Have K4 kit with skew wound DC 71 motor. Any suggestions for decoder or possible motor exchange to convert to DCC. Have never attempted my own installs. Thanks Andy
The motor will have to be isolated - Bowser used to offer a replacement that was isolated, not sure if it's still available or not. It was a direct replacement, so no fooling around with motor mounts to get the right alignment, so that would be the easiest solution. A completely different lower current motor is an option but that will require some mechanical work to get it fitted.
Current draw of the DC-71 type motor will mean using a full HO decoder - most are rated 1.5 amps continuous, 2 amps max, which should be plenty if the loco runs well - mechanism broken in, no binding rods, etc. Probably forget the micro size decoders, but there is plenty of room if you install the decoder in the tender.
If using the Bowser repalcement motor, it's pretty simple - orange and grey wires to the motor brushes, red to the pickup lead from the right rail, in the form of a brass screw driven into the chassis of the loco, and black to the wire that used to connect to the motor. If there's a headlight or you want a headlight, best to repalce the incandescent bulb with a golden-white LED, with a 1K or higher resistor. Connect to the white (-) and blue (+) wire of the decoder. That's pretty much it. There seem to be very few if any installation pictures of others doing these - guess not too many Bowser loco owners use DCC.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinker....There seem to be very few if any installation pictures of others doing these - guess not too many Bowser loco owners use DCC.
While my layout is strictly DC, I did do a DCC installation in a Bowser A-5 (0-4-0) switcher.
This came about when a friend in the U.S. was looking for one of those locomotives, and I knew another friend, here in Canada, who had the Bowser kit for that loco. I also knew that he had bought it in an estate lot, with a number of other Bowser kits (including two Challengers), and at a very good price. (His interest was in saving those kits from being discarded, and he often buys older stuff at train shows, usually from older modellers trying to sell their now-deceased friends' collections. He has a pretty good stash of stuff and an attitude (for friends) that if you want it, it's yours. I broached the subject of my American friend's interest (he was quite willing to pay), and on my next visit, the A-5 kit was waiting for me. I offered him, on behalf of my American friend, a reasonable sum, and his reply was, "Do you want it?" I replied, "No, but my friend does, and he's willing to pay for it." "Well, I won't sell it to him!...However, since he's your friend, he's my friend, too, so you can have it, and give it to him!"
I pretty-well knew beforehand that this would be the ritual, as I had been though it with him before, but I wanted to make it very clear that my American friend wasn't looking for freebies.
Anyway, the kit turned out to be Bowser's latest version of the A-5, with a can motor and a bag of brass castings for superdetailing the model.
On my next visit to the States (sadly curtailed this year due to our countries' mutually-agreed-upon border closures) I was given a suitable decoder, so that I could start construction.I did consult with a couple of DCC users on my home Forum, for some advice, as I was totally unfamiliar with DCC.
Once I was able to do the DCC installation, the rest was pretty easy. I did add all-wheel pick-up to both loco...
...and tender....
...but had to modify the cast metal tender somewhat to accommodate the decoder, which included removing one of the posts used for mounting the trucks. I lined the interior of the tender's shell with styrene, then made a floor using sheet styrene...
...and a separate platform for the decoder...
...and also installed LEDs....
in loco and tender...
I did add some weight in the loco's smokebox and the under-cab air tanks, the latter visible in the first photo.Working from a couple of prototype photos, I modified the walkway on the engineer's side of the boiler...
...and added a faux frame extension under the cab, along with brakeshoes on the rear drivers (the motor and valve gear hanger prevented adding them on the lead drivers....
Paint (Pollyscale DGLE) and lettering followed...
Since one of the photos used for matching the details was of the real 713, I weathered the model accordingly, with both the "PENNSYLVANIA" and "713" lettering masked-off during the weathering process, as both, on the real one, had been wiped clean of dirt and grime, as noted by the photographer...
The finished model was delivered last year, and is running fine.I'm now working on a decoder installation for my generous friend, who wishes to try "dead rail" operation (his layout is strictly DC). The loco it an older Mantua Pacific, modified into a Hudson, with a vestibule cab.
Wayne
Not to stray from the topic but Wayne, your work is just breathtakingly stunning.
As Bowser still retains some parts inventory on hand (they've been blowing out steam loco parts in the retail store) there is still a possibility that they might, might have the isolated motor on hand. It would be worth a telephone call--and ask for Lee English, prior to doing it the more difficult way.
I could be wrong, but something like the motor--as said above--not many people may have asked for, and it sounds like it would be one of the last items added to their now discontinued product line--that is why a phone call to Lee couldn't hurt.
John
Thanks for your generous comment, Bill. It's much appreciated.
Andy, I have a Bowser K4 that I added a decoder to many years ago. I installed the updated motor and to be honest I was never totally happy with my results, I also had a front truck issue Causing derailments.
I tinkered and tinkered to get it running smoothly but was never happy. My suggestion would be to install the new motor and get it aligned right to run smooth before added a decoder. I believe the screw that holds the motor in place has to be swapped out for a nylon screw as part of the motor isolation.
You will have one heck of a pulling loco.
Regretably my issues with this loco made it end up on a shelf, if you have no luck finding a motor reach out to me.
If using the Pittman style motor, ther eshould be no need to use a nulon screw. If you look at the two brush springs on top, with the stock motor, one had a fiber insulator (side where the wire from the tender connects), the other just is metal right to the motor frame. The DCC version of the motor adds the insulator to the other brush. You can actually do that yourself if the replacement motor is no longer available.
With a permanent magnet DC motor, it's the brushes that need to be isolated from the track pickups. The frame of the motor itself does not matter, unless there is no way to insulate the brush holder from the motor frame.
rrinkerThe DCC version of the motor adds the insulator to the other brush. You can actually do that yourself if the replacement motor is no longer available.
Exactly what I did to this Alco Models PRR DD1:
DD1-DCC1 by Edmund, on Flickr
Don't use something as soft as PVC wire insulation. I believe it would eventually wear through. The red sleeves in my photo are some type of resin fiber.
Note you can see the gray and orange decoder wires soldered directly to the brush holders:
DD1-DCC2 by Edmund, on Flickr
The open frame motors shown here ran exceptionally well so I decided to retain them. Still running well two years later
Good Luck, Ed
Wayne et al: Many thanks. And the A5 is stunning. I will endeavor to document my efforts with photos and let you know how it turns out. Adding a new tender subfloor is a great idea. Best regards, Andy
Many thanks. You are all very gracious. Blessings. andy
DoctorWayne
If I may ask? How did you attach the power strips to the tender trucks?
Thanks T.C.
T.C.How did you attach the power strips to the tender trucks?
The small pieces of circuit board to which the wheel wipers are soldered, is double-sided copper-clad, so they're simply soldered to the trucks' brass bolsters.
If you wish to add wheel wipers and don't have the double-sided stuff handy, contact cement should work, too.
doctorwayne Thanks I didint realize they were brass, I do the same on plastic trucks only I use screws. Thought maybe you had some super type glue or something. T.C. T.C. How did you attach the power strips to the tender trucks? The small pieces of circuit board to which the wheel wipers are soldered, is double-sided copper-clad, so they're simply soldered to the trucks' brass bolsters. If you wish to add wheel wipers and don't have the double-sided stuff handy, contact cement should work, too. Wayne
Thanks I didint realize they were brass, I do the same on plastic trucks only I use screws.
Thought maybe you had some super type glue or something.
T.C.
T.C. How did you attach the power strips to the tender trucks?
A recent video by the DCC Guy (Larry Puckett) on YouTube shows another way to do it - ESU sells pickup wipers to mount on trucks. Used out of the packagem, they block the truck mounting screw, so removing the truck after installing them would be difficult. Larry shows how he cuts them in half and removes a bit of the material to keep the screw accessible. Just solder wires to them and run said wires into the shell and you're all set.
rrinker If using the Pittman style motor, ther eshould be no need to use a nulon screw. If you look at the two brush springs on top, with the stock motor, one had a fiber insulator (side where the wire from the tender connects), the other just is metal right to the motor frame. The DCC version of the motor adds the insulator to the other brush. You can actually do that yourself if the replacement motor is no longer available. With a permanent magnet DC motor, it's the brushes that need to be isolated from the track pickups. The frame of the motor itself does not matter, unless there is no way to insulate the brush holder from the motor frame. --Randy
I have a Bowser K4 that I added DCC to. It is not difficult. It was an older kit, with a lead boiler and a brass frame.
A new can motor is good, but they can be very difficult to install in these old locos. You will need to make a new motor mount to hold the motor in the correct position.
If it has a DC-71 motor, the easiest thing to do is try to rebuild the current motor to work with DCC. Bowser makes a fiber brush plate #1-22193 that isolates the right hand brush from the motor frame:
http://www.bowserorders.com/.sc/ms/dd/ee/14791324/Bowser%20FIBER%20BRUSH%20PLATE%20W%5E2FBEND%20for%20DCC
You can then solder the gray and orange leads to the motor brushes:
The other improvement involves replacing the magnet with supermagnets. Micromark, K&J, and CMS all sell supermagnets. I got 1/2 x 1/4 x 1/8 magnets, and stack them up. You will need a small shim for Bowser DC-71 motors:
That, and oiling the motor and cleaning the commutator, will make an old motor run much better.
I put the decoder in the tender, and soldered the black lead to a brass screw in the frame. I soldered the red lead to the locomotive frame, but a screw would work as well.
On my friend's layout:
Gary
garyaOn my friend's layout:
Not sure why the video won't play.
https://youtu.be/Hd0L-S2AOBc
I built a Bowser I1sa years ago and kept the DC71 motor. Isolating the brushes is not hard. I used insulation from stripped wire ends. I also did the super magnets. In a tug of war it will out pull both of my Broadway Limited I1sa. I do the same motor mods to my brass decoder installs. The scew wound motor will out perform the straight wound open frame motors.
All I have to say is try it. I believe you will be happy with the results.
Pete.
wrench567 I built a Bowser I1sa years ago and kept the DC71 motor. Isolating the brushes is not hard. I used insulation from stripped wire ends. I also did the super magnets. In a tug of war it will out pull both of my Broadway Limited I1sa. I do the same motor mods to my brass decoder installs. The scew wound motor will out perform the straight wound open frame motors. All I have to say is try it. I believe you will be happy with the results. Pete.
Hi all, new poster here. I have been diligently following everything I can find online to build a Bowser Pacific kit, and its going well. However, I can't for my life figure out how to isolate the DC-71 as above with stripped wire ends or other material. I am just not figuring out the vision. Does anyone have a picture of what it looks like? The non-DC 71 motor above looks fairly straightforward, but since the 71 has a spiral spring I just can't figure it out. Thank you!
Nick
installed new skew wound motor and new brass worm. Runs very quiet and motor IS isolated from the frame. Now on to the current pick up. Should I use tender trucks, driviers, neither or combination. Have bought ESU pick ups, which I will cut in half to install. Thanks Andy
I recently converted a Bowser I1 and it had very little problem with pickup using the stock pick up (one side drivers and one side tender trucks) I did have a little problem at slow speeds crossing a somewhat uneven double 90 degree crossing so I added a wiper to the rear tender truck to add pickup from both rails. I'm now very pleased with it's performance even with the 40 year old stock motor.
I plan on doing a 60+ year old Penn Line E6 soon.
..........Paul
I feel that you can't in no way have too many pickups. Reliable electrical conductivity can't be too bad.
In my experience, all-wheel power pickup on the tender is sufficient. Those Bowser tenders provide enough weight for reliable power.
Simon