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Atlas H16-44 New Haven led's constantly on

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Atlas H16-44 New Haven led's constantly on
Posted by Avmus on Monday, October 12, 2020 9:27 AM

I have searched this previously and have not found a specific resolution. I recently purchased an Atlas H16-44 NEw Haven Ho locomotive. I switched the decoder jumpers so it runs dcc on my PowerCab system. When I put on my power to the layout, the H16 automatically has the orange classicification led's on. I have to tap the 2 Function twice to turn them off. Once I hit 2 again on my PowerCab the green or red led's go on depending on the direction. I have read that function 2 is momentary, but that doesn't seem to be the case because the function button doesn't need to be held. My question is what CV(s) do I adjust to turn off the automatic running orange classification lights? Is this possible?

thank you

Sorry for my layman terminology.

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, October 12, 2020 9:57 AM

Avmus
My question is what CV(s) do I adjust to turn off the automatic running orange classification lights? Is this possible?

My immediate question is "why would there be 'orange' classification lights in the first place?" at least on a New Haven prototype.  Wouldn't that suggest an initialization issue with the lighting (and I'd have to wonder about AC going to red/green LEDs to make 'orange' if that made any practical sense on that model locomotive) rather than a function command to, in effect, initialize correct 'color' operation?

Having to hit F2 twice to get them off also seems strange, and likely a factor in differential diagnosis.

I'd reset the decoder, and if that doesn't work either contact Atlas or see if this is mentioned on their forums anywhere.

(And if you just bought this or it's in warranty, think about exchanging it...)

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Posted by Paul3 on Monday, October 12, 2020 10:53 AM

I would try a factory reset on the decoder and see if that fixes anything.

I have four of these Atlas H16-44's, and none of them exhibit this behavior (admittingly on Digitrax systems, but still...).

FWIW, there is no "orange" class or marker light in railroading, so both the green and red LED's being on at the same time (like a bi-polar LED) is not good.  It shouldn't do that...at all, especially considering they are directional.

The momentary nature of F2 is always controlled by your throttle.

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Posted by Avmus on Monday, October 12, 2020 11:04 AM

Thank you. I will try a reset. 

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Posted by tstage on Monday, October 12, 2020 5:09 PM

I remapped the classification lights on my Atlas NYC H16-44 for independent control so that F1 & F2 activate white (front)/red (rear) when going forward and F3 & F4 activate white (rear)/red (front) when going in reverse.  Since pressing an F-button turns a classification light either on or off, the independent control allows me to operate the H16-44 prototypically; albeit by itself or in a train.  You would never operate both sets of classifications lights on the locomotive when pulling a train.

Mine originally came with the red/green LEDs for classification lights but I switched them out for red/white LEDs to match what the NYC used.

Tom

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Posted by rrinker on Monday, October 12, 2020 6:08 PM

 The 2 key on the PowerCab is not momentary. The horn button is the momentary F2. 

Something is definitely wrong though, I can't imagine F2 would be configured to control the class lights, and the orange means the red and green are coming on at the same time. 

                                       --Randy

 


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Posted by mvlandsw on Tuesday, October 13, 2020 12:30 AM

"Mine originally came with the red/green LEDs for classification lights but I switched them out for red/white LEDs to match what the NYC used."

Tom,

Is there a red/white two color LED available or do you use two separate LED's? In my modeling time period green was not being used and few if any models come with white class lights.

Mark Vinski

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Posted by tstage on Tuesday, October 13, 2020 6:56 AM

Mark,

They are red/white bi-color LEDs and I purchased them from Litchfield Station.  The white aspect is a bit too stark so I painted the LED bulbs with a single coat of Tamiya X-26 Clear Orange paint.  When illuminated the white classification lights are a fairly close match to the yeloglo LED headlights.  And the paint doesn't affect the red aspect at all.

One thing to note: These particular LED come with a (-) anode rather than a (+) anode.  So, you'll need to wire it to your decoder the opposite you would an LED with a (+) anode.  IIRC, the center pin should be the (-) anode and touching the outer pins with either your white or yellow wire will give you the white or red aspect.

HTH...

Tom

P.S. Mark - I sent you a PM...

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Posted by wjstix on Tuesday, October 13, 2020 9:29 AM

Avmus
I switched the decoder jumpers so it runs dcc on my PowerCab system.

Do you mean you removed the dummy plug from an eight-pin receptacle and plugged in a decoder, or is this one of the early Atlas DCC-equipped ones where there's a six-pin plug tethered to the decoder/light board, and you move it from one receptacle to the other to switch it from DC to DCC?

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Posted by Avmus on Thursday, October 22, 2020 3:43 PM

Yes the latter, early Atlas DCC.  UPDATE! So I am pretty sure I reset the decoder and no change! When I power my system up the class lights go white/yellow. Any other ideas? I think I followed the directions on resetting the decoder but it didn't make any changes. I made CV 8 set to 08. I am so confused with the cv's on this decoder. Help!!

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Posted by tstage on Thursday, October 22, 2020 4:28 PM

IIRC, my NYC H16-44 was manufactured in 2003 and came with a Lenz "345" decoder.  According to the TTE website, the reset for a Lenz decoder is CV8=33 rather than CV8=8.  See if that makes a difference or not...

Tom

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Posted by rrinker on Thursday, October 22, 2020 6:55 PM

 An 8 pin decoder doesn't have enough connections to run clase lights in addition to the class lights. And I will bet the loco that the class lights are connected directly across the track pickups - on DC, that means the ones on the front would be green, and the ones in the back would be red. Change direction, and the red/green will switch. Not at all prototypical but that's what they did for the models. On DCC, this would mean the all would glow orange - the red and green on at the same time - well, actually alternating back and forth, but fast enough that all your eye sees is the orange.

                                         --Randy


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Posted by Overmod on Friday, October 23, 2020 11:02 AM

But Randy, didn't he say that after resetting it the lights came on correctly by direction with the locomotive presumably operating under DCC?  If this were due to permanent correction across track power wouldn't they always and forever be orange while DCC power was present?

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Posted by rrinker on Friday, October 23, 2020 11:35 AM

 True. Still wondering what decoder it is, only older versions had a DC/DCC jumper,. all newer releases have dual mode decoders. 

 What may be happening is that it's hooked up with 2 physical outputs, default is both off, but there's have to then be pull up resistors on both lines - this would mean both the red and green internal LEDs would light up making orange, on initial power up. As you cycle F2, it turns one, then the other, then both outputs on (which is a current sink to -). That all sounds like a job for a Loksound decoder, which has that capbility of mapping a function to cycle one or more physical outputs - it's used on some of the Rapido models to get Alco style class lights with the 3 individual lights per side - white, green, red, or all off. 

Why they would pick F2 is anyone's guess, since F2 is indeed normally a momentary function - though on NCE equipment the 2 button is latching, the horn button activates F2 as a momentary function (which can be remapped - the horn button can be other functions besides F2). So there is definitely a difference between pressing the 2 button vs the horn button on an NCE throttle. 

 If it really is an older decoder, then it's likely the operation of the class lights is somehow cobbled up from standard decoder behavior. The orange may just be a remnent of the board being switchable - I doubt in DC they are any more complex than wired right to the rails, where those wires go when the jumper is placed in the DCC position is anyone's guess.

                                       --Randy

 


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Posted by NVSRR on Friday, October 23, 2020 1:06 PM

My first thought would be to open it up and look for a small potential short somewhere.   I dont think he said if it ran or not.   Remember KAto's SD80 MAC and the slightly to long tab short circut.

 

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Posted by Avmus on Friday, October 23, 2020 2:37 PM

Folks, I appreciate this so much!!!! I am not new to the hobby, but certainly new to DCC. To clarify a few things, the engine does run. It runs fine except in reverse there is some bad vibration around speed step 4 that goes away around speed step 5. I think it is the shell. I am so hesitant to take the shell off as it is so hard to get back on. It came running DC, so there was a jumper that I had to unplug and then plug in to a different configuration, if that makes sense. I am pretty sure it is the 2003 New Haven#596 HO H15-44-Early Body & Cab, W/Sill Mounted Handrails 9528 I tried resetting with CV value 8 on CV 8. I think I read on an online manual that 33 resets everything but the speed table I think. When I power my system up the class lights do glow orange which I guess is both the red and green as someone pointed out. They will go red or green depending on direction after I push F2. The mystery continues.

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Posted by rrinker on Friday, October 23, 2020 11:23 PM

 Looks liek there's not much you can do:

https://shop.atlasrr.com/t-h15configvar.aspx

CV54 controls which F key works the marker lights, but that's all you cna change - it can be anything from F1 to F8, default is F2.

Factory reset is set CV8=33 on this decoder.

Full loco manual (includes the CV list linked above):

http://download.atlasrr.com/pdf/HO_H15-44Manual_Atlas.pdf

Doesn't say anything about the markers coming on orange. 

Instructions for removing the shell say it's just a friction fit and all you have to do is disconnect the handrails from the cab, and it should lift off, with maybe some rocking while holding the loco by the fuel tank.

                             --Randy

 


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Posted by tstage on Saturday, October 24, 2020 12:41 AM

Before I switched out the Lenz 345 decoder that came with my NYC H16-44 for a TCS A6X, the red/green LED classification lights changed with the direction button.  I don't ever remember the two aspects activating simultaneously.

Tom

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Posted by Avmus on Saturday, October 24, 2020 9:11 AM

So here is a link that demonstrates the entire issue. Again I appreciate all of the assistance.https://youtu.be/B_qQv6SEP1o

Randy, Thanks so much for the info. Those handrails drive me nuts.

Tom, I am thinking the way to go based on your post would be a different decoder. Not thrilled with this one for other reasons as well. I looked up the A6X. How do you like it? Any alternatives? I am partial to digitrax since I have several already and am some what familiar. 

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Posted by tstage on Saturday, October 24, 2020 9:38 AM

TCS is my go-to motor-only decoder brand.  The A6X is an identical board replacement for the Lenz decoder that came with the Atlas H16-44.  Maybe Digitrax has something similiar?

I love the TCS decoders for their excellent motor control.  The 6-functions with the A6X allowed me independent contol of the front & rear classificaion lights, as described earlier in the thread.

If you did go with another decoder you'll need to swap all the wires from one decoder to the other.  The bi-color LEDs have three and the incandescent headlights have two.  So, including the motor and track pick wires, labeling everything is important.

I actually used a label maker to label the A6X decoder before I started swapping wires - just so everything was clear in my mind.  I also solder the wires to the end contacts of the decoder instead of using those temperamental plastic caps to hold the wires in place.

I've been very happy with the A6X decoder.  I love being able to control the front & rear classification lights independently thru remapping and they are not dependent on the direction button.

Tom

P.S. John, I'll see if I can't post a photo of the original Lenz decoder inside my H16-44, as well as the replacement A6X sometime later today.

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Posted by Avmus on Saturday, October 24, 2020 12:06 PM

Tom,

Thanks so much. Great advice. Appreciate it!

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Posted by tstage on Saturday, October 24, 2020 7:06 PM

John,

Here's the photo of the Lenz "345" decoder that originally came with the Atlas H16-44 - minus the front & rear incandescent headlights: (Click images to enlarge)

The classification LEDs and headlights are wired to pads along the long side of the decoder and some of the end tabs.  It makes it look like a real rat's nest:

Below is the TCS A6X labeled (by me) and the motor and track pickup wires "temporarily" soldered/attached to the end tabs to verify it was working properly:

Once that was verified, I permanantly soldered those wires and the front & rear headlight wires, which I replaced with yeloglo LEDs:

Each bi-color classification light LED (not shown) was wired to one of the F1-F4 soldering pads (the four linear pads opposite the "G[ray]" & "O[range]" motor tabs) and the common.  This allowed me the independent control of the front & rear classification lights I was looking for.

HTH...

Tom

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Posted by rrinker on Saturday, October 24, 2020 7:47 PM

 I was thinkign they might be a single bi-color LED with light pipes at each end, but with 2 LEDs for the class lights at each end, it would appear from the OP's video that one of them is dead. 

 You do get orange if you turn on the functions for both red and green on the front (or rear), right? I can't imagine it would be any other way. While installing sound is beyond what the OP wants to do, Loksound does have the capability to use one F key for the front markers, which would cycle between off, red, and green, and another for the rear markers, doing the same. Lokpilot v5, motor only, has this same capability. However, there are only 2 outputs that support this, enough for markers on the front, or markers on the back, but not both.

                                                    --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

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Posted by Avmus on Sunday, October 25, 2020 9:17 AM

Tom,

Wow! Thank your for the detailed instructions. I have so many other projects currently that tackling this may take some time. The loco runs and the lights do work correctly with the exception of the orange upon power up. I am definitely saving this for the future. Thank you so MUCH!!!

Randy,

Thanks so much. The LED's do light red or green depending on direction. I just have to cycle through with F2. I don't think I have control over them separately so I can't put both green and red on simultaneously. Pardon my ignorance. 

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Posted by rrinker on Sunday, October 25, 2020 12:50 PM

 No, with the decoder that came with the loco, they can be either on or off. Red or green is determined by direction of travel. The only thing you can change is which function turns them on or off - F2 is default but as the instructions show, you can make it anything, F0-F8. 

 Unless they all do it, it seems strange they power up orange - as if there is no directional information received at first. Do they stay orange if you start moving? That doesn't necessarily prove anything though. It might be worthwhile to move them to F3, due to the dual nature of F2 on NCE, where the horn button is F2 momentary and the 2 button is F2 latched. F3 is just a normal on/off latched function. 

                                       --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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