout needed link track 5 to the main gets set properly, or press button 3 and it lines everything needed for track 3, then you are looking for a diode matrix control. Googling that should show many examples and wiring.
A long ago issue of Model Railroader discussed Diode Matrices, but under the title of "Distant Switching"
Just a different term to use if search didgital achieves.
i wouldn't consider aligning a yard ladder needing a diode matrix, more like a diode OR gate where a particular circuit can be energized by a number of sources isolated using diodes.
a matrix has 2 sets of inputs and 1 set of outputs.
the interlock below would use a diode matrix, 2 of them, where two buttons need to be pressed to separately align turnouts on the left and right sides. there are effectively 4 columns of momentary switches. pairs from columns 1 & 2 select a route on the left side and columns3 & 4 the right.
in such a circuit one switch (left) may connect a set of diode to ground while the right switch connects diodes to power. between the diodes are switch motors. only the motors connected between a diode connected to power and a diode connected to ground operates.
this approach wouldn't work for tortoise machines without additional hardware such as latching relays.
gregcthis approach wouldn't work for tortoise machines without additional hardware such as latching relays.
For Tortoise switch machines you can use a diode matrix to energize DPDT relays.
For Kato switch machines use the diode matrix to control DPDT relays and a momentary push button to activate the switch motors.
Atlas, or other twin coil switch motors, as the OP is using just need the diode matrix and a capacitor discharge unit. They are the most simple.
Look at the link I posted for some examples. Even a 3 track to 1 ladder with 2 turnouts needs 2 diodes. The matrix method makes it easy to figure out where the didoes are needed.
rrinkerThe matrix method makes it easy to figure out where the didoes are needed.
you mean arranging the diagram in columns and rows