Hello Overmod
Thanks for that Link. I had no idea that there is another circuit board in the engine boiler.
I will try again and attempt it for the last time.
Also, maybe there could be a problem with the circuit board in the engine boiler and not the decoder in the tender.
Anyway, I'll try one more time to try and remove #22 to get to #23 screw.
Frankly, I would drill it out or cut it across diameter, if necessary, to get it out to access that screw head. It's not as if you lose hundreds of resale value by 'circulating' a rare collector's item in locomotive mint state 71, or failing concours over the immaculate condition of small part 22.
It may be unlikely at this late juncture to source a replacement 22 from Athearn or one of its servicers or dealers. But I don't think this is a particularly hard component to make a satisfactory replacement for even if you have to scratchbuild something. From its name, I think it's just a 'blind' cover for the screw, not a component of the turret or cover.
I wonder if you could make a replacement but shorter 22 with a small magnet on the bottom to hold it on the screw, or a partial turret cover with small magnets and thin steel to hold it in place like the access hatch on a BLI GG1? That would simplify getting to the screw in future...
Please don’t give up! One of my things is fixing a problem like your having. I have over 70 locomotives (most were clunkers off eBay) that I’ve restored since the early 2000s, all look and run better than out of the box new.Repairing a problem like you have will give you more personal satisfaction than running your layout!Athearn has been making locomotives probably longer than any other manufacturer still in business. I’m sure they’ve had an occasional bummer but you can conquer this. Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
The link that Overmod posted is an eye opener and now sheds some light!
Here is what RCGrabBag found:
quote:....Two of the wires were reversed (the X-Acto blade is point to the two). One wire is a track pickup lead (all black wire), the other is a lead to the motor (black wire with splotch of yellow). This meant that a track pickup wire was directly feeding one pole of the motor with current....
The picture of the PC board that he included is very helpful and that might be what is wrong with the wiring of my engine, being that the wires are also reversed!
So, again I tried to remove the #22 (small part) to remove #23 screw.
No luck, still won't budge.
So tomorrow I am off to the Hobby store, maybe they will do me a favour and try and remove that annoying plastic piece and at the same time test the 6 pin harness on the engine to the DC power pack.
Again, thank you to all for your interest and help.
Hawks RuleI think that the sad thing is that One pays good money for a product and there shouldn't have to be these kind of problems! I have read in the past the MRC decoders are not very reliable, so you would think that Athearn might want to avoid using them! Also,if there was better quality control, we wouldn't have to go through this, but that term died 30 years ago with just about everything from appliances to autos to power tools!!
this must be from a 2006 2011 ish timeframe
they use tsunumi decoders in recent years . you bought it at a yardsale ?if u got it cheap enough put in a TCS WOW HEAVY STEAM DECODER
thomas81zyou bought it at a yardsale ?
He bought it, "new in box" at an estate sale. The only one who knew that for sure, wasn't there to stand behind the product. That could be an expensive lesson for the OP but a useful lesson to everyone buying from an estate sale, a train show, ebay, craigslist or Facebook.
Train shows at least have a test track. Legimate brick and mortar stores will stand behind their products. If you are buying an untested loco from someone who isn't going to be around to give you your money back, you need to adjust what you are willing to spend, to compensate for the risk you are taking.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
I suspect Overmod is right about how RCGrabBag got that little part poppoed off. Two hobby knives, or two small screwdrivers, prying up on opposite sides. Prying up with just one probably just tilts it and jams it in harder.
The other thing you could try is to wrap the jaws of need nose pliers with some masking tape, squeeze around the piece, and twist while lifting up. Twisting may be the key - if it was all painted after assembly, paint could be gluing the seam shut. Also try lightly running the tip of a knife around where the gap should be between that part and the rest of the boiler, then try the taped pliers.
I looked can cannot find any parts available on Athearn's parts page for that loco, so use the tap to keep the pliers from marring the one you have and you cna put it back on when done. Maybe roll up a piece of sandpaper and clean out the hole before putting the screw back in, to clean off some of the pait so the piece fits in easier. Not so loose that it falls off somewhere on your layout and gets lost, but no so tight you need to pry like a madman to get it off.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Thanks Randy.
I will try that tomorrow morning, before I go to the hobby shop. If it still is stuck, hopefully they can help me at the shop!
The Hawk sent me some more pictures to post of the inside of the engine.
I guess they only stocked a couple of colors of wire when those were assembled.I stock ten colors of #28 and #30 but then I’m not in manufacturing.My articulated wiring. Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
RR_MelI guess they only stocked a couple of colors of wire when those were assembled.
Those images are very large when you open them separately (at least in my browser) -- I actually had to zoom out to get them in reasonable focus. It appears to me not only that there is significant flux contamination, but quite a few little solder balls on the board between a number of those wires. Perhaps a first step would be to gently clean between the pads?
I like what I see in those photos!!! Very clearly marked M+ and M-, power it up and see what the voltage or lack of voltage is on the Motor M+ & M- with power applied to the wheels. Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
Hello Mel, I just got back from the hobby shop, unfortunately the DCC guy is off today and won't be back until saturday. Anyway, now that we can see what is under the hood, do I place the loco on a cradle, turn on the DC power pack and touch M- and M+ with the wires comimg from the transformer and see if the wheels spins?
I think if voltage is applied on the wheels, nothing should happen - it is a DCC locomotive, and to complete the circuit, a tender should be connected - but that does not work. When tender is diconnected, all my DCC locomotives does not move if any kind of power is applied on locomotive wheels (if decoder is in tender).
Therefore I would try to apply DC voltage directly to motor wires - if solder iron is available, I would unsolder wires coming from motor and connect them directly to DC power pack. If motor moves, than error is somewhere between decoder and M+ and M - pads in locomotive PCB.
DO NOT CONNECT POWER TO THE MOTOR!!!! That will take out the decoder! Only apply power to the wheels with a decoder equipped locomotive!!!! Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
Yes. Make sure there is no connection from the black unsoldered wires back to the decoder.Once the smoke is released from the decoder you can’t put it back! Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
How he can destroy the decoder if decoder is in tender and tender is disconnected? Secondly, I suggested to UNSOLDER the wires going to motor and test motor DIRECTLY with DC. In such way nothing can be damaged.
I repeat, motor is in DCC locomotives supplied from TENDER, because DCC decoder is (usually) there. In this case, 100%. So, if any kind of power is applied to locomotive wheels while tender with DCC decoder is DISCONNECTED, nothing should happen - this is how DCC locomotives work.
Hrvoje
Well, I unsoldered the wires and connected them to the DC power and the motor works!!
So, now what is the next step?
My thanks to Henry for posting the pictures of the PCB!
Well, at least we know now that motor is OK. Now solder the wires back where they were.
Then you need to do the same check but from tender to locomotive. Check with multimeter buzzer (that reports short circuit) if pads in tender marked M+ are connected with the same pads in locomotive. That means to connect one probe of multimeter to M+ pad in tender, and another probe to M+ pad in locomotive. If wiring is OK, multimeter should report a short circuit. Then repeat the same for pads M- in tender and locomotive. If both are ok (multimeter shows short circuit for bot M+ and M- pair of pads), then I am afraid decoder is very probably faulty. I know that multimeter moved when you tested the decoder on M+ and M-, but who knows how much "juice" was sent from decoder in that moment to motor pads. Maybe just enough to move the needle in multimeter, but not enough to move a motor.
To be 100% certain if motor part of decoder is working, you should unsolder the wires in tender that are soldered to M+ and M- pads. Then, solder here a two separate wires, approximately 5-6 inch long. If you have a spare motor, connect both wires to motor. Then apply DCC on tender wheels and use the DCC throttle to "drive" the locomotive. If motor part of decoder is ok, spare motor should start to rotate. If you do not have spare motor, and have an DC locomotive, put this locomotive on some part of track, or just lie it next to tender and connect these new wires to DC locomotive wheels and use DCC throttle as explained above. Again, if motor part of decoder is OK, DC locomotive will move. If not, motor part of a decoder is probably dead.
That is for now.
Hawks Rule Well, I unsoldered the wires and connected them to the DC power and the motor works!! So, now what is the next step?
Well you have eliminated the motor. I would wait for a reply from Randy, he’s the DCC Guru. It wouldn’t hurt to take a picture of the board on the right that shows the entire board. Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
Hello Hrvoje,
At this point I think I will wait till Saturday and bring the loco and tender to the DCC guy and see what he says.
Thanks to everyone, I will let you know what happens on the weekend!
That is very smart decision-:) It is very frustrating looking how you are trying to solve this, and not being able to help you - I would gladly do so if I were closer, but probably 8000 - 10000 miles and corona epidemic is too much.
What I have suggested in my previous post is to test the wiring between locomotive and tender. If this is bad (I hope for that), that can be relatively easily rectified. But if wiring is OK, then nothing else but decoder is bad (except decoder reset solves this issue - I do not know if you managed to reset a decoder).
But if this is the case - do not put this magnificent locomotive on a shelf. Ask somebody to install a new sound decoder, possibly much better speaker/speakers, and you will soon forget how much you paid for it - sound and running quality will amaze you. Any of "big three" sound decoders is excellent - both in sound and motor control.
One more from the OP. I'm doing what I always do with photos and Imgur. That is I just upload my own from my Iphone, I don't do anything to reduce pixel size before uploading and post the pic as a BB link
The pictures are great Henry! So good that they open more doors to more questons. Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
Thanks again Henry!
So you tested the tender alone on DCC, with the meter connected to the M+ and M- wires there, and saw the meter increase as you turned up the throttle, correct? That tells us the decoder is responding to speed commands on DCC. And since the bell and whistle work, so the rest of the decoder seems to be working.
Which M+ and M- wires did you unsolder int he loco, the blue and yellow ones? And the motor turns fine when DC is applied there? That means the problem lied between the plug and cable and that point on the loco PCB. Maybe the same problem that other guy had with his - check the pictures and follow the wires and see if the track pickups got mixed up with the motor wires when the loco was assembled. That's the problem when they use all the same color wires. But trace them back, the wires from the M+ and M- should go to 2 and 7 at the very rear of the loco where the wire for the harness is attached.
Hi Randy,
I unsoldered M- and M+, black wires on my Loco, but yellow and blue on Rcgrabags example.
Except, on his loco, the wires were reversed, mine are in the right spots.
So, yes after I unsoldered the M- and M+ the motor turned fine when DC applied.
I then resoldered the two wire back in their spots.
My guess now is that the problem lies maybe with the six pin harness and the 6 pin connector on the tender.