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Need a source for Mabuchi FK-280SA-14200 motors

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  • Member since
    February 2019
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Posted by DRGWGJCO on Wednesday, May 19, 2021 3:56 PM

No it isn't a Mabuchi. It was all I could find at the time that was close and had dual shafts. Ordered some of the FK-280SA-14200 from Amazon  twice and got single shafted Mabuchi Motors. They refunded the money and let me keep the 3 motors not sure what I will do with them.

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Posted by RR_Mel on Wednesday, May 19, 2021 3:22 PM

I have a pair of those motors on order off eBay due late next month.  It is slightly larger than the Mabuchi but very close to the specs.


Mel



 
My Model Railroad   
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

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Posted by YoHo1975 on Wednesday, May 19, 2021 2:57 PM
Is that a Mibuchi? Can't quite tell from the listing, but it looks like it's a little slower than an Athearn stock....not per se' a bad thing. This one might also work https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001982757024.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000023.6.24d53c0fpZXHjw
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Posted by DRGWGJCO on Wednesday, May 19, 2021 2:47 PM

hornblower

 

 

 

 
DRGWGJCO
Package left Utah yesterday. Should be here this week will post photos

 

 

 

Any news yet?  

 

 

Uh Yeah. After an investigation Pay Pal refunded my money. 

I did get these however will see how they do.

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mKLFoBP 

Had to take the outer metal cover off to fit but I don't even know why it's there.

Anyone else use these motors?

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Posted by YoHo1975 on Wednesday, May 19, 2021 2:40 PM
Another month and a half since the last post and still no word. the Tnetocury.com website also seems to no longer be registered. I've been poking around looking for a low cost motor to repower some AHM/Mehano units and various Blue Boxes. Got all excited about the Mabuchi only to learn they've been gone for six months. I wonder if it's for similar reasons to the general electronics supply problems?
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Posted by hornblower on Tuesday, April 6, 2021 1:00 PM

DRGWGJCO
Package left Utah yesterday. Should be here this week will post photos

 

Any news yet?  

Hornblower

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Posted by D94R on Monday, April 5, 2021 2:24 PM

garya

 

These use to look exactly like the Kato HM5 motors.  Not sure why they changed the style. (my ebay purchase history links to the quoted motors now if I were to re-buy the HM5 looking ones)

Anyhow, I purchased 40 of the original style assuming they would "disapear" from availability at some point. 

I used them in my most egregious Athearn RTR's (couple SD50 coffee grinders and a couple SD40T-2 clickers) and they all are whisper quiet with the Kato knock offs. I use them along with A-Line hex flywheels (exact same as Athearns).

If the quoted ones are as smooth and quiet as the previous style, these motors are very nice. 

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Posted by DRGWGJCO on Tuesday, March 16, 2021 4:10 PM

Package left Utah yesterday. Should be here this week will post photos

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Posted by DRGWGJCO on Tuesday, March 2, 2021 9:16 AM

Looks promising  got a notification from USPS about the shipment. 

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Posted by DRGWGJCO on Saturday, February 27, 2021 5:37 PM

Will do. 

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Posted by rrinker on Saturday, February 27, 2021 4:45 PM

 That's realistic shipping when it's not subsidized like China to US is. Plus if you order over $40 from them, shipping is free. And even with $25 shipping, it's $3.80 per motor - total cost is what matters.

                                    --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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  • From: Bakersfield, CA 93308
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Posted by RR_Mel on Saturday, February 27, 2021 3:35 PM

Let us know when your order arrives, I couldn’t find any info anywhere on the seller.

 $25 for shipping turned me off, I was going to order some until I saw the shipping cost.

Mel



 
My Model Railroad   
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 

  • Member since
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Posted by DRGWGJCO on Saturday, February 27, 2021 2:04 PM

I just ordered 10 for $38 including shipping. So 3.80 a piece from. These guys.

https://www.tnetocury.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=541213

 

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Posted by Spalato68 on Monday, December 7, 2020 4:46 PM

Try to put just one drop of good oil (e.g. Labelle) on each shaft bearing. It could make a difference. Those motors come totaly dry. I have two, they are more quiet than some Roco motors (those used in Genesis locomotives). 

If you want silent motor, then it is not easy to avoid coreless motors. They are more expensive, but with a good reason. With good DCC decoder (e.g. ESU, Zimo), they will provide running characteristics that are very difficult to match by iron core motors. But replacement of standard iron core motor with coreless one can cause new problems - only then it is possible to notice that gears, contact wipers, linkage (at steam locomotives) also contribute to "noise". 

One example of contact wiper "noise" can be heard here, this is my last conversion of Fleischmann steam locomotive from old three pole pancake motor to Japanese coreless motor:

Motor and gears cannot be heard - only contact wipers (on loco wheels, those on tender wheels are silent) and rolling of wheels on tracks. This motor was bought on ebay, for approximately 3-4 USD. Obviously a consequence of mass production.

Here is example of slow speed performance of Roco locomotive with Escap coreless motor and Zimo decoder. 

Hrvoje

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Posted by Southgate 2 on Monday, December 7, 2020 4:23 PM

Spalato68

Hornblower, you can try this one:

https://www.aliexpress.com/i/33049650588.html

It costs less than 1 USD, so no risk. According to my experience, it comes unlubricated, so add ONE drop of oil at each bearing before use. I bought it just out of curiosity, but it seems to be just fine motor. It has carbon brushes, so it should be durable. Rotor is skew wound (meaning cogging is negligible), therefore it works well with DCC decoders, I tried it and found no issues. 

Hrvoje

 

I have some of those. Torquey, powerful, cheap, but sound like a big block Ford with it's headers uncapped at a certain mid range speed. Dan

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Posted by RR_Mel on Monday, December 7, 2020 10:32 AM

Over the last year or so I have ordered about a dozen cheapie motors off eBay trying to find usable motors for my HO locomotives.  I use the Canon EN22 as my reference motor.  I found the Canon specs to be very accurate.

I created a MEL mini motor dynamometer using a Mabuchi SF-266SA 1G160 as a generator with a shunt current meter.  The meter is a 5 digit 0-3 amps.  I calibrated the output against the Canon EN22 for my reference.  It spots a puny motor instantly.  

So far the best 7200 RPM Single Shaft motor I’ve found is the Mabuchi SF-266SA 1G160.

The best Athearn replacement 12300 RPM dual shaft motor I’ve found is the Mabuchi SK-280 14200.

The best thing to look for in the listings is Stall Current, minimum 1 amp at 12 volts stall current is the best quickie identification for power.

Canon EN22 locked rotor Current 1.10 Amps.

Mabuchi SF-266SA 1G160 locked rotor 1.2 Amps.

Mabuchi SK-280SA 14200 locked rotor 1.4 Amps.

The currents above are not manufacture published specs, those are Mel measured currents at 12 volts.

Mel



 
My Model Railroad   
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 

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Posted by rrinker on Monday, December 7, 2020 8:22 AM

 They do on the product specifications for each model, even though it's not encoded in the model number. Can't even really calculate it since they don't mention amps, though you do get the wire size (and can figure resistence) and number of turns (can probably get pretty close to length with the armature size). 

 That implies you can get two motors with identical model numbers that are rated at different voltages, though in practice I think they will just make one and rate the voltage at the maximum the windings can withstand without melting, and give you the RPM at that voltage. If a motor is listed at 18 volts but is a little fast, at a max of 12 volrs it might be fine.

                                    --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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  • From: Bakersfield, CA 93308
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Posted by RR_Mel on Monday, December 7, 2020 7:38 AM

 

Even the Mabuchi Motor Chart doesn’t mention voltage, RPM or shaft.
https://www.mabuchi-motor.com/product/knowledge/classification/designations.html

 

Mel



 
My Model Railroad   
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

 

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Bakersfield, CA 93308
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Posted by RR_Mel on Monday, December 7, 2020 7:24 AM

4000 RPM at 12 volts won’t cut the mustard in an Athearn looking for 12000 RPM.

It has to be the FK-280SA 14200 for the correct RPM for an Athearn.
 
Mabuchi must have dozens of motors using the 280 reference with dozens of RPM.


Mel



 
My Model Railroad   
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Zagreb / Croatia /Europe
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Posted by Spalato68 on Monday, December 7, 2020 12:30 AM

What about this one:

Mitsumi 280

Hrvoje

P.S.

Unfortunately, it is too slow (4000 RPM/12 V). Sorry.

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Posted by RR_Mel on Sunday, December 6, 2020 10:14 PM

garya

I ordered one of those before they became unavailable.  It would work but it doesn’t have the same power the stall current is 800ma.  The FK-280 stall current is 1.4A.  The FS-266SA is 1.12A.  The Canon EN22 is 1.10A.  All at 12 volts.

The FK-280SA 14200 motors are listed as available off Amazon but pricy.

https://www.amazon.com/Motors-FK-280SA-14200-Speed-Shaft-Motor/dp/B089ZHBXWY/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=FK-280SA+14200&qid=1607314000&s=office-products&sr=1-1

I think they will become available on eBay if we are patient.


 

Mel



 
My Model Railroad   
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

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Posted by garya on Sunday, December 6, 2020 9:04 PM

Gary

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Posted by RR_Mel on Tuesday, December 1, 2020 1:01 PM

I don’t think it’s worth the effort because of the low RPM of the 266 motor.  There are several dual shaft motors out there that turn at 7200 RPM, the Athearns need 12K RPM to run at normal Athearn speed.

Also as I have shown in the earlier post pictured above you can put two 266 motors back to back in an Athearn frame, double the power but still at reduced RPM.  I have two Athearn SD40-2 frames with dual 266 motors installed and they run very good at slow speed, about scale 50 to 60 MPH max speed because of the lower RPM.
 
I guess we will just have to be patient and wait to see if the FK-280SA 14200 returns  

Mel



 
My Model Railroad   
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 21,367 posts
Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, December 1, 2020 12:34 PM

The motors I was seeing were 280s with over 14K RPM spec (I found them with a simple Google search on the old motor code).  Those seemed likely (to me) to be the single-shaft version of the motors in question.

I suspect you'd need to make a jig analogous to some of the ones for vacuum-cleaner-motor service: something holding the armature pole sections and the end of the comm solid and square  as the press pushes the shaft.  It would be interesting to see how Mabuchi gets these shafts located and then trues the armature up for high RPM... I have a grim suspicion the armature is pressed on the shaft before the commutator, with the electrical connections made afterwards.

It's possible we'd have to check and adjust rotating balance of the armature after displacing the shaft.  Normal static balance on knife edges is a start; I suspect it wouldn't be rocket science to build a dynamic rig that would mark imbalance as a spot on each edge of the armature stack for a little spot grinding...

  • Member since
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Posted by RR_Mel on Tuesday, December 1, 2020 9:23 AM

rrinker

 You'd have to fit a bearing in the commutator end, and also figure out how to press the shaft through both the rotor and the commutator without crushing the commutator. 

                              --Randy

 

 

Randy

It looks like there is a bearing in the motor shell or end bell.  I haven’t taken one apart as of yet.



 

The knurling on the shaft is in the shaft not enlarging the 2mm, it looks like the shaft can be removed through the bearing.
 

Even if that works it doesn't change the RPM problem.
 

Mel



 
My Model Railroad   
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, December 1, 2020 8:24 AM

 You'd have to fit a bearing in the commutator end, and also figure out how to press the shaft through both the rotor and the commutator without crushing the commutator. 

                              --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Bakersfield, CA 93308
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Posted by RR_Mel on Tuesday, December 1, 2020 7:15 AM

Overmod

Do you think it’s doable?







There is another problem, the 266 is 7200RPM at 12 volts and the 280 is 13800RPM at 12 volts.  The Atheran motor is 12800RPM at 12 volts.
 

Mel



 
My Model Railroad   
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 21,367 posts
Posted by Overmod on Monday, November 30, 2020 11:45 PM

As a potentially very stupid question:

I see the single-shaft version of this motor (used among other things for automobile lock motors) still readily available, often with pre-knurled shaft on one end.

Has anyone tried polishing down some of that knurl if need be, and using a press or staking tool to press the shaft to give shorter 'double shafts' (that still appear long enough to take most universal ends or other devices)?

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Posted by Spalato68 on Monday, November 30, 2020 2:32 PM

These iron core motors are coming and going in circles, I am sure after a while, you will catch them again. I noticed that already, some of motors I bought were available in large numbers, then dissapear for some time, then come again. It is not easy to find good dual shaft motor, so when available, it is better to grab more and have some reserve for later - iron core or coreless. 

Hrvoje

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