Hello:
I need some advice on what DCC system to purchase. I had a simple, small 4 x 6 layout about 10 years ago with one engine and used the prodigy system. I am now building a new ho scale integrated steel mill switching layout. Size will be 10 x 30. It will include a double - tracked mainline loop for continuous running of through freights for train watching, and the mill, with lots of switching. Sort of two layouts in one. I'd like to just use manual ground throws. I plan on running no more than 6 - 7 engines at once...maybe 4 - 5 mu'd on the main and 3 switchers at the mill. There will be a lot of lighting of buildings and accessories on the layout. I plan on having the room lights wired on one breaker and the outlets in the room wired on another breaker, to keep the power draw manageable.
All that being said, I have no idea what system to get for a layout this size. I assume I will need boosters and have power blocks running off the main bus line (?) Probably a dedicated power source for the lighting of buildings (?) I have read Larry Puckett's Wiring Your Model Railroad, and find myself more confused about what system to get than ever before. I have researched the products from Railpro, Digitrax, Lenz, etc. but, really don't know what to get...I feel one of their starter kits might be too small for my needs or am I overthinking this?
Any suggestions from you pros out there would be greatly appreciated. Stay safe & healthy.
Is there something wrong with your Prodigy, the one I have would do what your planning.Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
You might find a booster useful, but not necessarily. If you can centrally spot your main station, and run two small buses in opposite directions, you'd only need about 25' to go around either direction, and that will not need a booster....UNLESS...what goes on at the far ends is very busy, with high demand, or your bus wires are a bit stingy, say in the 16 gauge or higher range. Most of us opt for 14 household wire or 12 gauge. Voltage losses over those gauges are minimal even at 30 feet.
What should factor is the gauge, voltage loss over distance (if minimal it keeps the DCC signal and short detection very robust), and amperage requirement based on demand. Figure about 0.5 amps per locomotive drawing close to 3 oz at the drawbar/rear coupler. What does your Prodigy put out of its termals? Just add up all the engines active at any one time, go big, and then decide if you need a new system or a booster.
Be forewarned, this thread will start a feeding frenzy among forum members who will tout their favorite system. So, to save you the time and trouble of reading through all of these competitive posts, do yourself a favor and buy the NCE wireless 5 amp Power Pro system. That is the one that I own, and it provides user friendly, flawless performance. It is highly versatile, and it will satisfy all of your needs.
Rich
Alton Junction
Sounds like the starter sets may be a bit on the weak side for your max locos running. A 5 amp system would cover that. Either Digitrax or NCE are fine products.
First of all, to the forum.
As a rule of thumb, you want power to your accessory lighting and switch machine running off a separate power source, other than the DCC track power. Depending on your needs, wall warts or laptop computer power cables can work. I am running a DC bus for building lighting. There are cheap "buck converters' on ebay, where you can feed 12 v in and tune it to deliver 3 v out for LED lighting.
Maybe I took away the wrong impression from the DCC books, but it looked like to me, one would need multiple boosters to power multiple power districts. Maybe that is true if you are building are large club size layout with multiple operators. You don't want one derailment and short to knock out 6 other guys running trains.
In your case a booster powering several PSX circuit breakers would do the job.
I'm not sure how much support there is for Lenz in the US. I would stick to Digitrax or NCE. I agree with Rich, which system is a religious topic, which flies under the moderators radar. I'm an NCE guy but would not call anyone who chose Digitrax an enemy of the state. And it would be the same if I were a Digitrax guy and you chose NCE.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
No, it's just 12 years old and I figured obsolete by now.
UPfan No, it's just 12 years old and I figured obsolete by now.
My ancient locomotives (most 40 to 50+ yrs) have newer can motors and draw the about the same current as newer locomotives (last 20 years or so). My 12 YR old Prodigy easily handles 5 heavy weight locomotives some with dual can motors on 3½% grades on my layout. I added from 10 to 14 ounces of weight to all of my most run locomotives and several ounces in my now overweight rolling stock.Your Prodigy should work fine, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
Like Mel, my older Prodigy Advance (not squared) system continues to serve my 10' by 19' double deck layout quite well. I recently hosted an operating session and had as many as four trains (as many as six locos with consists) running simultaneously including several locos with sound. I would recommend upgrading your current system with the MRC WiFi module as it will allow up to 8 smart devices to be used as wireless throttles. The WiFi module is cheaper than one MRC wireless throttle, works well and is a no-brainer to install. Just plug and play!
Hornblower
Hi, and welcome! Rich is correct, you will see many weigh in with their favorite, and then proves his point with his favorite (NCE). That's a good choice - but really, they all probably are as well. It really comes down to personal preference.
I am going to suggest what I currently have - EasyDCC from CVP products. And I've owned NCE, DigiTrax and Prodigy in the past. They are all good systems.
In your proposed setup, the EasyDCC fixed panel will give you 2 throttles to handle the 2 mainline loops you plan, including MU'd consists. I've also found that the main (fixed) panel handles programming on the main easily, and I don't use a dedicated programming track.
I then would suggest their digital wireless receiver, and as many (one receiver handles up to 8) wireless handheld throttles as you require to use for your switching operations.
http://cvpusa.com/easydcc_wireless_throttle.php
CVP has been very responsive to my pre- and post- purchase questions via email.
So that's my opinion for a "start fresh" new system. But agree with Mel and Hornblower, the Prodigy you have will work just fine, with some additional throttles.
For lighting and accessory power, as others have said, I would (and do) keep this separate from DCC power.
Ed
UPfan,I don't know the specs of your Prodigy system, but I can tell you that you probably don't need a second booster no matter which system you get.For example, I had a 25' x 50' layout with a 200' double track mainline and I ran with up to six guys: 2 switchers, 2 local freights, 1 passenger, & 1 freight operator so around 8 engines at the same time. My DCC system was the original Digitrax Zephyr (DCS50...now it's the DCS52), which could handle 10 active addresses & throttles and had a 2.5amp capacity. My Zephyr was located 1/4 from one end, meaning I had a 50' run of wire one way and 150' run the other way using 14AWG wire and 22AWG feeders every 9 feet.I had absolutely no problems running my layout with just this base starter set. I had no boosters, just the starter system.One thing I will mention that's important is that I didn't have a lot of sound engines (or lit passenger cars). If you plan to have all sound-equipped engines, you may have to get a booster or at least a way to isolate half the layout. See, sound engines have capacitors and they all want to charge instantly upon start up. This can cause the circuit breaker on your system to trip and it won't reset until you remove some engines with capacitors from the circuit. After the capacitors charge, the sound engines will run normally at much lower current, but charging those caps in the first split second can cause problems. Isolating half your layout means you can charge the first half, then turn on the other half rather than all at once. This is one of those problems you can't be sure you're going to get until you try it.Of course, if you don't have any sound engines, then a base starter set will work just fine for a layout of your described size.BTW, I wouldn't worry about your DCC system straining your 120VAC house wiring. Remember that as voltage decreases through a transformer, amperage increases. Most DCC systems have a 5 amp capacity but that's at the 14 volt output side. The input side is only 0.75 amps at 120VAC. You'd have to have twenty 5 amp @ 14 volt power supplies before you got to 15 amps @ 120 volts.
I have a Lenz system, and it has served me well. I have a good-sized room-filling layout. I have plenty of DCC power with just the original system. It's 15 years old, and still runs fine. I might need a new throttle, as mine is wearing out. I also have a pair of CVP wireless throttles, which do a good job.
But, Lenz has done little to upgrade their product since I bought it, and they have fallen behind in some ways. For example, they do not have a wireless option of their own, and I was fortunate that CVP builds a compatible adapter box.
If you have a club, you might look into what they use. Then, your throttles will be compatible with theirs.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
UPfan,
Everyone has their favorites (I'm a CVP Easy DCC user) - My usual advice is to try to put your hands on the various systems and try them out before you by them. I like the feel of the CVP wireless throttle in my hand and how the system works - others I'm sure, might prefer something else. It is somewhat a matter of personal preference. In the pandemic trying out systems may be a bit more difficult.
All of the major systems work well and will provide you with reliable train operation. I would definitely go with wireless and skip the extra boosters until you get the system set up and see if you need them.
Have fun,
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
Actually, it's not so much that Lenz hasn't updated anything, it's that they don't seem to bother promoting it in the US market. Check out their web site - they've upodated nearly everything - new command station, new boosters, even new throttles. I guess they've more or less conceded the US market to the US companies like Digitrax and NCE.
Can't go wrong with either one. Both are fully expandable should you need more later (no surplus leftover components when upgrading). Each has things to recommend it - NCE has better consisting, Digitrax has a much more robust command bus. However with the TCS UWT-100, there is yet another option which arguably does consisting even better, and this throttle works with any system that has a WiFi interface - either a native device or via JMRI.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
First, in choosing a system you need to decide what's important to you, and how you're going to use the system. If your layout is spread out, a walk-around system probably would be good. You can do that by having plug-ins around the layout, or invest in a radio / wireless (or now, Wi-fi) system. If you use Decoder Pro on your PC to program your decoders, you may not be that worried about how easy a DCC system's programming works.
Second, keep in mind is virtually all DCC systems are set up for add-ons. You don't have to buy everything up front. Buy the main system from whichever manufacturer you choose and first and try it. Different systems have a different amount of power in their base systems, but if you choose a system and later find you need more power capability, you can always add a booster. Same with adding walk-around control.